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dumbfarmer

Metal hydraulic tank repair

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Need some advice 

i tried unsuccessfully to repair a small leak that developed last year on my combines hydraulic reservoir tank. It’s a very small hairline crack. Doesn’t leak much just makes a mess. Earlier when we were working on other stuff on it I drained the tank and unbolted it, tilting it up so I could get to the area easier and took the wire wheel to it polishing it up good, then tried to braze it. Nope. Not sure what it’s made of, galvanized I spose, but I couldn’t get it hot enough to get it to stick. So on the advice of someone else I cleaned it up again and jb welded it with several layers. Waited several days for it to cure good before I refilled it. I thought it worked. I moved the combine to a different spot in the shed and after about a week sitting there it’s wet with fluid again 😠. We haven’t started harvesting yet the corn is just getting the the lower 20’s in moisture and my beans ain’t ready yet. Plus it’s raining cats and dogs again so unfortunately I will probably have time to try and fix it again... any ideas??

0C7254A7-79E0-473E-8959-DC5A1798FFF0.jpeg

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The tank is steel.  It is not galvanized.  

Brazing is a good choice.  I'm not sure how thick it is, but I'd probably braze it.  Welding it with a MIG should work fine too.  If you are having issues repairing it, then take it to a welding shop.  They know how to do it.  Of coarse, they are going to cuss you for putting JB weld on it.  That stuff is a b**** to get off so you can weld or braze.  

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Small hairline crack right by and around the  mounting support,  is a stress crack.  The crack can run behind the mount?? take some measurements, cut off the mount with a 4 1/2 inch. cut off wheel on a grinder, wire buff, inspect for cracks or corrosion, clean the metal real good, use brake parts cleaner, replace the bad or wire weld the cracks. When doing tank repair, test with water before and after the mount go's back on.

try it you'll like ************************* Armand

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24 minutes ago, superman said:

Small hairline crack right by and around the  mounting support,  is a stress crack.  The crack can run behind the mount?? take some measurements, cut off the mount with a 4 1/2 inch. cut off wheel on a grinder, wire buff, inspect for cracks or corrosion, clean the metal real good, use brake parts cleaner, replace the bad or wire weld the cracks. When doing tank repair, test with water before and after the mount go's back on.

try it you'll like ************************* Armand

DO NOT USE BREAK CLEANER. When welding if there is any left that hasnt dried out it will turn to phosgene gas? Very deadly stuff..not sure if this applies to wire welding only or any welding that heats up the break clean. But not worth chancing. Look it up. 

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1 minute ago, iowaboy1965 said:

DO NOT USE BREAK CLEANER. When welding if there is any left that hasnt dried out it will turn to phosgene gas? Very deadly stuff..not sure if this applies to wire welding only or any welding that heats up the break clean. But not worth chancing. Look it up. 

 

30 minutes ago, superman said:

Small hairline crack right by and around the  mounting support,  is a stress crack.  The crack can run behind the mount?? take some measurements, cut off the mount with a 4 1/2 inch. cut off wheel on a grinder, wire buff, inspect for cracks or corrosion, clean the metal real good, use brake parts cleaner, replace the bad or wire weld the cracks. When doing tank repair, test with water before and after the mount go's back on.

try it you'll like ************************* Armand

Agreed to not use the break clean 

I would suggest air pressure to test . A few pounds is enough, air will leak where water won't. Use Windex to look for bubbles

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I use brake parts cleaner all the time, it's best for cleaning oil contaminated  cracks in steel, it dries fast and leaves no residue. every thing today has haz. mat. welding femes are a hazard, weld in a well ventilated area with a gas fume mask.

Tanks not designed for pressure can rupture and split at the seems, add one pound of air pressure to the tank multiply that by the cubic inches in the tank you get a big number.

don't like it don't try it. ***************************** Armand

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42 minutes ago, iowaboy1965 said:

DO NOT USE BREAK CLEANER. When welding if there is any left that hasnt dried out it will turn to phosgene gas? Very deadly stuff..not sure if this applies to wire welding only or any welding that heats up the break clean. But not worth chancing. Look it up. 

DO NOT USE BRAKE CLEANER!!!!!!!

It Creates hydrogen chloride gas and/or phosgene gas, both of which were used as chemical warfare gases.

If the links below are not enough to convince you, I will tell you from personal experience that it can and will make you very sick IF YOU ARE LUCKY!!!

The consequences are usually very long lasting if not FATAL!

https://www.thefabricator.com/article/arcwelding/cleaning-material-with-brake-cleaner-before-welding-a-risky-move-that-can-turn-deadly

https://www.brewracingframes.com/safety-alert-brake-cleaner--phosgene-gas.html

https://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?182941-DANGER-using-BrakeCleaner-to-clean-your-Parts

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I would clean it up again, and see if you can TIG it or it not use an oxy acetylene torch welding tip and weld the crack. The brazing, flux, and JB weld will have made it pretty dirty for welding.  I would clean it with acetone 

 

If you haven’t done this before I would get a scrap piece and run some practice.  You may not even need to use a filler rod, just run it dry. 

