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The first IH prototype 4366

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The 4366 and 4386 were good tractors in my opinion and if IH had went with a Cummins 855 in the 45 and 47 they probably would've sold twice as many as they did with that V8 550 which turned out to be total junk after a few thousand hours, but that's another IF and its just my  opinion

IH prototype 4366 first one built.jpg

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4586 and 4786 ran DV800s not DV550s. They were in the 14 and 1568s. Just thought I'd correct that.

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What hurt IH 4x4 sales in my area wasnt the engine.  It was the fact that our IH dealer sold Versatile and lots of them.  Not only that they trashed Steiger while doing it.  Versatiles and AF combines I think is the only two products that kept the doors open some years.  IH would have been much better off just rebadging Steigers much like Ford and AC did.  Also, the 4366/86 I’ve been told kinda had the same problem JD did with the 84X0 series.  Small engine in a big tractor.

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48 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

What hurt IH 4x4 sales in my area wasnt the engine.  It was the fact that our IH dealer sold Versatile and lots of them.  Not only that they trashed Steiger while doing it.  Versatiles and AF combines I think is the only two products that kept the doors open some years.  IH would have been much better off just rebadging Steigers much like Ford and AC did.  Also, the 4366/86 I’ve been told kinda had the same problem JD did with the 84X0 series.  Small engine in a big tractor.

That wasn't the entire issue with Deere's 4wd in that era. The lack of a true full frame under the engine allowed the block to twist enough to make them head gasket eating SOBs. That's what i always heard about the Deeres. IH/Steiger had full frames so the block wasn't put to the same stresses as the Deeres. The DV800s were what really tarnished them. I haven't heard the complaints about the 4366 and 4386 like ive heard about the bigger V8 models.

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One of the larger farmers in our area- 800 acres and he leased more, he had a 4586. It never had any problems that were significant, but he hated the DVT800. I've always wanted a DV800 to go in my Loadstar. 345 with 392-4v intake doesn't cut it, with a DV800 it would be a much better truck. Down here ? Forget finding it. I worked on his 4586 and it had 12k hours on it. When he had 9000 hours on it, he had the DVT800 taken out for a DT466. That may have been the first shoe horn job I helped on. He hauled the DVT800 for scrap. Hate, hate, hated it. He junked the tractor in a fit over the hydraulics and he claimed the brakes. He later said he shot himself in the foot, as he replaced it with a huge New Holland. The New Holland was nothing but trouble from the minute it arrived on the place. He paid off the note on it, and sold it for $22k firesale to a guy in Indiana. Guy in Indiana got it home and similar bad luck continued.

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43 minutes ago, Reichow7120 said:

That wasn't the entire issue with Deere's 4wd in that era. The lack of a true full frame under the engine allowed the block to twist enough to make them head gasket eating SOBs. That's what i always heard about the Deeres. IH/Steiger had full frames so the block wasn't put to the same stresses as the Deeres. The DV800s were what really tarnished them. I haven't heard the complaints about the 4366 and 4386 like ive heard about the bigger V8 models.

We had a 8440 and 8850 so I know about the Deere flaws although 8440 treated us just fine.  8850 cost us dearly but the tach was on its second go around. My point is on the horsepower.  What do you think will pull more or lug better.  The 4366 with the 466 or Versatile 750 with the cummins 855?

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The ihc 86 were okay but like big bud said most dealers were versatile or Steiger dealers also. Versatile owned the 4wd market here from 75 to 95 about. When the 9270 caseih and 8870 jd took over. The big problem isn’t the engine on the 4x86 the final drives gave huge problems up here. The engine problems on the 84,86 series jd came some from no frame mostly they had the 531 engine punched as much as it would go. They got the engine to last in the last models. Versatile had them all though cheap easy to service but they gave up the market when hydraulics became important

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Local dirt contractor I do work for tried using 4386's. It was constant differential problems. He bought a Stiger with a 3406 and Allison trans. No more differential problems. Only what I call minor problems since. These tractors are run hard 8-10hrs a day. 

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5 hours ago, Mighty1206 said:

Would have been better if the 45's and 47's ran the DTI817 instead of the DV800 IMO

X2

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1 hour ago, Cool1566 said:

X2

 

6 hours ago, Mighty1206 said:

Would have been better if the 45's and 47's ran the DTI817 instead of the DV800 IMO

Cool as it might have been you would still have an orphan tractor with an orphan engine like they ended up being.

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2 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

 

Cool as it might have been you would still have an orphan tractor with an orphan engine like they ended up being.

Or maybe the 817 would've been alot more reliable and a lot more popular and maybe they would still have parts available.

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1 hour ago, IHC5488 said:

How do you know it's a prototype? Just curious.

There is an article about it that has been up here before. The engineer out of college and a few other guys built it in a leased building

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The rear of the prototypes cab is slanted “in” instead of “out” like the regular production 4366’s (as you may know, just posting the pic since it’s a good one) 

91532981-AD21-4D9C-A472-253DD211D283.thumb.png.0477ce67b93ddb0e8808ae0d49cd0640.png

Ive seen that pic of the prototype before and have never noticed the difference in the cab. 

 

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3 hours ago, Mighty1206 said:

Or maybe the 817 would've been alot more reliable and a lot more popular and maybe they would still have parts available.

