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Draining Water from fuel filter valves IH 574


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The manual on my "new" (to me) 574 says to drain the fuel valves at the end of each day until clear fuel flows. When I went to do so, the valve on the final fuel filter opened and drained no problem. 

When I tried to loosen the thumb nut on the primary filter though, the entire filter started to turn.  I turned the filter back in, holding the drain nut and started turning while holding the filter. I was watching the "cap" nut (?) on the top to make sure it wasn't turning with the drain nut, it wasn't. But the more I backed off the drain nut the more it loosened the filter, even though I was holding it so it wouldn't unscrew. I continued doing this a number of times and then decided I didn't want to take anything apart so I just gave up draining that filter.  

So what's up with this? Why won't the drain nut back off and open the drain? Suggestions please!

Thanks 

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I don't know,I don't even remember if my old 574 has them on.I do know that now when I drain water out of any fuel tank or system I always do it after it has set and cold.I have had better results in getting clear noticeable fuel that way.It seems the water has a chance to separate after it has sat at least overnight.If not I  have found I get  a murky looking fuel that runs and runs.

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Remember my ford 5000's that I love? Pretty sure your tractor has the same fuel filters as them.  (I have CaseIH filters in my fords right now, same as my hydro84 had)) The cap/drain on the bottom is what also holds the filter on. It turns in two places: at the filter where the sealing washer is, and in the center where the drain valve is. Sounds like yours is set up/stuck.  No big deal, but you will want to have new filters and new sealing washers/orings when you fix it. Take the filter off, bottom cap off, remove drain  part with pliers or something, clean, back together.  I'd also suggest never draining it again. Maybe once halfway through the year, and new filters every year.  Use clean jugs to haul your fuel.   If you only put 20-50g of fuel through that a year, then yes, draining twice a year maybe would be better, and new filters every few years.  

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10 hours ago, stronger800 said:

The filter has a Cap, (like a cup) holding it on at the bottom, correct?  The cap has the drain in it, not the filter. 

Yup.

10 hours ago, stronger800 said:

Remember my ford 5000's that I love? Pretty sure your tractor has the same fuel filters as them.  (I have CaseIH filters in my fords right now, same as my hydro84 had)) The cap/drain on the bottom is what also holds the filter on. It turns in two places: at the filter where the sealing washer is, and in the center where the drain valve is. Sounds like yours is set up/stuck.  No big deal, but you will want to have new filters and new sealing washers/orings when you fix it. Take the filter off, bottom cap off, remove drain  part with pliers or something, clean, back together.  I'd also suggest never draining it again. Maybe once halfway through the year, and new filters every year.  Use clean jugs to haul your fuel.   If you only put 20-50g of fuel through that a year, then yes, draining twice a year maybe would be better, and new filters every few years.  

Sounds like what is going on.  If you say never draining it again, I guess you know better than I. I'm so used to the old 350's sediment cup and seeing lots of water in it, along with the sediment, but this has two real filters. I do worry about condensation.  

And only 20 - 50 gal in a year? What do you take me for, a dilettante? 🤪

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11 hours ago, Jacka said:

I don't know,I don't even remember if my old 574 has them on.I do know that now when I drain water out of any fuel tank or system I always do it after it has set and cold.I have had better results in getting clear noticeable fuel that way.It seems the water has a chance to separate after it has sat at least overnight.If not I  have found I get  a murky looking fuel that runs and runs.

Yeah, the manual said at end of day, I did it before starting up. Came clear on the first filter right away.

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Hi, the only time that we drained them of water at the end of day was when it was very cold and the first thing in the morning the water would be ice. The frequency of draining depends on your local weather environment and fuel storage method. If you have high humidity during the summer and below 0F temperatures in the winter then more frequent draining.

There are at least three different types of filters that can be found on a 574, see photos of caseih parts and lets us know which type you have.


