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966 VS 4020

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Heck

1 minute ago, TP from Central PA said:

It works pretty good......better than the gasser years ago.    I would rather have something easier for the employees(kids) to run, but it hasn't left yet and probably won't.

Not the best or the worst for a learner tractor. The free wheel with the T/A was a cinch(remember when you stalled the Cub Cadet Hydro on a hill? Same thing) I started my son on it. I kept things pretty tight brakes,tires,steering and so forth.

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10 minutes ago, dale560 said:

A sister who isn’t on the trust wants everything for nothing and mom and dad transferred machinery to trust so it wouldn’t get confiscated one time. Now we are trying to straighten mess out.

Family members pass and most people only care about what they have or money 😔   it's sad but that's some people's mentality I guess. 

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9 minutes ago, dale560 said:

North Dakota. 560 is actually pretty rough dad bought it from a tractor jockey in 89. He sold a wd45 that was my brother and I and bought this. We painted then it and used it a bunch mowing and raking. The motor had a cracked sleeve and TA was welded together. So we had a 660 we scrapped and put  ta housing on this one and pulled a couple sleeves out of that block and put in here. The ta bearing or something went bad a few years ago so tractor sat. I did pull start and run into shed last year so it runs. No 3 point or anything on any of the tractors but one 8630 and 4020 has 3 point. I am hoping to have auction company internet sale stuff so when or if it gets done  I will post sale bill. A sister who isn’t on the trust wants everything for nothing and mom and dad transferred machinery to trust so it wouldn’t get confiscated one time. Now we are trying to straighten mess out.

Heck I thought you were in Ohio. Lots of equipment between here and North Dakota. The rubber on those Deeres looks good . 23 degree Firestones?

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3 minutes ago, exSW said:

Heck I thought you were in Ohio. Lots of equipment between here and North Dakota. The rubber on those Deeres looks good . 23 degree Firestones?

The closest 8630 has 20.8 34 cast duals it had all new firestone tires in the early 90s but they are weathered a lot. That one has 3 pt and blade but clutch is out and engine hasn’t been run for 6 or 7 years. The other 8630 has had used inner Firestone’s put on a few years ago . that one the works but needs some love.

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20 hours ago, dale560 said:

Dad has a turbo 806 and a turbo 966. Both duals both have the same cab so should roughly be the same weight. 806 has 18.4 34 duals 966 has 18.4 38. Back in the 80s we used to use either one on a 14 ft 620 drill with a vibra shank cultivator ahead of the drill. In real hilly land the 806 would outpull the 966 it wasn’t even close. The 966 would spin like crazy and you would have to idle down half throttle to get any traction. The 806 with 34 inch tires would just drive up the hill no problem . Both tractors had same equipment and should have weighed within 500 lbs of each other.  So I can see a 80 jd lugging down and not spinning out pulling a 966.

I have a turbocharged 966, factory engine other than turbo, cooling fan and clutch upgrade.  Dad has a 4020 synchro with a 404 turbocharged engine from a 7720 combine in it.  The 4020 will pull almost what the 966 will, but it will overheat if it's pulling that hard.  It pulled our 9 shank chisel plow in sixth gear easy enough, but was redlining hot after one field pass.  My nine will pull it in high second all day while keeping it's cool.  Both darn good tractors imo, but if I could only keep one around it would be the 966, no contest.

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6 hours ago, TP from Central PA said:

I would hope a 404 was better than a 282, the math says it clearly should be.  Compare that same 404 to a 361 which was built at the same time, IH knew how to build a power plant and to say otherwise is crazy.  Deere's engines were not the worst by far, they held up ok and were reliable, but definitely not something to stop at a pay phone and call home about because it was scortching the earth up with all the power it was making.  Although I guess if you came from a 2 cylinder they would be earth shattering.

Here we go.....  I have a 706 with 282 with m&w (dinosaur) turbo and a synchro 4020 with 404.  Any job I can do with the 4020 I can do with the 706 on less fuel.  That includes pulling an allis 2500 15 foot disk sunk to the center shaft.  And the 706 will do it on less fuel..... At one time this farm had a 4010, 2 4020s and a 4320.  Only one left is one 4020.  It was dads favorite tractor so it will never go, but it doesnt get used much.  The ih's will do the same work on less fuel, and if linkages are adjusted correctly shift fine.  Oh, and my 706 will start at 15 degrees without plugging in (so will the 4020) just have to cycle the plugs 45 seconds instead of 30.  Ok boys, flame away! 👨‍🚒

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So we got a D282 and a 404 starting at 15 degrees...........must be using the Celsius scale for temperature?

