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New diesel engines loosing their popularity now?


1967806

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I have a diesel truck.  95 power stroke that is just fine for my needs

 

my everyday driver has no need to be a diesel, I mostly drive in town and may pull a trailer over the horizon a coupe times a year.  

 

Therefore, I won’t buy another diesel. They just don’t pencil out for me, not even close 

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My mom has a really cool 2018 chevy cruze diesel that has a manual transmission. Not the fastest way of getting around but fun and really efficient. It gets 35-40 mpg in town. It will also pull any gear you put it in.

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30 minutes ago, SMiller said:

New 7.3L gas ford motor with the 10-speed auto and 4.30 gears will do the job of any diesel pickup truck while requiring no def, maintenance, or $100 oil changes...

 

I am driving my last diesel.

I got this info from hand calculated owner of a 2015 6.2 F250 dually CC 4x4 who uses his mainly for farm use/hauling flatbed trailer empy and loaded with his kubota tractor or car trailer with vehicles etc....nothing extremely heavy - kubota w/trailer and truck are around 15K lbs - he is usually pulling 6 to 9K lbs when towing or empty trailer at 2500 lbs before pickup of vehicle. I didnt ask what gear ratio. 

He disclosed his hand calculated mileage on his truck and it was as follows

In a years time he only has two tanks over 10mpg, one empty at 11.02 going to wichita and another 14.90 driving around in the snow. 

ALL of the rest are from 5 to 7 mpg which are loaded/trailer and then 7 to 9 empty - i didnt make this up, these are real world hand calculated numbers. 

that is scary bad if you ask me and ford is coming out with a 7.3 gasser that will likely be even more thirsty - our old 460 did that good and had a 3 speed trannie with no overdrive. 

I got 5 to 7 with my 351 windsor h.o. pulling my skid steer and 14 on hwy trips - it was a C6 w/o overdrive. 

With these gas figures how does a person justify going back to gas? 

I put on 25K minimum per yr and if i use 7mpg as an average @2.5$/gal thats ( current prices ) $8929/yr 
Diesel would be 15mpg ( what i avg in my diesel now ) $4650 @ 2.79/gal = $4279 savings

I came up with the diesel figure from using the same weights/mileages for empty vs towing and my personal numbers which are 

17.5 to 19 empty, 17 commuting while working empty around town, 15  towing empty skid steer trailer, 12 loaded at 18K GCWR. 

Using the figure of 9K for a diesel addon at purchase, so in a tad over 2 yrs i have paid for my diesel engine and have the resale to boot. 

In 300K miles which is the current state of my 03 diesel on that gasser i would have spent $107142 on gas
$55,800 on diesel = savings of $51342 - i realize i would have DEF costs and repairs for diesel are more expensive + reg maint, but what am i missing? 

I would think we could get a gasser that could do better than those numbers these days with better technology and 10 speed trannies etc.....WOW

I been wanting to go back gas but this doesnt make sense - thoughts anyone?

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Well, my 6.0 just turned in 8 mpg at about 17,500 lb. on a 150 mile trip @ 65 mph 50% grades 50% flat, 95% highway. The same truck does an average of 12 all around 50% highway @ 75 and 50% town empty. 4.10 gears don't help the empty mileage.

My utilization rates are much lower as it's my airport vehicle so it sits in the parking lot for a week at a time. At your utilization you may pencil out better but you haven't added the maintenance expense difference. The gasser will need oil changes only at less that half the diesel, will never need fuel filters, won't need a set of injectors, etc. It still may add up for you but never for me and I tried to make it work. New diesels seem to have lost some advantages and have always had the cold weather disadvantage.

Diesel still works for some. The inconvenience factor of diesel is highly subjective. I personally like to jump in, start, drive away, and have heat 1/4 mile up the road. Others don't mind unplugging it and warming it up. I've seen some of the shop bills for diesels and my 6.0 hardly needs anything. 

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How the gas/diesel difference pencils out will vary significantly from state to state.  Here in PA, there is currently a $.73/gallon advantage for gasoline right now.  For heavy towing, diesel power may be a hair better in cost savings, but it takes a long time to make up the $9K for the diesel option.  I prefer the way a turbo diesel drives, but I can't justify the operating costs any longer.

Maintenance costs for diesels used to be a good bit less than gassers.  That is no longer the case.  I should never have sold my '98 Ram with its simple, 24-valve Cummins.  I would average 20-22 mpg to and from work.  Highway mileage was just a hint better.  That truck felt like an extension of my arm.