Type 1 filters:
574-Fuel-Filter-1.JPG.5a34f5b44cdb7e55c51d421b99d8910d.JPG

 























Type 2 filters:
574-Fuel-Filter-2.thumb.JPG.9ca074979ae731534723490428a59e67.JPG

 

 

 






























Type 3 filters:

574-Fuel-Filter-3.JPG.386597dfdb87358c71617059ea5d9aeb.JPG

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I was thinking she had type 2.  We put 100-300hr on a year. Never drain water, but do change filters once a year and never find water or debris at that time. But my storage tanks are set up nice.  

If you use to get water  and crap in the 350's sediment bowl, then I suppose you should drain these filters too. But I'd keep a new set of filters and and orings for the drains, in the event that the frequent turning of them causes a leak. 

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On 9/24/2019 at 1:30 AM, jimb2 said:

Hi, the only time that we drained them of water at the end of day was when it was very cold and the first thing in the morning the water would be ice. The frequency of draining depends on your local weather environment and fuel storage method. If you have high humidity during the summer and below 0F temperatures in the winter then more frequent draining.

There are at least three different types of filters that can be found on a 574, see photos of caseih parts and lets us know which type you have.


Type 1 filters:
574-Fuel-Filter-1.JPG.5a34f5b44cdb7e55c51d421b99d8910d.JPG

 























Type 2 filters:
574-Fuel-Filter-2.thumb.JPG.9ca074979ae731534723490428a59e67.JPG

 

 

 






























Type 3 filters:

574-Fuel-Filter-3.JPG.386597dfdb87358c71617059ea5d9aeb.JPG

 Stronger is right , type two. Here's a picture. 

On 9/24/2019 at 11:24 AM, stronger800 said:

I was thinking she had type 2.  We put 100-300hr on a year. Never drain water, but do change filters once a year and never find water or debris at that time. But my storage tanks are set up nice.  

If you use to get water  and crap in the 350's sediment bowl, then I suppose you should drain these filters too. But I'd keep a new set of filters and and orings for the drains, in the event that the frequent turning of them causes a leak. 

 And I will certainly pick up filters and O-rings to keep on hand . It's so humid here I'm green from mold . (A Creek runs through it )

tmp-cam--2039483862.jpg

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Same idea as number two abive, and my fords, but with glass bowls. That drain at the bottom is indeed what holds the filter on. If you can't see water or debris in the glass.....I wouldn't touch it. New filters yearly.  I have an oliver with the glass like that. Same filters as my fords. 

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Those are the older versions of Type 2 filters where you screwed the knurled nut on the bottom inward to drain water. The filter is held on by the bronze nut on top, item #13.
Our 674 had this type and they were not my favorite when we trade 674 for 684, the 684 had the new Type 2 filters like the caseih parts diagram with the separate drain screw.
You must be careful not to over tighten the nut item #13 in the Type 2 diagram or you could warp or crack the plastic bowls. 
But if you can look before first start everyday at the bowls and see if there is no water in the bottom then you are good to go. Water will usually first appear in bowl of the right hand filter as it is the primary filter.

I don't remember if I pointed you to the download for the manuals for 574/674 but here it is again:
 

 

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Now not to confuse her.(...or make me appear mistaken') the Nut on the top, threads directly to the drain on the bottom. Correct? As to say the drain/nut/assembly  on the bottom holds the filter on just as much as the nut on the top. Once she takes it apart, she'll know.  Still sounds to me like the one drain  nut is set up, as she was able  to drain the one filter successfully, but not the other. 

BB, hit the small nuts that are beside the top nuts (on the rear filter I can see it, #8, the other is number 15 and yours appears  to be missing/snapped off, or maybe it didn't have two bleecers, most do though)with some penetrating oil. Those are the bleeder screws and will need to be free when you replace the filters, ideally. 

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4 hours ago, stronger800 said:

Now not to confuse her.(...or make me appear mistaken') the Nut on the top, threads directly to the drain on the bottom. Correct? As to say the drain/nut/assembly  on the bottom holds the filter on just as much as the nut on the top. Once she takes it apart, she'll know.  Still sounds to me like the one drain  nut is set up, as she was able  to drain the one filter successfully, but not the other. 

