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Mudfly

Dealer oil changes - tightening oil filters

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Question for you mechanics.

I've always been taught oil filter are hand tight plus about a half turn to 3/4 turn to compress the gasket.  Is there a torque spec on oil filters?

The reason I ask is that I had a dealer change the oil in my truck and when I went to change it the next time it was all I had to turn the filter loose, probably 90 - 100 ft lbs on the filter.  I also had to get a longer ratchet to break open the drain plug in the oil pan.

Just now I got a call on the wife’s car (2017  Toyota Highlander) that went in for the 20,000 mile complimentary service.  They broke the oil filter housing off because they overtightened the filter last oil change.  Luckily the dealer is paying for the repair, but they have to go aftermarket because no OEM filter mounts available for 2 weeks.

If I was the shop manager I’d be all over the crew on the oil change lanes today.

 

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ihere's  all the truth in the old saying if you want it done right, do it yourself.  it least you know to blame.😖

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9 minutes ago, Mudfly said:

Question for you mechanics.

I've always been taught oil filter are hand tight plus about a half turn to 3/4 turn to compress the gasket.  Is there a torque spec on oil filters?

The reason I ask is that I had a dealer change the oil in my truck and when I went to change it the next time it was all I had to turn the filter loose, probably 90 - 100 ft lbs on the filter.  I also had to get a longer ratchet to break open the drain plug in the oil pan.

Just now I got a call on the wife’s car (2017  Toyota Highlander) that went in for the 20,000 mile complimentary service.  They broke the oil filter housing off because they overtightened the filter last oil change.  Luckily the dealer is paying for the repair, but they have to go aftermarket because no OEM filter mounts available for 2 weeks.

If I was the shop manager I’d be all over the crew on the oil change lanes today.

 

Kinda common here. Most places don't have mechanics doing oil changes. Often it's someone they hired off the street with little or no experience. 

 

Rick

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3 minutes ago, oldtanker said:

Kinda common here. Most places don't have mechanics doing oil changes. Often it's someone they hired off the street with little or no experience. 

 

Rick

Yeah but how hard is it to do half a day of training.  Tighten by hand, use wrench to turn it 1/2 way around.  It’s not rocket surgery.

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10 minutes ago, Mudfly said:

Yeah but how hard is it to do half a day of training.  Tighten by hand, use wrench to turn it 1/2 way around.  It’s not rocket surgery.

And then constantly warn these kids about leaking oil filters because they were not tightened and drain plugs falling out? No, it isn't rocket surgery. 

Heck my own son in law who grew up on a farm had been told and told and told about filters leaking because they were not tightened all the way. While he was still dating my daughter he over tightened everything and stripped out the drain plug in his truck. He knows how to do it now thanks to a kindly older man who taught him how to do it right.

 

Rick

 

 

 

 

 

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How many of those oil changers got reamed out    for not tightening the drain plug and oil filter and it  cost the shop a bunch. It happens.  One of my vehicles requires a good deal of torque to tighten it properly.  I think because it is a small filter but not sure.  At any rate, when I got that car I was reading the operators manual and it told you just how to remove oil drain plug to change oil.  But, then it went on to say to take it to a dealer to get the filter off as they were installed very tight. Right in the book. Crazy. 

Also depends on what lube is put on the gasket.

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I've always been taught oil filter are hand tight plus about a half turn to 3/4 turn to compress the gasket.  Is there a torque spec on oil filters?

Huh?  I always thought it was the 1/2-3/4-1 turn after the gasket contacted the base?  If I tightened hand tight plus 1/2-3/4 turn I’d need to torch the filter off next time.  I know what you are talking about as one many moons ago my dad had the dealer change oil on our Case skidsteer which was something I normally did (and still do).  The dealer had the filter cranked so tight I about had it destroyed before it came loose.  

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17 minutes ago, Gearclash said:

Huh?  I always thought it was the 1/2-3/4-1 turn after the gasket contacted the base?  If I tightened hand tight plus 1/2-3/4 turn I’d need to torch the filter off next time.  I know what you are talking about as one many moons ago my dad had the dealer change oil on our Case skidsteer which was something I normally did (and still do).  The dealer had the filter cranked so tight I about had it destroyed before it came loose.  

You described what I meant better with the “gasket contact plus half turn” vs hand tight plus half turn.

About half the time, I can remove filters I have installed by hand and they haven’t leaked so they don’t need to be highly torqued to seal.

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I tighten a filter with 2 hands and done.

When they come back, a wrench is needed to remove. 

Assume due to swollen gasket, dunno. 

I will say I use a wrench to snug the deezel filters but no 1/2 or 3/4 turn.

