1949 TD6 Crawler W/Loader Blade & Bucket

[DieselSmokeDangerousCurves]

  I'm new to this site and TD6's in general.  Bought mine in March 2019 and have used it several times here at my dad's for various earth moving projects. It starts very well, switches to diesel well and runs really good for as old as it is. I drive and work on semi-trucks, and am in the process of going thru 2 Farmall 560 D's one wide front and one narrow. (Would like to find another wide front axle), and a Farmall 460 gas. I'm also I'm familiar with most maintenance and repairs that usually accompany using equipment. That being said I'm not familiar with the non-pressurized cooling system used on my crawler and have several questions.

  #1. When using my crawler this summer I noticed that the Temp gauge never moved. So... I went online and bought the Indian replica gauge set that was specked for my happy lil diesel/gas motor.                 NOTE: Temp and Amp Gauge bolt in and have built in lights I need to wire in someday, Oil gauge would not work as it did not have right adapter for the compression style fitting used on this                  system.  I am still looking for an adapter.   

        After changing out the gauges I used the machine again and still the temp gauge never moved.  I am figuring that the thermostat is either missing, bad, or rusted up.  The 1949 cooling system is           a non-pressurized system with a weep hole built into the bottom of the the top part of the radiator and instead of a sealed radiator cap it has the beveled washer with a screw down clamp. 

       The parts manual offers 2 types of thermostats. A 165 deg - 190 deg and a low boiling point special order 130 deg-155 deg thermostat. Does anyone know which one to use on the non-                           pressurized machines?

#2.  The loader/blade hyd. controls are a pain to use as there is no float position, has any one converted their's to a control unit with the float position? If so, what did you use?

#3  Where can i find a 540 PTO adapter, I am watching salvage yards and other areas, but being this model came with a front PTO for the loader is there even a shaft to hook it up to on the back? I              haven't took off the back cover to check yet as I'm not sure if any fluid will run out.

My TD6 is in really nice shape but needs a lot of TLC in certain areas like track tensionors are rusty, the left upper ram rod wiper is leaking,  the steering/ brake adjustments need to be gone thru, the flywheel might have a chipped tooth being I have to use a pipe wrench to turn the motor a lil when it stops in a certain spot,the left rear drive gear has been welded on a few teeth but looks functional, and I'd like to fix the grill and find side panels for it. I also have no clue what all needs to be greased and lubed. The manual makes no sense in some areas. I have read your posts regarding a lube bucket but have no idea were that is used, I also have a grease gun adapter that came with it that I believe is supposed to be used on maybe the rollers or idlers?  The last owner replaced the radiator core with a brand new one recently, and replaced the filters on the diesel side except the cleaning of the sediment bowl. What motor oil should be used in Wisconsin year round? I am using a fuel and gas additive because of the low sulfur of today's fuel and no lead gas, and i do NOT use any ethanol. It also came with a bucket which needs a new scraper blade and some welding. Any other things i should go thru other than normal maintenance? I did clean out the gunk from the air filter and put in new oil also. And I still need to put on a new voltage regulator as when hooking up one wire on the generator it keeps voltage on the battery even after shutting it off. Was this system 12 volts from the factory? That seems odd being it is a 1949. And I don't see a resistor going to the coil. Most guys that knew anything about these around here have sadly went toes up and the newer mechanics tell me I'im crazy when I tell them I have a gas/ diesel crawler with out a pony motor. 

Any advice or ideas would be greatly appreciated. I will add more pics as I go but not much time in my schedule and now winter is coming. How well do these start in 0 deg weather for plowing snow? It does have a block heater.

 

 

[north of 60]

Welcome to the Forum !

That’s a nice looking unit you have..

Several TD6 owners on here, and they will be able to answer most or all of your questions specific to those units.. many others, like me, have different gas over diesel units, and can provide advice/assistance as required...

Your unit should start easily on gas at 0 degrees Fahrenheit, if your block heater is plugged in for awhile and it is working..

You may find you have a dead spot on your starter rather than a problem with the ring gear.. seems more likely to me..

On the temp gauge, I would suspect possibly the sending unit is bad ... I’m thinking it would have moved some when working, especially in the summer months... sending unit is easy enough to check with an ohm meter ..

All the issues you mention are pretty typical of these old units.. pretty amazing that they are still functional... yours is 70 years old !! 

Grant

 

 

 

 

[nomorejohndeere]

Nice 

The front drive for the hydraulic pump is not the same as a rear PTO

 

[DieselSmokeDangerousCurves]

Thanks for the replies,, as to the temp sensor "north of 60", neither the old one worked nor does the new one, its a brand new with a 24" lead and sending unit. https://www.ebay.com/itm/222871353845.  I read some were on this site a young man from Illinois was working on one and found issues with the thermostat housing being pluged up with rust and corrosion.