BB, hit the small nuts that are beside the top nuts (on the rear filter I can see it, #8, the other is number 15 and yours appears  to be missing/snapped off, or maybe it didn't have two bleecers, most do though)with some penetrating oil. Those are the bleeder screws and will need to be free when you replace the filters, ideally. 

 As usual Stronger you're spot on , but I always feel weird when I read your posts referring to me as her . as per the illustration in my original manual that came with the tractor , it looks like nothing's missing . Left and right filters look to be reversed from illustration 2 above as the vent screw is on the left on mine . of course I'll take your advice end do the WD-40 treatment before trying to take them apart. And of course , next trip to Coleman's (my international guy ) I'm getting the filters and O-rings. 

 

 In the meantime, my master forest owners intensive  at Cornell's Arnot Forest started this evening and runs through Saturday so I'm bowing out of all other conversations until it's over. It's already past midnight and 5 AM comes too soon . 😉

tmp-cam--514410648.jpg

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Unless you're working the tractor HARD all day long, doing that "daily" just creates unnecessary mess and wastes expensive fuel.

Last time those filters were checked for water was when they were installed, and they certainly weren't changed by Messick's before they sold you the tractor. So it's been years. If you didn't get any water, things are in good shape. The filters also have clear caps so you can SEE any water accumulate.

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Thanks Matt. The less I know about a subject the more I try to stick to "the book ". So I'm grateful to have all of you fellows in this community to share advice from your experience . :rolleyes:

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On ‎9‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 7:50 AM, Matt Kirsch said:

Last time those filters were checked for water was when they were installed,

Actually that was the first time, the second time they were  checked  was by me the day BurroBabe bought it!  :)   They were clean  fyi.

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I eliminated all issues with the CAV filter setup by going to a spin-on WIX filter for a cummins powered freightliner that has a drain valve on the canister.

But now my 464 tractor is no longer genuine  IHC. so I saved the old filters for some IHC purist.

 

 

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On 9/26/2019 at 7:50 AM, Matt Kirsch said:

Unless you're working the tractor HARD all day long, doing that "daily" just creates unnecessary mess and wastes expensive fuel.

Last time those filters were checked for water was when they were installed, and they certainly weren't changed by Messick's before they sold you the tractor. So it's been years. If you didn't get any water, things are in good shape. The filters also have clear caps so you can SEE any water accumulate.

The last thing I want to do is waste fuel but, between my old eyes and the pink dye in the off-road fuel, I'm not sure I could see anything.  I didn't even realize that the bowls were clear!!

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19 hours ago, oleman said:

I eliminated all issues with the CAV filter setup by going to a spin-on WIX filter for a cummins powered freightliner that has a drain valve on the canister.

But now my 464 tractor is no longer genuine  IHC. so I saved the old filters for some IHC purist.

 

 

Yeah oleman, what he said. I would like to know that too! (good backup if the bowl breaks!)

 

19 hours ago, stronger800 said:

Post a pic and a part number for the filter base you used? 

 

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On 9/28/2019 at 2:46 PM, stronger800 said:

Post a pic and a part number for the filter base you used? 

I actually used a CAT application on a freightliner

NEW SPIN ON FUEL FILTER COMBINES PRIMARY AND SECONDARY WITH A SINGLE 6 MICRON FILTER AND WATER Separater WITH WATER DRAIN.

WIX 33932 WITH A NEW BASE WIX 24770

This base is 1-16 male fitting to mount a filter with 1/2” IPS  I/O so it will mount many diff filters. The new filter was selected to FIT on the tractor.  I only want to install this once.

 

Filter WITH A NEW BASE WIX 24770  First picture is the new base and filter. Second picture is the elimination of the secondary filter because the new filter is at 6 microns and also a water separator it was replaced with a new line to the FIP.  Works fine no issues so far. The water bleed valve is on the bottom of the filter hidden by the bash bar.  The filter and base came from Rock Auto. I had to drill and tap stock the L-bracket because the holes are at a different location on the new bracket but it was a good fit. The fuel leakage below the FIP in  the second picture was caused by a cracked glass in the removed CAV secondary filter also why I added the bash bars

 

 

IMG_3085.JPG

IMG_3038.JPG

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