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3 hours ago, searcyfarms said:

I got this info from hand calculated owner of a 2015 6.2 F250 dually CC 4x4 who uses his mainly for farm use/hauling flatbed trailer empy and loaded with his kubota tractor or car trailer with vehicles etc....nothing extremely heavy - kubota w/trailer and truck are around 15K lbs - he is usually pulling 6 to 9K lbs when towing or empty trailer at 2500 lbs before pickup of vehicle. I didnt ask what gear ratio. 

He disclosed his hand calculated mileage on his truck and it was as follows

In a years time he only has two tanks over 10mpg, one empty at 11.02 going to wichita and another 14.90 driving around in the snow. 

ALL of the rest are from 5 to 7 mpg which are loaded/trailer and then 7 to 9 empty - i didnt make this up, these are real world hand calculated numbers. 

that is scary bad if you ask me and ford is coming out with a 7.3 gasser that will likely be even more thirsty - our old 460 did that good and had a 3 speed trannie with no overdrive. 

I got 5 to 7 with my 351 windsor h.o. pulling my skid steer and 14 on hwy trips - it was a C6 w/o overdrive. 

With these gas figures how does a person justify going back to gas? 

I put on 25K minimum per yr and if i use 7mpg as an average @2.5$/gal thats ( current prices ) $8929/yr 
Diesel would be 15mpg ( what i avg in my diesel now ) $4650 @ 2.79/gal = $4279 savings

I came up with the diesel figure from using the same weights/mileages for empty vs towing and my personal numbers which are 

17.5 to 19 empty, 17 commuting while working empty around town, 15  towing empty skid steer trailer, 12 loaded at 18K GCWR. 

Using the figure of 9K for a diesel addon at purchase, so in a tad over 2 yrs i have paid for my diesel engine and have the resale to boot. 

In 300K miles which is the current state of my 03 diesel on that gasser i would have spent $107142 on gas
$55,800 on diesel = savings of $51342 - i realize i would have DEF costs and repairs for diesel are more expensive + reg maint, but what am i missing? 

I would think we could get a gasser that could do better than those numbers these days with better technology and 10 speed trannies etc.....WOW

I been wanting to go back gas but this doesnt make sense - thoughts anyone?

I would also think that they could be making more fuel efficient gas, and diesel, engines nowadays. To me, and maybe it's all because of the emissions stuff, it seems like things are going backwards in fuel economy. Sure the trucks make more power and a bit more get up and go, but what's wrong with the motors of 15-25 years ago. I found, from owning and driving both in the same situations, that my 08 duramax is not any better on fuel than my 02 6.0 gm. No difference. In fact I think its harder on fuel because of warm up time. Then theres dads 94 6.5 gm. It'll get high 20's running empty, and probably around 18 loaded. I never really figured it out towing. All I know is I can haul hay for two full days on a tank of fuel, where as when we hauled with dads 6.0 gas, same size tank, I would have to fill up first thing, then after lunch again. Gas is quite a bit cheaper than diesel here, but not that much lol. 

My 02 1500HD 6.0 will get 18-20 mpg empty, summer or winter. Pulling the 22' cattle trailer loaded with 20-22 5-600 lb calves, I would be around the 10-12 mpg mark. My duramax gets about the same empty, on a good day. Some days it's more like 16. Pulling the cattle trailer with the same load, I'm running the same mileage. But the biggest difference is I can barely tell theres a load behind the duramax when I take off, where as its slower getting going with the gas. I will always have a diesel around for pulling the trailer, but I dont want to do much else with it. The 6.0 is a much better all around truck imo. But I also haven't really tried out a new 6.0 to compare to a new duramax. I dont like the '15 3500 6.0 we have at work.

I think these trannies with more gears just makes the motors lag more and work harder instead of being in a gear and staying there for a longer time. Too much jumping around. That's just my opinion though 

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The new engines are designed to produce more torque at lower rpms thus why more gears so there is smaller jumps between them. As far as fuel mileage thanks to EPA requirements they can never achieve the mileage that the old polluting more free breathing diesels could. Run these new ones at too high or rpms all you’re doing is burning more fuel not making more power.

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One year I drove a 478 CID IH gas V-8 powered FleetStar single axle semi tractor pulling a 45 ft dry box trailer. Straight 5-speed,  single speed axle, would run 62 mph on the flat, little less into a head wind, little faster with tail wind or downhill. Empty weight was around 22,000#, loaded was normally 30,000#, sometimes maybe 35,000#. Averaged 3.0 to 3-1/4 mpg. Probably a bit less than 3 mpg when making deliveries. That 478 was roughly 7.8L,  bit bigger than Ford's new 7.3L gas V-8. The new Ford should get better mpg than the old Binder did, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 mpg, but going from 3 to 3-1/4 mpg is a bit over 8% increase.  For comparison, the F700 Ford with 8.2L GM Fuel Pincher got about 7 mpg, it had 2 spd axle too. Same trailer, same loads. And that engine needed injection work about every 15,000-20,000 miles.  I think a guy could make a good case for a medium duty diesel semi-tractor if he hauls frequently enough.