To "nomorejohndeere" I know the front PTO comes off the harmonic ballancer on the crank like on the Ford 8N's. I'm just not sure what to expect runs out of the rear cover that is on the back if I remove it. I don't want a oil bath if I remove it to check.

Thanks guys for the rapid responses. I will try to get more pics on here later today if not to busy getting paths in the woods cleaned up from last summers storms. Dad needs to get his Rhino down them so he can deer hunt in a few weeks.

[sugarmaker]

DSDC,

Welcome,

Thanks for coming aboard! Great picture! I haven't seen a loader like that yet either. But I am pretty new to the whole TD6 thing. You have a good looking machine that is doing some work for you right now. Others like Pete are down in the trenches trying hard to get one working and moving!

I have done some minor repairs on mine. I am better at cosmetics than hydraulics. My "6" has "float", you raise it and it floats down!:)

You may have checked out my thread one the unit I have.

 If I can help let me know. Looking forward to more pictures too! Yea hard to believe these are in the 65-70 year old range!

 Regards,

 Chris

 

 

[louie figone]

Diesel, that is a very nice looking TD6. You will not loose any lube oil taking off the inspection cover on the back, the oil level is lower. You will need the inside shaft to power the pto, check with Zimmerman Tractor in MO, he has had pto's in the past. The pto is the same for the TD6 and TD9, the TD9 has a longer shaft (22) in the parts breakdown. You need the shaft and cage also as pictured.

[oldscoutdiesel]

And if you go looking for a PTO for the rear, be aware that there are 2 different units available.  One is a small unit that travels faster than 540 RPM and the other is a larger, gear reduction unit that runs at 540 RPM.  If you need 540, be looking for the larger unit. 

[Pbach]

Welcome!

First off I would get yourself a nice operators manual to get things started. That’s a good lookin machine compared to  the one I’ve been working on haha.

- In regards to the thermostat I had the same problem. You can remove and place the sensing part in boiling water to see if the needle moves. If it does then your thermostat is bad, either missing or stuck open. 165-190 is the one you want, I got mine from steiners. Make sure to put the original American made gauge back in! 

-The lube bucket has a special button fitting and is used to lube the rollers and idlers with lower pressure. Don’t use a grease gun as the high pressure will blow out the seals. There are several zerks that will require the grease gun. I believe the rollers take gear oil. I was lucky enough that my oil bucket was in near perfect condition.

-Here in Illinois I use “SAE 30 for Diesel engines” from farm and fleet. Wisconsin has similar weather so you should be fine there.

-yes they are 12 volt systems, originally two 6 volts in series.

-I am just getting to the hydraulics on my dozer so still need to see if the valve has a float.

Regards,

Pete

Chris I am almost out of the trenches! 

[ray54]

Nice looking machine, but that loader/blade is not like any thing else I have seen. A plus is the hydraulic cylinders look to be of more modern design than what is on most 1950's crawlers. With basic hydraulic information,or if a brand name and model number even better find out the gpm of the pump. Then look at places like Surplus Center in Ne and find a control valve with the things you want like float.But generally speaking the small crawlers like your's are the hardest to do  fine grading with.

 

I have a friend that has everything from a TD 6 to TD 18 and has used 15/40 diesel engine oil in all of them.  The gas start engines in all sizes of that vintage are not the most robust. So if you want it to last it needs to treated right. So warm it up and far more important cool it down.They break heads easily, but those that cooled them down before shutting them off have gone years and 1000's of hours with no problems. So from your comments about back ground you need to go against the "modern way" that the clean air people are pushing things. In the summer out here in California 10 to 15 minutes of cool down time is not to much.

 

I think other have covered most of your questions. But operator and service manuals would help a lot. Beside looking on ebay check out places like Binder book. Not sure if they have old stock or new printed but the ones I have seen look just like the originals. Not like some that are just poor copies of originals.

[DieselSmokeDangerousCurves]

Thanks to all, I do have a parts manual and operators manual, they aren't the best but have a lot of info that Iv'e used so far.  ray54 you mentioned cool down period, i developed that habit when running older cummins and cat motors to prevent turbo failure. The book says go back to gas before shut down. On here people have said to leave it on diesel so the valves don't crack. Which works best? It usually dies anyway when I try to go back to gas. Hopefully I haven't messed anything up yet. Does anyone have a pdf version of the operators manual? When I got time otherwise I'll scan mine. The blade works really well but I'd like to find a complete 6 way blade for it also. Id like to slowly add all the options as I go.As for the float style valve,  when I get time I'll try looking one up. I use my TD6 for rough grading and finish with a Ford 8N using a landscape rake. Works really well. I just hate every time the front end drops on the crawler, the blade goes down with it and trying to run 5 levers and 2 pedals with 2 arms can and 2 feet at the same time can be interesting.

