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D358 oil slobber

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11 hours ago, J-Mech said:

Boy, I couldn't agree more.  Time and again, dealt with this.

IH pushed throttle down, shift up for years.  They also preached that if you were throttled down you needed to know that if you yanked the throttle and the engine did not respond, you are lugging the engine and it was time to shift down.   Not an old man situation.  Just not following given information.   Affected gasoline engines the most and we sold a lot of them. 

 

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1 hour ago, pete23 said:

IH pushed throttle down, shift up for years.  They also preached that if you were throttled down you needed to know that if you yanked the throttle and the engine did not respond, you are lugging the engine and it was time to shift down.   Not an old man situation.  Just not following given information.   Affected gasoline engines the most and we sold a lot of them. 

 

I don't disagree.  But as a generalization, it was the "older" guys who struggled with it.  Maybe they did when they were younger too....

Seems as that group ages more, it gets worse too.  Can't "use" the equipment anymore because it might tear it up, even though it may have done a particular job for years.  Have to baby it now.  In my opinion if a piece of equipment is too wore out to work anymore, it should be rebuilt or sold.  Otherwise it isn't worth keeping.  No offense intended.... just an observation. 

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Here it is multi generational for the most part........................Maybe they think they are saving money by thinking they aren't burning up as much fuel?  

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my german seems to run better when i use it but mines a 310 not a 358 - i dont think i have noticed the slobbering thing on mine i will have to go check it out

 

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I thought   I  corrected my self on the engine manufacturer.  They are a Neuss engine and were made in Neuss Germany. Don't know why I said Deutz.       And being 83 now I     guess I   qualify as one of the old farts so to speak but one thing you have to remember on a whole lot of IH tractors, the rated rpm and standard pto rpms are two different thing so running at full throttle  will over speed a pto operated machine a considerable amount.   That does not mean you start out running pto standard rpm , it means you run about 10 percent above standard pto speed so under full load you are near std pto speed when operating pto equipment. 

The 806 high idle speed is 2640, rated rpm is 2400,  std pto speed of 1000  and 540 is 2100 rpm. 

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Either way Pete I thought it was funny..........I was always under the impression that it was over sped on the shaft so when pulled down under load it was at rated speed.  Blowing silage the difference was huge.

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2 hours ago, TP from Central PA said:

Either way Pete I thought it was funny..........I was always under the impression that it was over sped on the shaft so when pulled down under load it was at rated speed.  Blowing silage the difference was huge.

I always thought it was wide open on the throttle. Those old guys would have a nervous breakdown watching us run silage up.. Us and the neighbor we chopped with pushed silage up the silo as fast as it will take it up. The blower tractors bark when we're going. We've had the neighbor's 4440 pinned back when running silage up. Our place is the same way. 

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IH's shine on the pto,always see JD farms with a big red horse on blowers,manure pumps becuse of the over speed pto.Open her up  pull her down and still silage heading to top of 80ft or better silos.Put a 856 and 4020,4320 or bigger JD on blowerJD be off after first load.

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hilarious how we go from my slobbering 358 to the cultural drawbacks of us old farts. lol.i have a good grasp of this slobbering thing, but it's engine oil not fuel. with no blowby out dipstick, and long wait to check oil level was my main question of possible causes.

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I have an opposite old fart story, involves GM 2 cycle diesels and road trucks though.
When the electronic engines came on line in the '90s it was hard to get old Detroit drivers to lug the new electric Cummins engines the way they needed to get better mileage.
When work traded off the old GMC with a 6V92 for a Volvo with an N14 Cummins our driver was always griping about the engine, no power, wouldn't pull up a small hill in Marion etc etc etc 
One day I rode along to pick up a dead tractor and found out why. Driver was taking the Cummins all the way to the governor then up shifting which resulted in the RPMs being at about the shift point when he got back on the fuel. A few months later I went to pick up a 5288 and a 966 at a farm that had me coming back through Marion loaded. Got to the hill he complained about and found out he was mistaking RPM limits in lower gears with no power. Up shifted to a full power gear and accelerated up the hill with a pretty fair load on.

Took me a while to get him to stop driving that Cummins like it was a Jimmy. 

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dont see any slobber on mine - maybe im lucky

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This spring we accidentally left our 826 (d358) idling all night. The next morning I drove by and heard it running and thought oops.  when I walked up to it there was fuel/soot dribbling from the muffler... I decided to Rev it up to clear it out.

When I opened the throttle up fuel/soot shot up in the air and back down all over the everything!

I let it clear up and shut it off. Then I went home to change clothes. when we used it later that day it smoked for a long time  but eventually cleared up.