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7 hours ago, Reichow7120 said:

Really??? The one in our semi isn't that bad at all. I know that ive started it about 15 degrees out without either or a block heater plugged in and it started. Yeah you cranked but you never felt it wasn't going to start. That 270. Below 45 degrees, you plug it in because its not going to start otherwise without either 

I am talking about late 60s, 70s, early 80s 855s keeping it in the same time period as the current argument on IH vs the 404.   The newest 855 we had was in our 8960.  We never tried to start it at 15 degrees but the sun would have to be shining on the block on a calm sunny day to even have a chance.  All them old Versatiles would start hard once you got down into the 50s.  Still have an 855 in my Bud and another one in a 1980 Ford dump truck.  Both of them will not start without some assistance be it either, plugged in, or battery booster/cables below 50. 

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57 minutes ago, TP from Central PA said:

So we got a D282 and a 404 starting at 15 degrees...........must be using the Celsius scale for temperature?

I'm in Nebraska no Celsius from me.  I dont understand the starting issues so many claim to have with either the later 282's or the 4020's.  My 706 and 656 will both start as colder or colder than my 5488 with the inline pump without plugging in.  Good batteries, good injection pump, good glow plug system and they will go.  Maybe a little white smoke at first, but they will go.  I need to add, though, that this is in a building.  Noninsulated metal building, but the old timers always said a metal building adds 10 degrees to the outside temp.  Whether you believe me or not doesnt concern me, but I will tell you I do this every winter.  I will say the 560 my grandpa had might start at 40 degrees, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it

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3 hours ago, TP from Central PA said:

Don't look, just load........keep me posted Dale.

And exSW, put your foot in your mouth:lol:  One of those PITA's is sitting here....

560spreader.thumb.JPG.13b657770bb8266608056f4344fcde63.JPG

 

Is that a Minneapolis moline manure spreader hooked up to 560?

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1 minute ago, Big Bud guy said:

I am talking about late 60s, 70s, early 80s 855s keeping it in the same time period as the current argument on IH vs the 404.   The newest 855 we had was in our 8960.  We never tried to start it at 15 degrees but the sun would have to be shining on the block on a calm sunny day to even have a chance.  All them old Versatiles would start hard once you got down into the 50s.  Still have an 855 in my Bud and another one in a 1980 Ford dump truck.  Both of them will not start without some assistance be it either, plugged in, or battery booster/cables. 

8960. Wouldn't that be late 80s early 90s Deere? If so that would put it in the same time frame as our semi truck. 1988 International 9370 Eagle. So we would be comparing apples to apples on that one. Using it to haul grain in the late fall and winter there are times when ive tested the cold start ability of the 855.

Heck of it is. In my opinion when Deere went to the 60 series 4 wheelers. They finally got it right. Those 30 and 40 series, head gasket eaters weren't the answer. Stieger and Versatile had it figured out. Deere finally got it right on that series on the 4wd front.

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1 minute ago, Reichow7120 said:

8960. Wouldn't that be late 80s early 90s Deere? If so that would put it in the same time frame as our semi truck. 1988 International 9370 Eagle. So we would be comparing apples to apples on that one. Using it to haul grain in the late fall and winter there are times when ive tested the cold start ability of the 855.

Heck of it is. In my opinion when Deere went to the 60 series 4 wheelers. They finally got it right. Those 30 and 40 series, head gasket eaters weren't the answer. Stieger and Versatile had it figured out. Deere finally got it right on that series on the 4wd front.

 

21 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

I am talking about late 60s, 70s, early 80s 855s keeping it in the same time period as the current argument on IH vs the 404.   The newest 855 we had was in our 8960.  We never tried to start it at 15 degrees but the sun would have to be shining on the block on a calm sunny day to even have a chance.  All them old Versatiles would start hard once you got down into the 50s.  Still have an 855 in my Bud and another one in a 1980 Ford dump truck.  Both of them will not start without some assistance be it either, plugged in, or battery booster/cables below 50. 

Our 8960 and 9170 both were big cam 400 Cummins. They both started decent in the cold if needed . Both were '89 models

The 60 series were the first decent articulated ones JD made. Had the pressure lubed trans instead of the transmission driven pump that you couldn't coast in gear or it lost lube 

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29 minutes ago, TP from Central PA said:

Dale, that 966 a straight drawbar tractor?