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1st time I changed hyd filters on my 2188 I ended up removing the base and filter as a unit & clamping base in vise as I had to get radical to screw filter off. Just was afraid of breaking filter base the way it is mounted on combine !         :D

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MX240 trying to remove second hydraulic filter not the big one. Had a wrench on it and the case was rotating on the integral filter base. Luckily could remove the filter base put in vise and cut away the filter and base so we could save the filter holder. Those filters are under pressure and yes call for contact plus 3/4 turn more but are on such a location and your hands are oily you need to snug with a belt wrench. 

John

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hand tight , half a turn more No wrench 

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Exactly why I do my own. Had to drive a punch through the filter once after dealer changed oil for first oil change. Another time was with a buddy and he stopped at a quick oil change and the truck that was up on the hoist to get oil change and the mechanic was using an air wrench to remove the plug. I don't have to tell you all how that ended up. What a mess!!!

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11 minutes ago, littletom said:

Wife once had most of oil run out with in few mins of leaving dealership,

From an oil filter or plug not being tightened?

the only time I’ve seen that is when they weren’t tightened at all or if the original gasket didn’t come off with the old filter so there were 2 rubber gaskets that didn’t seal.

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13 minutes ago, Mudfly said:

From an oil filter or plug not being tightened?

the only time I’ve seen that is when they weren’t tightened at all or if the original gasket didn’t come off with the old filter so there were 2 rubber gaskets that didn’t seal.

I know of 2 instances where oil plugs fell out within just a few miles of an oil change at quick lube places and another that was at a full service station. Guys in the back took turns running out to fill up cars. Guy had finihed up under a car, had let it down when he had to take his turn. Owner of the place saw that the lift was down, told the owner there you go and sent the guy off with no oil in it. I don't know why the owner didn't check for oil pressure? Or if it was an idiot light. But I know they guy who was doing the oil change and I know the guy who was the owner. They both tell the same story.

Rick 

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I always go as tight as I can get with one hand only, then back it off 1/8 turn, then tighten back 1/2 the back off distance to make sure the gasket isn't bunched up.  I think the last step to seat the gasket is very important. 

3/4 of the time they come off by hand, otherwise a quick tug on the wrench. 

Always use fresh oil on the gasket and pre-fill when the filter position allows. 

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Yesterday I changed Hyd oil and spin on filter on my Dresser 530 loader. It's a large (probably a gallon) heavy steel filter with a nut for a 3'4" socket on the bottom. This is the only time I have seen this printed on the filter. It says torque to 35 to 40lbs which I did.

DWF

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I bought my first new vehicle ever in 2013, a ford f150. I decided I was going to have a Ford dealer do all the service on the truck so I would have all the service records and if there were a warranty problem, they should take care of it. I had never taken anything I owned for an oil change or pretty much for any service. The new truck came with two free oil changes so I thought I would take advantage of that.Had oil changed and a week later I pulled the dipstick and found it to be almost three quarts low. Now I have a new truck with 5,000 miles on it and I have to add three quarts of oil!!   No leaks so I begin to thing I got a lemon. Pretty  much got a run around from the dealer who did the oil change and so I went to another dealer and changed the oil again and it never used any oil as long as I owned it. My guess is they never filled the engine the first time. My engine was the 5.0 which held almost eight quarts and the 3.5 only holds about five quarts. I would have thought someone would have pulled the dipstick before it went out the door. I now have an 18 and still take it to the dealer, but I always check their work and I might save five bucks on the oil change if I did it myself but I'm getting too damn old and I'm going to let someone else take care of at least one rig.

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Boss at a garage I worked at as a kid was given the task of keeping his pill popping nephew in line. No matter how many times he was told he would strip out drain plugs. He'd be told that the plug was big to let the oil out but tightening a 1" hex into sheet metal on the end of the  wrench was way too much! No matter, he popped more pills and talked everybody's ear off.

The solution: "Sandy's wrenches". We took a whole set of cheap wrenches and cut them so short that he couldn't get enough leverage to strip oil pans out. We labeled them all and he was so proud of them! They were always nice and clean.

Same kid dropped a tire plug into rubber cement. A couple of days later it had swollen to about three times the size it started and Sandy figured it was growing, so he set about "growing" a whole tray of them. The pills had quite softened his brain by then.

Had to watch him closely and make sure he didn't use a wrench to install a spin-on or it would never come off. I don't think he could read so telling him to read the directions - "hand tighten only" was an exercise in futility.

I install according to the directions. Aircraft spin-ons have a hex and a torque value. Some brands say to lube with engine oil and others specifically say NOT to lube due to different gasket material. It seems that just about all filters have some directions printed on them so it would seem that taking the time to read and follow rather than doing what your uncle told you is a little smarter.

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From one manufacturer. The directions on the filter say "DO NOT LUBE"

Spin-EZ™ Solid Lubricant – Tempest Spin-EZ oil filter's proprietary solid lubricant allows for easy removal of the filter. Unlike oil, grease or DC4 compound that leave the filter seemingly "bonded" to the engines mount pad, making it nearly impossible to remove, our Spin-EZ solid lubricant wont extrude or squirt out from under the seal; allowing for removal without a fight.