Doubtful.  Installing the 817 in a two low volume production tractors would not make it a mainstream popular engine like Cat, Cummins, and Detroit big block motors.  From the limited info I've found, the 817 wasn't even hardly used in IH's own trucks.  That's the market you had to crack to get volume.

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10 hours ago, dale560 said:

The ihc 86 were okay but like big bud said most dealers were versatile or Steiger dealers also. Versatile owned the 4wd market here from 75 to 95 about. When the 9270 caseih and 8870 jd took over. The big problem isn’t the engine on the 4x86 the final drives gave huge problems up here. The engine problems on the 84,86 series jd came some from no frame mostly they had the 531 engine punched as much as it would go. They got the engine to last in the last models. Versatile had them all though cheap easy to service but they gave up the market when hydraulics became important

The hydraulics is was soured us on our last Versatile among many things. 

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I always heard the 4366s had limited cooling. Was a couple of them around here 25-30 year's ago. The one had the front differential slid out from underneath it for some issue I don't remember. The dealership found the differential pinion cage was spinning in the housing. Dealership said the case needs replaced. Farmer said it will hold and had the dealership do the centerpunch trick and put it back together. 😲. I thought when I had the 4586 if IH wanted to use the design of the tractor fine, but why didn't they use the same drivetrain as Steiger since Steiger was getting everything shipped there anyway. I very many times, wished I would have spent the 15,000 extra over what I gave for the 4586 and bought a Panther lll ST-325, or ST-350 and had something. Money I saved buying the 4586 over the Steiger was tossed at it keeping it going.

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1 hour ago, 856 Custom said:

I always heard the 4366s had limited cooling. Was a couple of them around here 25-30 year's ago. The one had the front differential slid out from underneath it for some issue I don't remember. The dealership found the differential pinion cage was spinning in the housing. Dealership said the case needs replaced. Farmer said it will hold and had the dealership do the centerpunch trick and put it back together. 😲. I thought when I had the 4586 if IH wanted to use the design of the tractor fine, but why didn't they use the same drivetrain as Steiger since Steiger was getting everything shipped there anyway. I very many times, wished I would have spent the 15,000 extra over what I gave for the 4586 and bought a Panther lll ST-325, or ST-350 and had something. Money I saved buying the 4586 over the Steiger was tossed at it keeping it going.

Did you buy yours new? Neighbor had a pt 325 he didn’t use it as much as his 8430 but it never have trouble except for a clutch

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I've had a 4366 for almost 20 years. I like it.

The 4586 were liked when new but the engine was expensive to repair. They should have used the 855 cummins and possibly the rest of the stigler drive.

TThx-Ace

 

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We had a 4366 for years, loved it. It got sabotaged and seized up, so we got a 4586. Used it for years till the front diff blew and replaced it with a Vers 875, Great tractor! Still have the V800 in good running condition if anyone wants it.

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1 hour ago, R Pope said:

We had a 4366 for years, loved it. It got sabotaged and seized up, so we got a 4586. Used it for years till the front diff blew and replaced it with a Vers 875, Great tractor! Still have the V800 in good running condition if anyone wants it.

The 835 , 875 895 sold my the boatloads down here. It wasn’t until the jd disc airseeder came that people needed better hydraulics. In the red river valley the ford new holland genesis had most tractor brands beat just because of their hydraulic capicity

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Back in the early 70's JD had the market just about sewed up in East ND and north west MN. I don't know why. Right on the very edge was Fergus Falls MN. Go west of that north south line running through Fergus and west of the line was mostly green. East where the dairies were was mostly fed with some AC, Case and JD tossed in. Both the JD and IH dealers back then in Fergus were considered good dealers with good parts and service. JD mostly concentrated on the big grain farms west of Fergus and IH on the dairy areas.

I actually think JD being more popular than IH on the grain farms was because of the combines. The guys west of Fergus were using MF and JD bines back in the 70's with a few Gleaners too. The Over here? The dairy/livestock area? Some old Case bines, JD 55's and MH/MF SP60 and 92's. Prior to the axle flow I can only remember seeing one IH combine being used. All the other IH bines I saw up till then in this area were new on a dealers lot. Always wondered how much that had to do with with the areas each had staked out as red or green areas back then.

For all the claims of how terrible JD was it sure seems that a lot of BTO's were too dumb to know that IH was better....... But from the SD/ND border north to Grand Forks and as far west as Lakota ND and as far east as Fergus Falls and Detroit Lakes MN was pretty much a JD area. I think I saw more Case out there when I worked there in 73 than I did IH. But mostly JD. The farmers out there were snobs too. They would openly claim that only the poor farmers had Versatile. And the only thing some would say was better than JD was Steiger. most didn't have anything good to say about Case. Saw a fair number of MF combines but hardly any tractors either.

 

Rick

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, dale560 said:

There is an article about it that has been up here before. The engineer out of college and a few other guys built it in a leased building

It's in the Red 4WD tractors book too

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4366 and 4386's were good tractors, the 45's and 47's not so much. 43's are simple, somewhat crude by todays standards but for that vintage were not bad. If you treat them like the 200 hp tractor they are they will be fine, if you try and treat them like 300hp tractors you will have problems.   I have a 4386 and grew up on a 4366. My step son also has a 4366.

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