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Farmall c PTO bevel gear bearing


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 Hey guys, I need a little help. About 6 weeks ago I went to engage the PTO on my c and nothing happened. The lever was flopping back and forth but appeared to be engaging nothing. Well this afternoon I finally had a chance to take things apart and look at it. I had some help from my father and my lead mechanic (he is the one in the overalls and IH hat). 

Once we got things apart it appears that somehow the lever slide to far and come out of the track on the shaft. The spring that pushes down on the 'let's that moves from indent was bent and the bullet shaped key had fallen out. It appears that a new spring and proper assembly is all it needs.

My problem is that when we when we pulled the PTO assembly off all the bearings around the beveled gear that connects to the belt pully fell out (the one shown in the bottom pic). My question is should these bearings be loose like that? All the bearings I am used to are in a ring and when I search for farmall c bearings all I find are ones encased in a ring. If I pull the bevel gear off and remove the ring behind it in the picture am I going to find the remains of that outer ring? If not what is the trick to getting the ball bearings to stay in place while reassembling?

Thanks for any help, we are just amateurs learning as we go.

 

Brandon

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From what I see , the bearing failed . Take the flange cover off, the will bee shims to keep track of. There should be a bearing number on it ,to cross reference. Replace bearing. 

Should replace bearings and seals in belt unit also 

and the pto bearings output shaft and seal . 

Your not going to be a rookie after this ,roll your sleeves , 

take lots of pictures of each disassembled unit so to put it back . 

Not hard ! Just time consuming. 

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I think it might need to be reshimed when reassembled to assure it's within specifications

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I am currently elbows deep in the PTO of my regular C. Just about to go back together.

I put all new bearings in mine. There are five altogether in the PTO and Belt pulley assemblies. I assume you've taken a look at the parts diagrams? If not, here they are. Item number 4 in the diagram, bearing 63441H, is a roller bearing and everything else in there is a ball bearing. If you found loose rollers, there's your failure. If you found balls, it could be any one of the others. Either way, a bearing did fail. None of them should come apart by hand. One of them is a max load bearing (no. 15) and so it's made with a loading slot to get extra balls in, which carry extra load. These bearings cannot be loaded axially, or they will be damaged and break apart fairly easily. They're designed for radial loads only. If somehow that shaft was loaded axially, that could have caused the failure.

Come to think of it, if it's balls you found how many balls did you find? That could help narrow it down further.

That gear will have to come off the shaft with a puller, or be pressed apart. All the bearing outer races are lightly press fit into the housings, to answer that question. You'll find them in there. They come out fairly easy with a drift and gentle tapping all the way around. Actually, mine came out with the shaft, but one of yours (at least) is obviously broken. If you don't have a press don't despair, Like I said, just about everything came apart with gentle tapping or a three jaw puller. Obviously, hammering on a bearing is generally a big no-no, but you make the call. I used to be a bearing engineer so I generally follow the "rules", and still I tapped everything together because the press fits are so light. If the bearing is pressed into a housing, and you need to tap it in/out without damaging it, make sure you tap on the outer race and only a little bit at a time. I like to use a socket that matches the race diameter, so I'm applying the load all the way around. I also lay a flat steel bar across the socket so I can tap in the center, and it helps me see visually if it's tilted, so I can correct it and keep it going in squarely. Sometimes this is possible, sometimes the geometry doesn't allow it. If it's pressed onto a shaft, make sure you tap on the inner race. Always apply the force on the race with the interference fit, so the impact isn't carried through the balls.

Here are the best cross references I found for the bearings in the PTO/Belt Pulley assembly. There are cheaper ones available, but I only cross reference SKF and Timken. It took me a little bit of waiting to get the ones from Summit. The roller bearing was the quickest though. I'm not sure how urgent your repair is, but if it is, and they're still back ordered at Summit, I might go elsewhere to find them in stock for a little more money. Otherwise, they (and Motion Industries) were the best price I found for all of them.

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Like I said, mine is currently apart and on the bench. If you want pictures, let me know. If you want to call, send me a PM and I'll give you my number.

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Dennis is right above. For the cost, those seals should be replaced too, in my opinion. Napa had all of them. See below.

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I got the gaskets from CaseIH locally, but Messick's, Bates Corp, etc. also had them.

 

I've done the leg work already, so just ask!

Would you mind sending me a picture of part 51 if you have it? Mine was missing that piece. In fact, I'd be very happy if you could measure it (inner dia, outer dia, length) so I could make one. Not sure if you got that part disassembled or not, though.

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Thank you guys. Everything makes a lot more sense. I will order the needed bearings, seals, and gaskets. My sons and I enjoy working on are old tractors and it is great to have some knowledgeable people take the time to help us out.My

Brandon

 

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from photo it looks like brg 15 failed (common brg) gears 10/3 are also ruined but dont need to source unless having some type of belt use....... use 2a or leave 1 out.

as said, others along with gaskets and seals should be checked R & R

21 and 39 likely (35) have damage and will need  to be source used

you need to determine if it was extended stationary belt work, no oil, oil blockage if not those then suspect age/time

check for plenty of shavings floating around for a long time

pinion carriers brg and countershaft brg would be next to fail, as is the right axle ..snap ring type...can be swapped to bolt type with (set)bull gear or machining old

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Brandon, how'd you make out? I wanted to let you know I had to buy a whole Belt Pulley gearbox the other night in order to buy the guard for it. If you need any parts, let me know.

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The project has been stuck because I can't get the bevel gear off the shaft. I tried a cheap gear pulled from harber freight and I snapped an arm off of it. I then tried using a loan a tool gear pulled from advanced auto. I didn't break that one but was not able to budge the gear at all. I am now considering buying a while PTO gear box assembly off eBay and replacing the whole thing.

Brandon

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1 hour ago, Blee25 said:

The project has been stuck because I can't get the bevel gear off the shaft. I tried a cheap gear pulled from harber freight and I snapped an arm off of it. I then tried using a loan a tool gear pulled from advanced auto. I didn't break that one but was not able to budge the gear at all. I am now considering buying a while PTO gear box assembly off eBay and replacing the whole thing.

Brandon

I have a complete one I'll sell you much cheaper than eBay.

But I don't think that's necessary. Find someone with a press and press it apart.

If it doesn't work, let me know via message on here.

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Well I decided to take the PTO shaft and gear box into a guy who has a local shop to see if he would press the gear off for me. After talking to him I decided I would I would drop off the bearings and oil seal I have order when they come in and he will bull the gear replace everything and press the gear back on. While I wanted to say I talked it myself, for as little as he is  charging me, I have plenty of other projects to work on.

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With the press, it's really not much work at all. It's good to have friends like that. I know a guy who helped me in a pinch on a Friday afternoon and when I asked what I owed him he said "how about you sit and have a beer with me, and then come back when you have a good paying job for me". So, my payment was to drink a beer (his) and promise to come back.

I'm glad you're getting it back together!

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  • 1 month later...

I know it has been a while but I wanted to thank you guys for your advice and help. I finally got the PTO gear box back early last week. It is all put together with new bearings and oil seal. This afternoon we put it it back on the tractor this and everything is working good.

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