Pete, reading your posts about yours is why I posted my questions, I hope you don't give up on yours as once you run one of these they are really addicting. Dad also has a JD 450C  loader/ backhoe I work on and use and between the 2 and the Ford we get a lot done. Is yours also a non-pressurized cooling system? Hence why I'm asking about the 2 different thermostats. I will need more training in the grease and lube dept. i have the adapter but no lube bucket. More to add to list. I get thru your state a lot on the way to Urbana and Chicago so maybe somewere in there you'll be holding classes. Don't give up!

louie figone thanks for the info on the PTO. I need 540 so I'll watch for the right one. oldscoutdiesel thanks for that info also..

If this works heers more pics, the one of the front PTO shaft coupler is showing aprox were the starter won't catch, the bolt will be up and down straight.

[DieselSmokeDangerousCurves]

Chris don't you give up either!

[Pbach]

Was just lookin at your pictures and realized that your make shift radiator cap is one of the clutch compartment access hole covers lol. Ive been lookin for a pair of those.

All td6's have non-pressurized cooling systems.

 

Pete

[td9inidaho]

Nice looking machine. On my 9 I don't recall the front shaft to the pump being a through bolt like yours. If I'm correct, it was splined and no cross bolt. Been a few years, will need to go look at it again.  Also my 9 hydraulics have the float, is nice to use back blading. The hydraulics on these machines is not that fast, so to keep on top of and grade is tough. The big 10 foot blade on the 9 does work better than the smaller blade on my 8. 

They are fun. Good luck

Mark 

[mmi]

loader looks to have early '61-3 roots of wagner design

believe float takes the longer spool and springs on control

[sugarmaker]

DSDC,

I am a little lost without mine near by. It will be inside for the winter which is a good thing compared to the blue tarp it sets under here at home. I like your area where your TD6 sets! Hop deep is your lean to area 12-14 feet? I love lean to's I need the building to add on the lean to!:)

It sounds like you know your way around these types of machines pretty well.

Hhad the same feeling as you trying to run all the controls!:) You said your grill needs work? Looks pretty good to me.

Went with the 165 degree temp thermostat, of course I didn't get the right one twice, third time was a charm. Pretty typical of how I work. Had similar issues not coming up to operating temps.

I have formed a bond with this old TD6 loader since it was my uncles. He never abused it just used the heck out of it. 

Thanks for the pictures too. It sure helps us get up to speed on your machine! Which sure looks like a keeper!

 It should go back to gas if everything is functioning. Does it start good on gas? Might need a tune up? And also could be 7 other things too!:)

Regards,

 Chris

 

[ray54]

Most here just shut them off on diesel. I have never owned a old IH , just driven a few helping my friends out. ? I run Cat D6's and AC HD5's all the same vintage  as the gas starts. Check out general IH page and then find the thread "lets see pic of your ih working this spring"( page 20 at the end,they are harvesting corn like crazy and adding stuff fast ?) I posted a pic of my friends TD 14 shaking walnuts off the trees. That old 14 is probably the IH I have put the most hours on. To run the shaker you have to be able to steer on "otto pilot" because you have 5 controls to help line the clamp up with the tree, plus you don't what to ram the tree.

 

Back to your tractor,are the controls for the blade where they are comfortable to reach? If not I would recommend you move them to where you can use them without being "out of position" as you use the other controls. Yes the smaller crawlers bob up and down much more than a bigger machines. But still you need the controls so you just bump it as you run the rest of the dozer.

I don't run a dozer that much so I have never got that good,but I farm sidehill land with crawlers. So after 50 years I can feather the master clutch, and steer by instinct so I can spend all my time concentrating on the blade. But to have the controls in reach is another very important part. Another vital part is having hydraulic flow or gpm to make the blade go up and down.

 

On my old number one D6 I swapped pumps and controls so I had higher psi to lift field cultivator and other ag implements,which was great. But I lost gpm and the blade took forever to move up or down. It was about impossible to do any real grading. One of the reasons at first glance I like you dozer as it is no built with the old Burcus Erie stuff that used massive rams at very low psi but 50 and 60 gpm flow at a minimum.  

My gut is saying that a very talented "geter done welder" may have engineered your dozer/loader. So it maybe a pump with a little more gpm may be needed to give the response to make a grading machine out of it. But I don't what to be putting ideas in your head that may not help in the end. So I encourage you to fix the things that need mechanical help and use it more to bull dirt around and then touch it up with the wheel tractor. The more you play with it you may get to where you can do much better grading with it too. 

