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WyattFarmall

Key Ignition for an H

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I’ve got 2 H’s and I want to replace the 2 position in-out kill switches with ignition keys. Does anyone know of a good 2 position keyed ignition switch that will work?

Also, would it be possible to wire in the key and the button, so the button could act as an “emergency” kill switch?

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I'd just use an IH on/off ignition from the later number series tractors through the 66 series.  

No reason no have an "emergency kill".  If a key switch is too hard to use to shut it off, you don't need to be driving it.

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25 minutes ago, WyattFarmall said:

I’ve got 2 H’s and I want to replace the 2 position in-out kill switches with ignition keys. Does anyone know of a good 2 position keyed ignition switch that will work?

Also, would it be possible to wire in the key and the button, so the button could act as an “emergency” kill switch?

Used to do this all the time. Put a key switch on when switching to 12 volt alt. You just had to drill out switch hole to key size. You could wire on off switch after key ed ignition to serve as your kill . Years ago even used to get key switches that would shut magneto off when running 12 volt alt with magneto. The key switch we always used was a standard brand universal 4 pole. Had battery wire, ignition, accessories and starter pole. Sometimes we even put solenoid operated starters on. One stop turn key and go.

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Dales idea is a good one. It's your tractor, do as you please. J-Mech our friend, you have much skill and knowledge. Don't understand why giving tech advice isn't enough. Why must it be tech advice then a wad of spit in the face. I know this type of response is popular but it's not necessary.     

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Word of warning! If you want a keyed switch I would get one from an auto parts yard, an OEM switch, make sure you get keys too. I made the HUGE mistake of replacing the old Mopar switch on the M after Son lost the key. Went to.... Napa. First switch lasted about a year,  that means it started the tractor maybe 5-6 times.  Went and got the second switch, Napa store manager really had no sympathy for me buying a P.O.S. imported switch from him.  Second switch was junk right out of the box,  He DID exchange that one.  NAPA-worst auto parts store in my town by far.  All the Checker stores are now O'Reilly's,  had good luck with them.  My local service &repair shop buys most of his parts there.  Had him put a new alternator on my Volvo about 1-1/2 years ago. Sold the car last fall. SON's buddy bought it, he had it maybe 2 weeks and the alternator stopped charging. Paid my shop a visit, got his order number and date, went to O'Reilly's got their invoice number for warranty,  Volvo's new owner went to His O'Reilly's 200 miles away and got his new alternator off of my warranted.  It's a $700 alternator, that's a pretty big deal!

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I bet I put a 100 of those standard ign switches in. Never had one fail.  A case ih magnum or 4430 jd switch are the same except for key lock. They use a bigger neck though and spade terminals. Put a lot of jd switches on 10,20 series Deere’s when changing to 12 volt. Would make a new wiring harness up at the same time. Here are pics of universal switch I have used tons of and the jd switch. The jd is nice for more terminals.

02C787C5-5DD8-401F-9DDC-6EB0AD5E6D4A.png

9E020467-3D4A-463C-B408-91776D5335FB.png

872C3856-B47F-49BF-86F6-EBC1EACFAF36.png

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Here is the panic kill switch you would need. Just push in to stop. Spring loaded so it returns to on. Wire this between keyed ign and distributor it would give you a kill. But you must remember to turn key off also after motor dies or dead battery or burnt points 

A48FBB80-2F34-4F6B-891B-5665160A5596.png

6E449B8D-D60C-4004-87C2-DBAC61ECF731.png

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Just out of curiosity why do you want to replace button.I was a kid on the old M that was about the safest way to shut it off.Dad always told me if you get in trouble hit the button.Pretty simple and straight forward.

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22 minutes ago, Jacka said:

Just out of curiosity why do you want to replace button.I was a kid on the old M that was about the safest way to shut it off.Dad always told me if you get in trouble hit the button.Pretty simple and straight forward.

