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oldtech

706 D starter solenoid

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OK its been a really long time since I worked on on this new so dont laugh.

Im helping a friend get a 706D running.  The starter appeared to be dead but when I jump to the starter side of the solenoid the starter spins but does not energize the solenoid which is the type that also pushes the starter gear into the ring gear.

Now, if memory serves I should be able to short to the solenoid contact and get it to engage, right?  It doesnt.

So, does this mean that the solenoid is dead?  The entire starter assembly looks pretty new so Im a bit surprised at that but it has been sitting outside for a long time.

Also steering wheel just spins.  Will this firm up when the hydraulics power up?  My 966 did not do this.

I previously posted about this tractor when we first found it.

Lost 706 D

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You need to jump from the big stud the battery cables connect to and the smaller terminal labeled S. It's between the 2 bigger posts.

Make sure it's in neutral though!

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7 minutes ago, FarmerFixEmUp said:

You need to jump from the big stud the battery cables connect to and the smaller terminal labeled S. It's between the 2 bigger posts.

Make sure it's in neutral though!

Yeah thats what I did and NADA.  So I guess that means that the solenoid is bad?  Odd because it looks new.

  I never had that class of tractor with a standard transmission so I was concerned about being gear but it had been towed to its current location and the engine wasnt turning.  Guess Ill have to figure the shifters out wont i?  :P

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The brushes could be bad or stuck. If they don't contact the armature nothing will happen. I've tapped starters with a hammer or hitch pin while holding the button and sometimes they take right off. 

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14 minutes ago, FarmerFixEmUp said:

The brushes could be bad or stuck. If they don't contact the armature nothing will happen. I've tapped starters with a hammer or hitch pin while holding the button and sometimes they take right off. 

The starter spins just fine.  The solenoid does not even click.  Could it not be grounded right?

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Could be, use some jumper cables to ground to the battery. Maybe the drive is stuck on armature shaft and not engaging flywheel. Might want to take the starter off and check it out. 

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If there is no spark when jumping to s terminal. Solenoid is bad. If there is spark then either solenoid or drive are stuck.

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Solenoid grounds through starter. Starter runs so solenoid is grounded.

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4 hours ago, snoshoe said:

If there is no spark when jumping to s terminal. Solenoid is bad. If there is spark then either solenoid or drive are stuck.

If the solenoid is stuck can it be unfrozen somehow?  Of does that mean that its done?

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If it sparks when you short to s terminal it means that you have a connection to ground. If it doesn't click it means plunger can't move. You would have to remove solenoid to see if plunger is stuck in solenoid. Drive stuck to shaft or some other mechanical problem

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Is there any possibility that this starter has the "safety switch ground pin" on it?   IIRC, the IH only had 3 terminals,  Battery, Starter, and (small) switch.  If so and you get no spark or click or anything, the solenoid coil is bad.  Being "new" makes that more likely not less, unfortunately! 

 If the starter has 4 terminals (two small), the other small terminal usually is hooked up to a grounding neutral safety switch and that can cause the problem you describe (but IH shouldn't have that).   Barely possible somebody put the wrong solenoid on it?

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2 hours ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

Is there any possibility that this starter has the "safety switch ground pin" on it?   IIRC, the IH only had 3 terminals,  Battery, Starter, and (small) switch.  If so and you get no spark or click or anything, the solenoid coil is bad.  Being "new" makes that more likely not less, unfortunately! 

 If the starter has 4 terminals (two small), the other small terminal usually is hooked up to a grounding neutral safety switch and that can cause the problem you describe (but IH shouldn't have that).   Barely possible somebody put the wrong solenoid on it?

Well its not "NEW" it just looks like it was replaced not long ago as it is black and silver.  But it has been sitting outside for years.

It is definitely 3 terminals with only one small one.

No click or sign of life on the solenoid terminal at all.

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After sitting outside my bet is on finding the plunger stuck in the solenoid, especially if the boot is damaged.

There are two coils inside the the solenoid. The smaller hold in winding is grounded to the solenoid case. The larger winding is the pull in coil. It grounds through the starter brushes. Once the solenoid makes contact between the two large studs that coil now has equal voltage on both end of the coil and no longer exerts any force on the plunger.

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Before we get lost in details is there or is there not a spark when jumping at the s terminal. Pull in coil draws somewhere around 70 amps. Makes some serious fire. Not hard to tell.

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5 hours ago, snoshoe said:

Before we get lost in details is there or is there not a spark when jumping at the s terminal. Pull in coil draws somewhere around 70 amps. Makes some serious fire. Not hard to tell.

 

5 hours ago, snoshoe said:

Before we get lost in details is there or is there not a spark when jumping at the s terminal. Pull in coil draws somewhere around 70 amps. Makes some serious fire. Not hard to tell.

No.  Nothing at all.

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3 minutes ago, oldtech said:

 

No.  Nothing at all.

Replace solenoid

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