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4 hours ago, searcyfarms said:

I got this info from hand calculated owner of a 2015 6.2 F250 dually CC 4x4 who uses his mainly for farm use/hauling flatbed trailer empy and loaded with his kubota tractor or car trailer with vehicles etc....nothing extremely heavy - kubota w/trailer and truck are around 15K lbs - he is usually pulling 6 to 9K lbs when towing or empty trailer at 2500 lbs before pickup of vehicle. I didnt ask what gear ratio. 

He disclosed his hand calculated mileage on his truck and it was as follows

In a years time he only has two tanks over 10mpg, one empty at 11.02 going to wichita and another 14.90 driving around in the snow. 

ALL of the rest are from 5 to 7 mpg which are loaded/trailer and then 7 to 9 empty - i didnt make this up, these are real world hand calculated numbers. 

that is scary bad if you ask me and ford is coming out with a 7.3 gasser that will likely be even more thirsty - our old 460 did that good and had a 3 speed trannie with no overdrive. 

I got 5 to 7 with my 351 windsor h.o. pulling my skid steer and 14 on hwy trips - it was a C6 w/o overdrive. 

With these gas figures how does a person justify going back to gas? 

I put on 25K minimum per yr and if i use 7mpg as an average @2.5$/gal thats ( current prices ) $8929/yr 
Diesel would be 15mpg ( what i avg in my diesel now ) $4650 @ 2.79/gal = $4279 savings

I came up with the diesel figure from using the same weights/mileages for empty vs towing and my personal numbers which are 

17.5 to 19 empty, 17 commuting while working empty around town, 15  towing empty skid steer trailer, 12 loaded at 18K GCWR. 

Using the figure of 9K for a diesel addon at purchase, so in a tad over 2 yrs i have paid for my diesel engine and have the resale to boot. 

In 300K miles which is the current state of my 03 diesel on that gasser i would have spent $107142 on gas
$55,800 on diesel = savings of $51342 - i realize i would have DEF costs and repairs for diesel are more expensive + reg maint, but what am i missing? 

I would think we could get a gasser that could do better than those numbers these days with better technology and 10 speed trannies etc.....WOW

I been wanting to go back gas but this doesnt make sense - thoughts anyone?

I drive a fleet of 6.2 Super Dutys everyday, they idle with all lights on and A/C full blast all day and when drove they are WOT, I have yet to get under 8mpg, not sure how your friend is able to achieve 5mpg...

 

7.3 will achieve the same mileage as the 6.2 while having a ton more power and gears, I have not heard anyone complain about 6.2 mileage but I sure have heard complaints about replacing the junk CP4.2 injection pump and fuel system on the 6.7 which cost 14k to replace...

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24 minutes ago, SMiller said:

I drive a fleet of 6.2 Super Dutys everyday

 

We do to.  We average 10-11 just putting around the farm.  Out on the highway you can get them up to 12.5.  Pulling any trailer then it’s half that on a good day.

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8 hours ago, yellowrosefarm said:

10 years ago we had over 50 diesel trucks at work, now down to less than 10 and those will eventually be phased out. Even F650 and F750's with V10 gas engines. We were also wondering when tractors would start going back to gas. 

The reason tractors using Diesel engines is because diesel engines has more torque than an engine on petrol. Also a gallon diesel fuel has more energy than a gallon gasoline.

 

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1 hour ago, SMiller said:

I drive a fleet of 6.2 Super Dutys everyday, they idle with all lights on and A/C full blast all day and when drove they are WOT, I have yet to get under 8mpg, not sure how your friend is able to achieve 5mpg...

 

7.3 will achieve the same mileage as the 6.2 while having a ton more power and gears, I have not heard anyone complain about 6.2 mileage but I sure have heard complaints about replacing the junk CP4.2 injection pump and fuel system on the 6.7 which cost 14k to replace...

the 7.3 projected numbers are not tremendous over the 6.2 so i wouldnt get too carried away ?

not sure what i will do yet but I wont be getting a 6.7 from the sounds of its history or any of the newer DPF critters from any maker - ive have some issues with my 6.0 but nothing like the 6.4/6.7s 

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I had a gas 2004 Chevy 1/2 ton. It got 5-7 pulling a 7k camper at 60 mph. I purchased a 2007 2500hd with a duromax to pull the same camper. It gets 10-12 on the same trip. It definitely pulls a lot better over the gas. They both got about the same on the highway when not pulling. The wife and I went from home in Indiana to Colorado and back to pick up the engine for my fire truck. The trip was about 2200 miles over 4 days and saw a high of 20 mpg and a low of 18.8 loaded with the engine. I like my truck especially for pulling. It gets about the same mpg as my 04 did on average. Sucks every time  have to change the oil and filters