We would replace the buttons when wiring alt on to them. I agree button is pretty straight forward. Back years ago self energized alt were not around readily and they would drain battery sitting long periods. So solution was a key switch or keep push switch and wire a oil pressure sender to energize field. Key switch just simplest method. We then put modern starters on some that were solenoid operated so just turn key and everything happened

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I'm not sure, but I get the feeling the H's might just have magnetos.

Not impossible to change, just gonna take a slightly different angle.

Mike

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1 hour ago, mikem said:

I'm not sure, but I get the feeling the H's might just have magnetos.

Not impossible to change, just gonna take a slightly different angle.

Mike

ooh, good point...

Anything pre-1950 has a good chance of having a magneto on it, and the operation of the switch is completely different.

The way it works on the magneto is the switch is open when the tractor is running, and when you push the button in, it closes the switch and grounds out the magneto.

You can do the same with a key switch by wiring one terminal to the tractor's frame. To turn the tractor OFF, you turn the key switch ON. However, most key switches do not let you remove the key in the ON position, so you  gain nothing in the way of tamper-resistance or security. Turn the switch off and remove the key, now the tractor will run but you cannot shut it off easily!

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18 minutes ago, Matt Kirsch said:

ooh, good point...

Anything pre-1950 has a good chance of having a magneto on it, and the operation of the switch is completely different.

The way it works on the magneto is the switch is open when the tractor is running, and when you push the button in, it closes the switch and grounds out the magneto.

You can do the same with a key switch by wiring one terminal to the tractor's frame. To turn the tractor OFF, you turn the key switch ON. However, most key switches do not let you remove the key in the ON position, so you  gain nothing in the way of tamper-resistance or security. Turn the switch off and remove the key, now the tractor will run but you cannot shut it off easily!

Used to be a readily available magneto key switch. A couple Hs for one guy he wanted to keep mag and add alternator. So we put those grounded on off position. 

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Thanks for all the replies. The reason I am looking to add a key switch is because I sometimes park my tractors in public places and I don’t want someone to be able to hop on and take off with it, and I don’t want someone else to be able to accidentally start it and get injured, then the liability falls on me. I know for sure my 45’ H has no Magneto, I’ll have to look at the 48’, so I should be all set there. 

My asking about a kill switch was just out of curiosity, it is a possibility that I will wire both in but chances are I will only use the key.

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If that’s what your going for put a battery disconnect on it. When parked other than where you have control switch it off. Usually goes in the grounded side of the system depending on whether you are neg or pos ground. 

John

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I'd just unhook the battery.  Then it can stay original....

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Doesn't make sense to use a keyed switch on those tractors the push pull switch is bullet proof a keyed switch is trouble if its in the elements the keys get lost or broke off if its for security or tampering I simply unplug the connector a the push button start switch on my super M and it won't start maybe your H uses one of the other methods of engaging the starter 

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That standard key switch will take the elements. Been on dads super M for almost 35 years and still works. His other super m 40 years.

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1 hour ago, dale560 said:

That standard key switch will take the elements. Been on dads super M for almost 35 years and still works. His other super m 40 years.

You live in a much gentler climate than most here. 

My theft deterrent on this tractor was the coil wire I slid out. I also turned the fuel shutoff because it leaks otherwise . It sat there for a month or so this May to June

IMG_20190519_121716213_HDR.jpg

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1 hour ago, dale560 said:

That standard key switch will take the elements. Been on dads super M for almost 35 years and still works. His other super m 40 years.

I'm sure some do but can't tell you how many times I've had to pick broken keys out on them or someone just taking the key out its a personnel choice but It wouldn't interest me

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14 hours ago, ksfarmdude said:

I'm sure some do but can't tell you how many times I've had to pick broken keys out on them or someone just taking the key out its a personnel choice but It wouldn't interest me

Dad took the bug outta his tractors.  IE the distributor rotors. 

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On 8/15/2019 at 7:30 PM, J-Mech said:

I'd just use an IH on/off ignition from the later number series tractors through the 66 series.  

No reason no have an "emergency kill".  If a key switch is too hard to use to shut it off, you don't need to be driving it.

If you can't offer your help without making snide remarks, you don't need to be responding.   

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