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Many of these people need to have their cordless impact drivers taken away. I can’t count the number of stripped, cross threaded or just plain over tightened bolts I’ve had to deal with. Drain plugs and filters are no exception. So many people get in n a hurry with one of those and just shove a bolt in a hole and squeeze then trigger, never mind starting the threads. I had to repair 2 intake bolt holes I’m my FIL’s S10, my jeep caliper bolts, and I’ve had to drill out several wheel studs because they just keep squeezing on the trigger till the gun stops turning. Seems like half the time I take something somewhere to be fixed I end up fixing what has been fouled up. Most of the time it’s just carelessness and too much speed. Sometimes taking an extra minute saves hours. 

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13 hours ago, wild one said:

I bought my first new vehicle ever in 2013, a ford f150. I decided I was going to have a Ford dealer do all the service on the truck so I would have all the service records and if there were a warranty problem, they should take care of it. I had never taken anything I owned for an oil change or pretty much for any service. The new truck came with two free oil changes so I thought I would take advantage of that.Had oil changed and a week later I pulled the dipstick and found it to be almost three quarts low. Now I have a new truck with 5,000 miles on it and I have to add three quarts of oil!!   No leaks so I begin to thing I got a lemon. Pretty  much got a run around from the dealer who did the oil change and so I went to another dealer and changed the oil again and it never used any oil as long as I owned it. My guess is they never filled the engine the first time. My engine was the 5.0 which held almost eight quarts and the 3.5 only holds about five quarts. I would have thought someone would have pulled the dipstick before it went out the door. I now have an 18 and still take it to the dealer, but I always check their work and I might save five bucks on the oil change if I did it myself but I'm getting too damn old and I'm going to let someone else take care of at least one rig.

Been paying to have mine changed for a while now. To darned crippled up to be crawling under a car to save a few bucks.

19 minutes ago, vtfireman85 said:

Many of these people need to have their cordless impact drivers taken away. I can’t count the number of stripped, cross threaded or just plain over tightened bolts I’ve had to deal with. Drain plugs and filters are no exception. So many people get in n a hurry with one of those and just shove a bolt in a hole and squeeze then trigger, never mind starting the threads. I had to repair 2 intake bolt holes I’m my FIL’s S10, my jeep caliper bolts, and I’ve had to drill out several wheel studs because they just keep squeezing on the trigger till the gun stops turning. Seems like half the time I take something somewhere to be fixed I end up fixing what has been fouled up. Most of the time it’s just carelessness and too much speed. Sometimes taking an extra minute saves hours. 

Seth I was helping a friend who have never used air tools but had a big compressor that would do the work. When I was helping him out I showed him that you start a bolt or nut by hand and turned it in a little to make sure it wasn't cross threaded. Couple months later he cross threaded some bolt holes in a casting on his 8950. He admitted that he hadn't tried starting them by hand. Was just in a rush. Couple of thread inserts and he was good to go.

 

Rick

 

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10 hours ago, vtfireman85 said:

Many of these people need to have their cordless impact drivers taken away. I can’t count the number of stripped, cross threaded or just plain over tightened bolts I’ve had to deal with. Drain plugs and filters are no exception. So many people get in n a hurry with one of those and just shove a bolt in a hole and squeeze then trigger, never mind starting the threads. I had to repair 2 intake bolt holes I’m my FIL’s S10, my jeep caliper bolts, and I’ve had to drill out several wheel studs because they just keep squeezing on the trigger till the gun stops turning. Seems like half the time I take something somewhere to be fixed I end up fixing what has been fouled up. Most of the time it’s just carelessness and too much speed. Sometimes taking an extra minute saves hours. 

Speaking of this I've got a Wrangler in the shop right now that I have to drill out 8 (YES EIGHT) lug studs because some Neanderthal knucklehead whaled on the owner's spline lugnuts holding the 1.25" wheel spacers on. 

She's not gonna like the repair bill, but I'm not eating it.  Bad enough I'm going to end up burning up a bunch of $ in drill bits just to get it done.

 

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24 minutes ago, 5088 said:

Speaking of this I've got a Wrangler in the shop right now that I have to drill out 8 (YES EIGHT) lug studs because some Neanderthal knucklehead whaled on the owner's spline lugnuts holding the 1.25" wheel spacers on. 

She's not gonna like the repair bill, but I'm not eating it.  Bad enough I'm going to end up burning up a bunch of $ in drill bits just to get it done.

 

I found the wrangler studs to drill fairly easy, factory gm 8 lug, not so much. Just keep the lube to it, WD works wonders with the straw you can get plenty of douching where it's needed. 

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