Yes and his 1566 is.

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The thing with Cummins 855 and cat engines also as hp goes up timing  and compression go down. You can have a 260 hp big cam with 15 or 15.5 compression and fast timing and camshaft set advanced then go to a 400 hp or 450 it can go to 13.5 and slow camshaft and timing. There are probably a 1000 variations of compression, injector and camshaft timing between all those engines.

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1 hour ago, TP from Central PA said:

So we got a D282 and a 404 starting at 15 degrees...........must be using the Celsius scale for temperature?

Haven't spent any extended time around the 404s but I have 4 d282s here (2 706s and 2 560s) and all but one will start at 15 without being plugged in if they absolutely need to. It takes a full minute of glow plugs and good batteries or a jump but it is possible. 

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Only older engines here that would start in that temp other than gas tractors would be the 400 series IH's................If the D282's started that good everyone would have put them on spreaders here as nearly everyone had to haul dairy crap every day, and out of all the D282 tractors, I knew of nobody using them in the winter on the spreader.  I got 2 group 31's in mine, it starts good, but it would never light at 15 without being plugged in.  The D282 706 and D301 715 that were here were the same...........and the 715 didn't have many hours on it. 

IH986..........That is a old Shultz "Spreadmaster" spreader........

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On 6/20/2019 at 2:29 PM, Big Bud guy said:

 

They didn’t want to look like they were following JD in my opinion when they lost the lead. The hydro also IMO was thrown out there so IH could stand out and not look like they were acknowledging JD.   How does a company that put the first successfull partial powershift on the market not follow up with a full PS?  Didn’t some of their crawlers have a powershift?  

TD-24 in 1947

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32 minutes ago, Farmall Doctor said:

Add 3 more D282 powered tractors to the list that will start in the extreme cold. 

+1 and its flat worn out.

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9 hours ago, Reichow7120 said:

If so that would put it in the same time frame as our semi truck. 1988 International 9370 Eagle. So we would be comparing apples to apples on that one. Using it to haul grain in the late fall and winter there are times when ive tested the cold start ability of the 855.

Company I drove for had a lot of 855's, mostly 350's,  think there were two 400's.  Starting was never an issue, only time they were shut off in winter was to fill with fuel and check the oil.  Even my 903 started pretty good,  needed a sniff of ether on most cold days but only remember having to pump up the starter tank twice because it didn't start.  Was a couple nights I let it idle all night. It would start wet-stacking within an hour and you did NOT want to be down wind of that gray smoke it puked out.  Driving buddy lived 3-4 miles away and his little Detroit in his S2200 started O-K,  but I'm sure he let it idle all night on cold days too.

The usage of most trucks is totally different than most ag equipment. Probably most similar to chore tractors on dairy farms, except trucks run all day.

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19 hours ago, RKO said:

The deere 404 was a lot better than the old glow plug 560. You need to compare same years. .  Also the 202 219 and 239 Deere engined are better than IH had at the time.  If you think the 404 was deeres only engine you have Bern under a rock 

 

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The JD 404 was a joke couin't even ruin with a IH 806 let alone a 400 series IH motor and yes I'm comparing the same years. The JD 466 was the first motor that could run with a 400 series motor.. Ever tried to start a JD 404 motor in the cold ?

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2 hours ago, Farmall Doctor said:

Add 3 more D282 powered tractors to the list that will start in the extreme cold. 

That with straight 30 weight????  CNH 30 weight of course?

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OK, now that everyone has vented........

I worked for a guy with a new 756. His best friend was JD and had a 4020. Both tractors were stock. They did a lot of stuff together including chopping corn. Hate to say this but at 101 HP the 4020 far outclassed the 756. The 4020 would pull a 5X16 plow at the same speeds as the 756 pulled a 4X16 too. A 14' disk is what was recommended in this area max for the 756 while the 4020 would handle up to about 20'. The guy I worked for got into money trouble in the 80's while the other guy? The farm is now being farmed by his son. 

As far as fuel usage? I remember guys talking about what their respective tractors would do. Don't ever recall a discussion about fuel prices. Only time I ever heard that was my own dad. And fuel economy was everything to him.

Interestingly we did have a guy here who bought a new 656. Gas. Everyone was telling him he was foolish. He kept telling people that diesel was going to cost more than gas one day (back then road gas was 33 a gallon for regular and diesel was a little over 1/2 that. He passed away before anyone saw that happen but his guess was correct. Just his timing was off.

Rick   

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