Thx-Ace

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21 hours ago, Maynard said:

I have an opposite old fart story, involves GM 2 cycle diesels and road trucks though.
When the electronic engines came on line in the '90s it was hard to get old Detroit drivers to lug the new electric Cummins engines the way they needed to get better mileage.
When work traded off the old GMC with a 6V92 for a Volvo with an N14 Cummins our driver was always griping about the engine, no power, wouldn't pull up a small hill in Marion etc etc etc 
One day I rode along to pick up a dead tractor and found out why. Driver was taking the Cummins all the way to the governor then up shifting which resulted in the RPMs being at about the shift point when he got back on the fuel. A few months later I went to pick up a 5288 and a 966 at a farm that had me coming back through Marion loaded. Got to the hill he complained about and found out he was mistaking RPM limits in lower gears with no power. Up shifted to a full power gear and accelerated up the hill with a pretty fair load on.

Took me a while to get him to stop driving that Cummins like it was a Jimmy. 

Ya, the old Screaming Jimmys... Never spent much time in them except a 6V92 & brother had a 8V92 silver in highway tractor. Slam your fingers in the door couple times & your ready to go. Quite a change from the 425cats & 444cummins of the same period

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13 minutes ago, D1206 said:

Ya, the old Screaming Jimmys... Never spent much time in them except a 6V92 & brother had a 8V92 silver in highway tractor. Slam your fingers in the door couple times & your ready to go. Quite a change from the 425cats & 444cummins of the same period

My experience  with Detroit's were in Euclids and Terex loaders.12 v71 in Eucs,and 12v71 twin turbos in loaders.They really were loud in Eucs and whistled in loaders.Funny bout the Cummings quote awhile back ,went to another mining company they had Cummings in their same size Euclids,but always seemed like they had less power.I don't know if that was just the sound or what.

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On 9/15/2019 at 8:01 AM, acem said:

This spring we accidentally left our 826 (d358) idling all night. The next morning I drove by and heard it running and thought oops.  when I walked up to it there was fuel/soot dribbling from the muffler... I decided to Rev it up to clear it out.

When I opened the throttle up fuel/soot shot up in the air and back down all over the everything!

I let it clear up and shut it off. Then I went home to change clothes. when we used it later that day it smoked for a long time  but eventually cleared up.

Thx-Ace

Ill bet that old girl sounded just as sweet the next morning as she did the night before didnt she. That story makes me laugh a little. Ive came close but never done it yet. I left my dump truck idle for about 8 hrs once. Letting it charge the battery then i left for a while. One thing led to another and i came home. I remember thinking what is that sound out there. Lol

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It sounded good in the morning. Its a good tractor but does smoke a little.

It sure made a mess when I revved it up. I realized what was happening before it covered me in black but I didn't have time to get out of the way. I was kinda like Charlie brown at the water fountain.

TThx-Ace
.

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On 9/14/2019 at 12:13 PM, ih886/1066 said:

hilarious how we go from my slobbering 358 to the cultural drawbacks of us old farts. lol.i have a good grasp of this slobbering thing, but it's engine oil not fuel. with no blowby out dipstick, and long wait to check oil level was my main question of possible causes.

I dont get why you keep saying you have to wait a long time to check the oil. Dont you check it cold? Checking immediately after shutdown will always give a false reading. The oil is hung up inside motor and on top end. Takes awhile for it to trickle down to pan.

We've run tractors that use gallons a year. If it's truely oil slobbering out, your still not working it hard enough, it should burn the oil out if its getting into the combustion chamber and into the exhaust. 

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I was also taught you take your tractor and engage the PTO give it 100% Full Throttle (plus whatever you can pull on it harder) and then you start chopping you bought it down to PTO RPM maybe a little lower than that even. 

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this slow oil drain back sounds like ....mentioned in a TSB   and here last year.....IIRC 179/239  wrong oil used and not warmed .loaded regular, so valve train, drain holes plug  and it  over whelms the breather over flow screen  makes for low PCV and oily slobber mess

cant be good for bearings...

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I forgot and left my old 97 Ford Powestroke running all night once years ago.  Came out to go to work the next morning,  what is that running out back? Used an 1/8 of the rear fuel tank as I recall. 😁

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On 9/17/2019 at 10:46 AM, brahamfireman said:

I dont get why you keep saying you have to wait a long time to check the oil. Dont you check it cold? Checking immediately after shutdown will always give a false reading. The oil is hung up inside motor and on top end. Takes awhile for it to trickle down to pan.

We've run tractors that use gallons a year. If it's truely oil slobbering out, your still not working it hard enough, it should burn the oil out if its getting into the combustion chamber and into the exhaust. 

I dont understand what he means either. And my german you have to pull the dipstick, wipe it, stick it back in then check it. The first pull will show a gallon low every time even if its been sitting level all night. Second pull is perfect. 

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The dip stick doesn't go into the oil pan. It is a separate tube bolted to the side of the oil pan.  Any quick pull or pushing of it can either draw oil up into tube or push it down.  IH even sent out a letter years ago about complaints customers had about checking the oil.  It recommended a procedure but I don't remember what it was.  Mostly just to make people aware of it and recommendations about how and when to check the oil level.  As long as you always use same procedure no problem.  

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