[DieselSmokeDangerousCurves]

Guys, the information you help provide is really appreciated!  Pete, I almost lost laughing it when you pointed out that the radiator cap is from the clutch control cover. I just assumed IH made it that way, that explains one issue with it weeping antifreeze at times. I just figured the fellows back then used water and drained it each winter so IH didn't care. Napa has the right one and I've sent an order to them tonight so it will be at the store bright and early in the morning. Sounds like I got a spare cover now. Does any one know then if it's a non pressurized system if using the 130 deg-155 deg thermostat will protect the head better and give it more power due to the cooler temperature? In most high performance engines we run a lower temp thermostat for this reason. But, those are high capacity pressurized (20# caps) systems.

td9inidaho, mmi, and ray54, the blade goes up and down plenty fast, as good as our JD 450C if not better. It's the guy behind the controls that's still learning to use reverse psychology when the front end goes down or up. The JD 450C with float on its bucket doesn't follow the front end up or down, like the TD6 does.  The controls are just a tad further away than I'd like, any closer might be a hazard when your arms are moving back and forth keeping everything in the right direction. It isn't all bad unless your cutting in and there are alot of rocks or clay which move the front up or down. If this loader is homebuilt the gentleman who did it was a genius because ever weld just about looks perfect, there are no oopses or gaps from being in a hurry and I believe the hydraulic fluid resivore is actually part of the back part of the frame and has vents in the cross brace. Notice on the back the 2 capped nipples, one on each side, that can be used for drains.

sugarmaker, look at the pic of the back of the TD6, to the left of it is a building you may recognize and if you look close at it you will know why. We just had the leanto added this year, its attached to my dads shed/shop, we are trying to finish the interior in so we can wire it. (hes 76) besides my TD6 there a Ford 8N & 2N, under it along with other stuff. The bucket will fit ahead of the blade next weekend when i get time to move it while still keeping it all covered. I learn something new each time i look at this machine. I don't know whats original or whats been modified or updated. I spend a lot of time looking at the parts manual trying to figure it all out but time is limited in my busy world. So much to learn and do, so lil time.

I just hope others can learn how to restore and rebuild their machines from all of your posts on your machines, and something from this one. Mostly i hope they wont' give up and everyone tries to  encourage them while they deal with their frustrations. Knowing what the end may look like might brighten their day. Just wait tell ya all get to deal with the questions when I goto swapping out the rear differential on dad's 560 and the T/A.?

[sugarmaker]

DSDC,

Ahhhh Yes either a sugarhouse or a very nice operation to make spirits!:) Come visit Maple Trader.com if you want to talk maple stuff. Not sure where you are located? We are having a great maple event Lake Erie Maple Expo this Friday and Saturday Nov 8 and 9th ,in Albion PA. 16401 (zip). www.pamaple.org

Yes I see folks that have given up on all types of machines too. They can suck up the time and the dollars and have many, many things that need fixed.

Will be interesting to see if your loader system is a factory unit or home built? Sounds factory or a good craftsman! 

Looks like your TD6 has found a good home! 

Regards,

 Chris

 

[nomorejohndeere]

I've seen that style loader/dozer combo before on the net

 

[ray54]

7 hours ago, nomorejohndeere said:

I've seen that style loader/dozer combo before on the net

 

Where was it crawler or wheel tractor? Many parts of it look like loaders for a wheel tractor.

 

Was thinking the builder had seen something like the loader  T6intrnational has posted about rebuilding on his International T6 Restoration post of Oct 26. But still a nice job on making something functional that can doze and load.

[nomorejohndeere]

There was a T6 for sale awhile back in Arkansas with a regular looking tractor loader on it.  I think it had a rear pto for hydraulics.

I've seen one for sale that had the loader and a blade like this one somewhere,  it had the bucket on it in the pictures with the blade in a separate pic, although I don't remember how it was mounted.

I remember thinking how handy it would be to roll the blade forward as to not cut in when wanting to smooth things out.

It might have been this one?

 

[Pbach]

Just checked and the original thermostat is a 165-190. I used a 160 from steiners part number IHS913.

[DieselSmokeDangerousCurves]

Been a long week, I bought a new radiator cap only to find out when i got to dad's this weekend that I got no clue if it is right. There are no grooves for the ends to turn into. Are these friction fit? Photos will show hopefully my delema. 

Got bucket moved under lean-too in front of TD6 this weekend also so it's out of the weather. Changing from bucket to blade and back first time was interesting. Definitely pre fast hitch. Been spending a lot of spare time going over Chris's posts, just started page 17, very impressed so far with your patience and repair skills. Nice job on grill. Mine started right up in cold this weekend so that makes me feel more confident it's going to enjoy snow.

Anyone know if thats the right cap and if so how it fits in that hole?

[DieselSmokeDangerousCurves]

Yes Chris, it's a Wisconsin maple shed.

Thanks Pete for the pics of the thermostat, um not sure why cow tails are in packages? Is that how you keep them from smacking you while milking?

[mmi]

most of the filler neck inserts have been knocked off...NLA for 40 yrs

expandable drain stopped or out of old gas tank.....but most of the early ones were also 0 pressure...so have to let it out

has been shown in other posts several x this week