Grain Cart and Drawbar requirements.

[IHandJDman 102]

Looking to add a 500ish bushel grain cart to the farm.  It would mostly go behind a 1086 but also sometimes a 1456.  Would I need to beef up or support the drawbar on either tractor?  Thanks.

[Missouri Mule 1,702]

11 minutes ago, IHandJDman said:

Looking to add a 500ish bushel grain cart to the farm.  It would mostly go behind a 1086 but also sometimes a 1456.  Would I need to beef up or support the drawbar on either tractor?  Thanks.

We run a 400bu cart on standard drawbar. I would think you would be fine, but someone else will know better possibly. There was a good thread a while back on how to beef up the drawbar 

[ksfarmdude 570]

3 hours ago, IHandJDman said:

Looking to add a 500ish bushel grain cart to the farm.  It would mostly go behind a 1086 but also sometimes a 1456.  Would I need to beef up or support the drawbar on either tractor?  Thanks.

No problem we've run 550 bu cart on ours no sweat 

[dumbfarmer 248]

Solid drawbar or 2 piece? I tried our 1066 with the 2 piece on a John Deere 500 bu cart and chickened out flexed too much for me. I put it on the 1466 with the 1 piece for a couple years until we got the 7140

[TeachersPet1066 557]

Great post:

 I built one this summer for the 986 and it was a great peace of mind.  Added eyelets for safety chains as well.

[ksfarmdude 570]

7 hours ago, dumbfarmer said:

Solid drawbar or 2 piece? I tried our 1066 with the 2 piece on a John Deere 500 bu cart and chickened out flexed too much for me. I put it on the 1466 with the 1 piece for a couple years until we got the 7140

Mine is a solid drawbar really stout too

[Thesd5488 376]

I always slide them in some had 600 bushel on 806 1456 1200 bu on 1566 they all held up fine

[INTERNATIONAL 1466 1,775]

No problem with that size cart. It will be fine.

[dumbfarmer 248]

17 hours ago, Thesd5488 said:

I always slide them in some had 600 bushel on 806 1456 1200 bu on 1566 they all held up fine

My jd cart the pto shaft is short you must leave the drawbar on standard length 

[Cliff Neubauer 159]

When we had a Brent 472 behind our 1086 we slid the tractor drawbar in, had to shorten the PTO shaft but it worked good.

[leeave96 97]

What kind of weight is being placed on these draw bars with the grain carts?

[bitty 6,097]

21 hours ago, dumbfarmer said:

My jd cart the pto shaft is short you must leave the drawbar on standard length 

 

On 12/2/2019 at 10:26 PM, Thesd5488 said:

I always slide them in some had 600 bushel on 806 1456 1200 bu on 1566 they all held up fine

If slid in the PTO geometry gets incorrect fast also while turning

[TP from Central PA 3,417]

2 hours ago, bitty said:

 

If slid in the PTO geometry gets incorrect fast also while turning

As long as it can telescope and collapse on turns it will be ok as it won't be running, I never have, nor do I know anyone who ever unloads a grain cart on a tight turn, nearly all the time the tractor and cart are dead straight. 

[fspring 5]

We run a jd 500 grain cart on a regular jd 4450. But when loaded we go slow.....

[Reichow7120 1,962]

2 hours ago, TP from Central PA said:

As long as it can telescope and collapse on turns it will be ok as it won't be running, I never have, nor do I know anyone who ever unloads a grain cart on a tight turn, nearly all the time the tractor and cart are dead straight. 

×2. Ive never seen anyone unload on a tight turn either.

[Bdse25 311]

That’s till the hired hand forgets to turn it off and cranks the wheel to scoot the cart over a foot or two........  if it can happen it will happen 

[TP from Central PA 3,417]

57 minutes ago, Bdse25 said:

That’s till the hired hand forgets to turn it off and cranks the wheel to scoot the cart over a foot or two........  if it can happen it will happen 

I suppose, but that would be some real dandy help if they didn't hear the driveline knocking before things break??????  

[bitty 6,097]

30 minutes ago, TP from Central PA said:

I suppose, but that would be some real dandy help if they didn't hear the driveline knocking before things break??????  

You live in a bubble ..... I know people that could do that very thing and NEVER notice it. So many people as a matter of fact I can't count them on my fingers

It wouldn't take very much of an angle if the front PTO U-joint is almost above the drawbar pin hole to make a bad chatter. That would require a CV at the front to properly set up. 