 

Regarding Brake kleen, different brands use all kinds of chemicals and they all act differently, the red cans of Brakekleen have had some deadly results.  Please check what your using 

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13 hours ago, dumbfarmer said:

Need some advice 

i tried unsuccessfully to repair a small leak that developed last year on my combines hydraulic reservoir tank. It’s a very small hairline crack. Doesn’t leak much just makes a mess. Earlier when we were working on other stuff on it I drained the tank and unbolted it, tilting it up so I could get to the area easier and took the wire wheel to it polishing it up good, then tried to braze it. Nope. Not sure what it’s made of, galvanized I spose, but I couldn’t get it hot enough to get it to stick. So on the advice of someone else I cleaned it up again and jb welded it with several layers. Waited several days for it to cure good before I refilled it. I thought it worked. I moved the combine to a different spot in the shed and after about a week sitting there it’s wet with fluid again 😠. We haven’t started harvesting yet the corn is just getting the the lower 20’s in moisture and my beans ain’t ready yet. Plus it’s raining cats and dogs again so unfortunately I will probably have time to try and fix it again... any ideas??

0C7254A7-79E0-473E-8959-DC5A1798FFF0.jpeg

Being you have a torch already. Scrape everything off clean with wire brush and braze it. Fix tons of stuff like that and torch with Brazil’s g rod is easiest and fastest way .  Remember brazing you heat to metal to red not puddling like welding then melt rod in.  Fix thousands of pipes ,tanks and such over the years that way. If it was heavier metal then welding would work better. I have even brazed those tanks in place on the combine for neighbor.

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thanks for the heads up 

I'm guilty of using brake cleaner and carb cleaner or gas etc to clean up the greasy stuff

didn't know...........

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6 hours ago, superman said:

Small hairline crack right by and around the  mounting support,  is a stress crack.  The crack can run behind the mount?? take some measurements, cut off the mount with a 4 1/2 inch. cut off wheel on a grinder, wire buff, inspect for cracks or corrosion, clean the metal real good, use brake parts cleaner, replace the bad or wire weld the cracks. When doing tank repair, test with water before and after the mount go's back on.

try it you'll like ************************* Armand

Before you try fixing it further you might try what the above poster said.  IMHO I would add heat the area around where you think the crack is up with a torch( brazing tip works good).  When the steel is almost red hot you will be able to see the crack much better.  I have found a few that were cracked much farther than I thought and in different directions than I thought.  

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I think I will try to braze again 

the last time it wouldn’t stick and it kind sizzled like galvanize metal does 

I’ve brazed lots of stuff and galvanized too but only after the galvanized was burnt off. 

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Not all brake cleaner contains the chemical that makes phosgene gas.  I'm pretty sure they outlawed the chemical in brake cleaner a few years ago, but it's a good thing to check.  Only if you burn the liquid was it dangerous. 

However..... burning off galvanize also makes fumes that can make you very sick, or cause lasting effects.  Not a good idea to burn it off, but if you do, make sure you're in a well ventilated area. 

I still say take it to a welder.....

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2 hours ago, dumbfarmer said:

I think I will try to braze again 

the last time it wouldn’t stick and it kind sizzled like galvanize metal does 

I’ve brazed lots of stuff and galvanized too but only after the galvanized was burnt off. 

If you try to braze it again try some additional flux, use it to clean and prep the area before you get the brazing rod involved.  If you have brazed before and it’s not working you might need some more heat 

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How about just getting a used tank?

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1 minute ago, Mike56073 said:

How about just getting a used tank?

Could always do that. But it really isn’t very hard to braze them. Especially something like that small crack and tank not rusted. I just fixed radiator overflow tank on our 1850 loadstar. Tank looked like pepper shaker. Took about 20 min to remove braze the holes and reinstall.

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I was in  a body shop last week where the method used to attach a very lage body panel was about a dozen tiny spot welds (factory location, used for positioning I think) but the panel was mostly held by Epoxy. I'm surprised the JB  didn't hold, must be the stress from the mounting bracket, or it's cracked more behind it like you guys are already saying.

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11 minutes ago, stronger800 said:

I was in  a body shop last week where the method used to attach a very lage body panel was about a dozen tiny spot welds (factory location, used for positioning I think) but the panel was mostly held by Epoxy. I'm surprised the JB  didn't hold, must be the stress from the mounting bracket, or it's cracked more behind it like you guys are already saying.

Lots of new panels are adhesive bonded. Was watching a documentary on how trucks are built and kenworth or Peterbilt cabs are glued together. Say the joint is stronger than weld.

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That's what the shop manager was saying.  Said it's a struggle to get pieces apart if they were glued together.  And apparently our vehicles are full of spray foam these days too. Rocker panels, cab cornes, inner fenders. Full of foam.... That holds moisture 

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I welded/fixed a field roller years ago that was made from galvanized angle on the tongue.  I didn't know about the white smoke.

I found out, the next day my head hurt bad enough to stay home and tylenol / advil wouldn't touch it

bad deal

 

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23 hours ago, dumbfarmer said:

the last time it wouldn’t stick and it kind sizzled like galvanize metal does

could have been caused by oil or moisture being pulled out through the crack and contaminating the weld.

Don't like burning the galvanizing off. I will carefully use a grinder to get down to bare metal. Have had good luck on catalytic converters with this method. 

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Well update on the tank checked where it was leaking with soapy water and an air hose in the tank. Found bubbles coming from behind the bracket welded on. Great. Cut the bracket off so I can fix behind it. Hopefully it will go better this time 

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Brazing I thought was going well.  But every time I check with a little air in the tank and soapy water I had bubbles and more bubbles. I don’t know what kind of steel this thing is made of but it keeps cracking. Starting to tick me off 

i slathered the whole area with more jb weld  

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All the galvanized I have dealt with made a greenish smoke.  I was always careful to stay upwind and not breathe it.  That was before I got sense!! Supposedly drinking whole milk helps with it but I don't want to find out.  Some well known blacksmith died from it 10 or so years ago.

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