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Hot allis


shieldslx

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Gentlemen,

I was wondering, because you all are an impartial group, if you could help me.  I have... 7080 AC,7060 AC,220 AC,700 AC, 190XT AC, 1950T Oliver, Waiting on delivery of 2255 Oliver, G1355MM (585), G900 MM,g1000 vista MM, 5000 ford 7600 ford and a host of smaller tractors.  2 combines.. 1466 IH with the 436.I have to say the 436 IH is one of the finer diesels I've ever been around, starts great and torque out the a**.  I will begin by saying these tractors are not mine but my brothers(except the 220 which is mine but he uses).  We know a significant amount about diesels, and I can tell you that the AC's (426, not 301) run hot and will not start below 50 degrees without a heater.  They also have no torque below 2000 rpm, if the 7080 falls to 1900 rpm you have to shift down immediately or you will choke it out. To a lesser extent the 7060 is the same way.  The 7080 has a upgraded turbo and inlet pipe and does a better job of not getting hot, but still chokes out.  My brother is absolutely now convinced that is just the way they are.  Everyone at the Allis forum acts like I am crazy or may pm program sucks, but who else runs synthetic rotella.  The answers include...blow out the radiator, bad gaskets on exhaust or intake, injectors backwards or set incorrectly, pump timing.  I can assure you these are all correct.  After this exhaustive post, is there any help, or from an impartial jury, are these tractors to be relegated to a life of hanger queens?

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Wear and tear have a lot to do with how an engine starts performs. If these are high-houred tractors of unknown provenance (i.e. purchased used, no history) they may simply need an overhaul.

It's for sure NOT your choice of oil. I'm not saying your oil is the best choice, but as long as the oil is the right viscosity for the conditions, it won't affect the power output of the engine.

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The pumps have both been redone and we have confirmed the crack pressure of the injectors, set at 19 degrees, I also took the valve lash on the top side of tolerance to simulate a wider lobe separation angle (moved back when it did nothing), I'm actually thinking about an offset cam key to get the intake and exhaust lobes operating sooner, 8 degrees should shift my powerband by 3-500 rpm... 

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I know you've said timing is OK, but honestly it sounds like a pump timing issue.  IDK the Allis engines, but I had a IH tractor that was doing all the above (Hard to start, ruh hot, no torque, smoke)...and finally found out the "rebuilt" injection pump was 17 deg out of time internally--even though all the marks were aligned!   If all your engines have been rebuilt by the same people, pumps worked on at the same shop, etc, might there be a common "error" in timing?  (this is not to blame anybody-- things happen)   Might be worth having a shop put a diesel timing "light" on the tractors and check ACTUAL timing, not what the scribe marks say. 

Ah, OK, you posted the above right as I wrote this....

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I am just looking for that "oh yeah, I had that problem too..." or "man that's just how they run".  When my dad was shoping around (before I was born) he talked to a couple of people who finally told him allis went out of business because the engines just wouldn't work hard all day.  the 1355 MM with the 585 is a beast at any rpm but its life is limited if you want to run it above 1900 rpm.  Hoping the 3150 cat in te 2255 he just bought is similar.

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Tell us a little more about how they are running hot.  How quick do they heat up, how hot is hot, what is the ambient temperature etc.  All helps point us in the right direction.  My first thought is that these tractors are old enough that the radiators may be in need of internal cleaning to remove deposits in the core tubes.  

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We have a 7030 my Daddy bought new, never runs hot unless radiator is plugged. The 81 model 7080 we had ran warm but not full out hot. The 77 model 7080 we had ran warm as well. The 81 model 7580 ran normal. The 77 7000 ran normal. The 84 8070 ran normal. They were good reliable tractors for us.

 

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Growing up dad had a D21for many years as well as later a 7040 for a short time and a 7060 they were all good tractors and ran all day long in the field doing heavy tillage in the spring. The thing about ac going out of business cause the engines wouldnt run hard all day long is baloney. Bad management and bad ag economy got em just like a lot of others. Oh i dont recall them running overly hot.

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My limited experience with 7000 series AC is keep them tached up . That's where they're happy . They are never going to lug with a 400 series IH engine. They're not made that way. Keep the shift cables right and the transmission maintained and learn to fly that thing the way it was designed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I ran a N5 for years with the 426. It always started great and didn’t run hot and had a ton of power. Has about 5k on the hour meter and is just pain wore out. Still starts good though, just no oil pressure after it warms up. I would think it’s something with timing or pump if you radiator is clean. Friend of mine has a 7580 and has played with the pump and is always fighting heat. 

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4 hours ago, shieldslx said:

Thanks for the reply.  Plus these engines have fresh overhauls in them. (well a few hundred hours) correct wear in procedures and no blowby.  Heads redone at a very reputable shop and a good sleeve kit. 

Was the radiator taken to radiator shop and hot tanked and pressure testedI’m only asking because cooling system is the cause of 70 % of engine failure. 
Make sure the wear belts are not slipping on water pump .
I don’t  clean the fins on my tractors as I should  before I work them hard. 
I need to take my radiator in ,it’s 

about all I can think of .

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Overhauled a 7080 years ago it still runs. The 7080 was a good tractor as are most allis. Neighbor had a 8010 that always started and I have been around others that started okay. That 7080 is pushing the limits of a Roosa pump for hp. The allis isn’t a ih but not bad either.

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We bought a brand new 8050 in 1987 and it never started that great and cold weather at all. Definitely had to use ether probably 40 degrees or more warmer then if we were starting our 1066. We had a 7020 and 7060 also none of those three had any kind of torque you could actually out work one with a stock 1066 . 

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4 hours ago, shieldslx said:

Thanks.

OK, ambient is 85-95 F, 

Radiators have been boiled multiple times

hot is boiling over

Has a hard time pulling itself up a steep hill @ 5 mph under 1900 rpm ( duals, weighted down)

This tells me it is an engine out of tune or time. Cam to crank timing? Pump timing? A 7080 should be timed at 22*, a timing light is no use timing a Roosa pump unless can fully load it. Seems like I already mentioned these things back on the other forum months ago, so must not have been it. 

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