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6 hours ago, New Englander said:

Well, my 6.0 just turned in 8 mpg at about 17,500 lb. on a 150 mile trip @ 65 mph 50% grades 50% flat,

My 8.1 got 8.5 @ 20,500 gross weight and this is up in the hills . 87 octane I believe that we get to the farm

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1 hour ago, bitty said:

My 8.1 got 8.5 @ 20,500 gross weight and this is up in the hills . 87 octane I believe that we get to the farm

At what speed?

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Just now, New Englander said:

At what speed?

Cruse control took me over steam valley @ 70. I have heard that the 6.0 drinks more than others . We used to get 10 mpg empty or loaded with the '81 dually we had. 454, 456 rears and 4x4

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32 minutes ago, jass1660 said:

You’ll get better mileage with the cruise off.

Not me. Lol

I tend to get in the throttle too much too often

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ok so more math.........since you all brought it up in fairness 

300K miles = 40 oil changes at 7500/each 20 fuel filter changes at 15K each

gasser = 40 diesel = 80 so add 40difference x40 = 1600 bucks more on diesel

fuel filters on diesel = 45 for kit x 20 times = 900 more on diesel so 2500 on diesel to add on

1 set of injectors on diesel for 300K = 2600 ( just had mine done at 220K ) so now were up to 5100 

still sitting at $46242 in savings on the diesel @ 25K miles /yrs at 300K miles

I didnt take out for DEF i have no idea how much that is mine doesnt use it - so take off another 1242 bucks for that. Down to $45K savings and still have the diesel resale? 

I dont honestly think my trucks work much at this point at 300K miles to someone so i would say pretty much moot after 300K miles on resale. 

But $45K seems worthy of checking out if nothing else, im just not sold on the quirks of the diesels these days 

I would miss my diesel im sure and i know every time i see the gas gauge going down on the 10mpg rig i would be a lil irritated - 

 

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12 hours ago, SMiller said:

New 7.3L gas ford motor with the 10-speed auto and 4.30 gears will do the job of any diesel pickup truck while requiring no def, maintenance, or $100 oil changes...

 

I am driving my last diesel.

Was talking about this the other night. I’m not a ford man but I’m intrigued, unfortunately I suspect the 7.3 will be a big price jump from the 6.2 if a gas costs 11-12 k more than another gas, I suspect it’s not going to be a big seller. The 8.1 was a great engine, but the added cost both at purchase and fuel economy wise was a tough sell. 

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5 hours ago, searcyfarms said:

 

not sure what i will do yet but I wont be getting a 6.7 from the sounds of its history or any of the newer DPF critters from any maker - ive have some issues with my 6.0 but nothing like the 6.4/6.7s 

You're joking right.  6.7s are all over the place around here and they have not been no where near the trouble the 6.0 and 6.4 was.  I thought IH got sued over those engines.  I can't think of any of those engines still around here.  I think you have it backwards. 

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yes ford/navistar duked it out over the 6.0 not sure on the 6.4 - the 6.0 is cheap to fix and be good for long miles relatively speaking compared to the 6.4, you have two options when fixing a 6.4, 12K for fuel system or 20K for fuel/engine rebuild. The only way to truly fix a 6.4 is what i have been told.

The 6.7 is starting to show its colors, head issues. fuel issues, injectors stretching/breaking, and then the dreaded death wobble and dpf issues/valvesnhead debacle - I think for the most part a 6.7 is much better overall but not like ford had hoped but its hard to dig out of 6.0/6.4 hole and you throw dpf on top of all their issues and its even more tough. 

The local guy here that does my personal work on the 6.0 and owns all flavors says this, he would take a 6.0 all day long - run from a 6.4 unless you can buy it for 1500 bucks with a blown engine in good shape and throw 20K in it and have a good truck - OR - i bought a 6.7 wife drove it for 250 miles chk engine light came on i fixed that problem and i drove it 20 miles and i came back with a new problem so its been parks for 7 mos i dont want to mess with it.............he has too many other 6.7 to fix - that was just two mos ago whn i was at his shop 

super duty service is who he is, has a complete machine shop and does top knotch work you can find him all over you tube - he videos his repairs etc......hes does it right or not at all - 

i would highly recommend him and his shop - i never had nothing but trouble from another local private ford shop with a certified ford mech who went on his own and of course ford never fixed my problems they just wore me out till my wty was gone then i was on my own 

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