 

Biggest thing that shortening the drawbar up is it will jackknife the hitch against the tires much sooner than the proper geometry set up from the factory

[Reichow7120 1,962]

6 minutes ago, TP from Central PA said:

I suppose, but that would be some real dandy help if they didn't hear the driveline knocking before things break??????  

1 hour ago, Bdse25 said:

That’s till the hired hand forgets to turn it off and cranks the wheel to scoot the cart over a foot or two........  if it can happen it will happen 

If that's the case then that hired help is truly one in a million. Literally someone who can break a anvil with a rubber mallet and then break the mallet with a kid's Playskool hammer.

When the dumpster fire known as Boerson Farms was still going strong before the wheels fell off. They employed some real winners. Literally a body with a pulse to fill a seat types. I never saw anything like that with the grain carts. Of course everything was new in that case so there was none of this to get by stuff happened. 

[Big Steve 37]

You can help support the drawbar by running a heavy log chain around the 3point arms and under the drawbar with the arms all the way up adjust the 3pt arm turnbuckles till the drawbar is just off the bottom plate that way when the tongue  weight comes on the 3pt helps carry the weight and help can't  raise the 3pt too much  because  it is already all the way up.

[Matt Kirsch 1,008]

8 hours ago, Reichow7120 said:

If that's the case then that hired help is truly one in a million.

More like 987,636 in a million... Good help is hard to find, and when you do find them they never last long because they're smart and move on to bigger and better quickly.

[TP from Central PA 3,417]

9 hours ago, bitty said:

You live in a bubble ..... I know people that could do that very thing and NEVER notice it. So many people as a matter of fact I can't count them on my fingers

Nobody lives in a bubble........idiots just don't run or even get close to anything here.  Working on stuff for the cannery I learned one thing, just because it's warm, has two hands, two legs, does not mean it is a equipment operator.   They would have been further ahead a lot 'er most of time just parking things until real operators were available than using a moving bobble head as it usually was not only sitting as it would have been anyhow, but it was busted severely as well.........

[1480x3 455]

19 hours ago, leeave96 said:

What kind of weight is being placed on these draw bars with the grain carts?

My owners manual says 2990 LB loaded hitch wt for my Kinze 400, that is LEVEL full or corn. I have added 16 in sides to that. Book also lists specs for the 600 cart with hitch wt at 3550. I use a homemade support on my 06,56,66, 86, & 88 tractors on this cart. Have snapped 2   88 drawbars but not on cart, on disc mowers. When I used the cart on my 7250 I slid the drawbar in 1 hole as it got light on the front but drawbar was plenty strong.  There are no specs in my book on the 800 cart even though the book covers the 400, 600, & 800 models

[Finney 1,222]

Local megs dairy broke the rear end housing on a 200hp Deere pulling a huge manure tank. It broke where the drawbar support bolts to the rear-end housing.  They called me to look at it. The tank had a diagram on the front of it showing a cross bar on the lift arms with a cable/chain going down to the drawbar. I asked them about it and they said it came with the tank but didn't want to fool with it. I told them that the 20 minute's to put it on would probably be a lot cheaper than the housing was gonna be. I think it cost them close to 10,000 to get it fixed.  

[Reichow7120 1,962]

That's the way it works here. When growing up we couldn't afford help anyway so i got put to work young. With my Dad and my Grandpa overseeing me you did it right or there was **** to pay. Especially Grandpa. You didn't mess with him until you knew what you were doing and had grown a set. He could be very ill tempered and me and him didn't have a good relationship to begin with, but damn it you knew what you were doing by the time he was done with you.

Like was stated above. Just because it has a pulse doesn't mean it's a equipment operator anymore than me gluing feathers to me and flapping my arms like a bird makes me a bird. You think about it, by the time you follow a dips--t hand around and either make sure he's doing the job or doing it correctly or you spend your time correcting all the stuff he did wrong and fix all the stuff that he broke while doing it, are you really any further ahead? I look at it is if that help is that bad it is better to take longer and do it with what you have or yourself than to deal with that. Life is too short to have to do everything twice. If the help is decent, that's a whole different story.

Back to the grain carts. If he has the tractor and cart jackknifed that hard he's going to be loading whatever it is very sloppy. Unless it is a small cart or something that is short he is either going to have to straighten it out or spill grain as he moves forward. Our trailer is 41 ft long and if we had a cart big enough to fill the truck in one fill (we don't have a cart that big) those big augers will spill a lot of grain fast if you are that inattentive.

The other thing is guys who are shortening PTO shafts are usually to cheap or to broke to afford help anyway. My experience is the BTO are the ones hiring the true dimwits and usually they are running new stuff so they aren't modifying stuff on it to begin with.