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Reliance Over haul kit quality


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We just talked about this a few weeks back and here is some more proof of what there putting out . This is out of a brand X tractor, short block motor  and he brought it to my shop yesterday to dyno it per the vendor  to break it in with the oil from yellow wheels . They did 30 acres with it and there was blow by like no other !! Dyno test was 218 hp on this 4955 . I said the break in oil and dyno is not going to fix this 😳 I had to set a pail under the blow your tube to catch the oil 😳😳  

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I have been busy and have not had time to let you guys know what I have found out last week . My phone rings and there is this very nice man on the other end and ask me if I was Danny Anderson , he in

Like Dale said , Caterpillar has one of the best setups I have used , rod is on the piston and it has a sleeve on the piston and the rings are installed , just install the bearing and drop it in the h

I just saw a fresh Reliance 436 kit. Proper tin manifold gaskets, proper rubber top cover gasket, one piece pan gasket. Head gasket is graphite coated just like all the others. The rubberized IH head

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Poor casting quality?  That metal surface doesn’t look forged to me so that’s why I’m guessing a casting.

Or was it improper machining?

Either way, that should be fixed under warranty.  What else did it take out?  Valves?  Head?  

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Yes on JD I only use JD kits. We had problems with a reliance kit a few weeks ago haven’t pulled it apart yet though. I suspect the same thing as yours although this one made it 5 years. I don’t even know what can you get for a good ihc kit any more? 

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7 minutes ago, dale560 said:

Yes on JD I only use JD kits. We had problems with a reliance kit a few weeks ago haven’t pulled it apart yet though. I suspect the same thing as yours although this one made it 5 years. I don’t even know what can you get for a good ihc kit any more? 

I've heard good things about Maxiforce. Haven't tried them yet though. 

https://maxiforce.com/

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6 minutes ago, gordon76 said:

yes if you are building a diesel where do you get a quality kit for a gas? 

Or what if you have a non-turbo tractor?

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Wonder if they will blame it on installation error and only cove parts or nothing.

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I would have liked to see the oil control ring , it could have possibly been cracked or broken when installing on the piston as they are they are the least ductile of rings. possibly also a poorly machined ring land.

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Ive been dealing with Reliance issues on a 1655 Oliver diesel i rebuilt for a buddy this winter. He bought the parts for me to put in it. Crap rings. That tractor has been giving me ulcers trying to get it right. I saw the Reliance boxes after he got them. And i thought (Oh S--- , Here we go ") But finding non Reliance parts for a Waukesha engine is pretty tough to do. 

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A while back I got a card in the mail from Riley Tractor Parts that they took over the Powr Seal name that M&W used years ago. I'm wondering what engines they will be covering. I emailed them and hopefully they'll respond soon. I mentioned this in a post a while back. 

 

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4 hours ago, gordon76 said:

yes if you are building a diesel where do you get a quality kit for a gas? 

 

4 hours ago, FarmallFan said:

Or what if you have a non-turbo tractor?

What about Clevite or Sealed Power? It's been a while since I've done a gas engine overhaul, and the last ones I used Reliance. No issues except the gaskets aren't very good in my opinion. 

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3 minutes ago, FarmerFixEmUp said:

the last ones I used Reliance. No issues except the gaskets aren't very good in my opinion

same here but with all the issues I have seen people having lately with reliance I,m not so sure i want to use them any longer might be OK for a parade tractor but i have 3 to do that will end up put back to work and want a kit with a better reputation

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6 hours ago, DirtBoyz07 said:

We just talked about this a few weeks back and here is some more proof of what there putting out . This is out of a brand X tractor, short block motor  and he brought it to my shop yesterday to dyno it per the vendor  to break it in with the oil from yellow wheels . They did 30 acres with it and there was blow by like no other !! Dyno test was 218 hp on this 4955 . I said the break in oil and dyno is not going to fix this 😳 I had to set a pail under the blow your tube to catch the oil 😳😳  

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I'm no Deere expert, and I sure don't want to be, but the first thing that comes to mind is the piston pins appear too long & there isn't enough room in the piston "forging" to allow adequate room for the retaining ring grooves to have a fair amount of "meat" on the outside of the groove.  That, or the piston should be a full rounded skirt.  That's just my two pennies tossed in the kitty.

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This is just darn sad when we have all done this for years with little or no trouble and now this is the stuff we have to deal with . You guys know how it works , oh you put it together wrong , didn't break it in correct , didn't use the correct breakin oil , the list goes on and on and then they only want to pay a few dollars a hour for us to fix there poor quality junk .

I used OEM kits for many years and also used Red Power overhaul kits and this is the honest truth , never had a problem , ever !!  Federal Mogal still makes our IH overhaul kits for the 400 series and im thinking I should try and contact them to see if they would start building kits for all this older stuff no matter what brand engine . 

Having to wonder if you have a good kit or bad kit sucks , I don't like doing stuff twice or more all on my nickel and your married to the job for life . I give my customers 1 year warranty if I overhaul an engine and today I wouldn't touch a motor unless I have OEM or Federal Mogal Kit . 

Danny 

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So, I'm going to go devil's advocate again.....  Danny, you said this was a short block right?  And the customer brought it to you after it was installed?  Is that correct?  So, you didn't assemble it? Or did I misinterpret you said?

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5 hours ago, Nebraska1206 said:

piston "forging" to allow adequate room for the retaining ring grooves

I thought all pistons were forged but that picture of the piston skirt looks like an as-cast surface to me.  A forging definitely shouldn’t have a brittle fracture pattern as that piston appears to have.

if that piston is forged, I’d say that something was wrong in the heat treatment before or after forging.  Or there was a major flaw in the raw material prior to forging.-

Your thought on the wrist pin being too long is a valid thought as well.

 

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Hope nobody wonders why you get an email from Reliance almost daily, with the discount of the day. Seems like I delete one almost every day, 2 veterans from Tom's Agri Diesel are now working for Riley if that is of any value to anyone. 

Most times if you price it out aftermarket doesn't save a dime. I just done a Ford BSD engine & Cummins 6BT. On the Ford I used Clevite pistons and the rest came from New Holland, everything for the Cummins came from Cummins.

Done a JD last summer $300 dollars difference between Deere & aftermarket. Pretty simple choice to make.............that said makes a guy wonder where Deere sources their parts. 

Around 12 years ago I built a Deere 466 with Reliance kit, tractor was running a manure pump last fall and started so serious blowby. Customer wanted me to check it out, so went to tractor. It was setting in shed "cold" I cranked it over not hearing anything so went ahead and fired it up. Started really good for 30 degrees. I couldn't work it thru shop quick enough so it went to neighbors shop. I kept up with it as I was interested it what failed, the cast iron ring land had came loose and was hammering out piston just about made it to the top where it would have been bad. Put piston in lathe and cut top off, ring land just slipped up off piston. Found a genuine Deere piston same part number in local dealers scrap, cut it down and found Deere piston had anchors on inside diameter of ring land that extended back into piston that the Reliance didn't have.

Moral of the story is what are you doing / using today that is going to bite you down the road? 

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The short Block came from Abilene Machine and the guy that has a repair shop 20 min from me installed it and brought it down for the dyno test after it toasted it's cookies . The M&W dyno sheet in my dyno says that tractor is rated at 202 hp and it had 218 hp so that is plenty in range . The story this guy told me was Abilene Machine is the main supplier for Reliance so they get all the good quality stuff and everyone else gets what ever !! 😂😂 

Just like Case IH Tech said , if you can buy a JD overhaul  kit for 300 dollars more , how far does 300.00 go when you have this happen in 30 acres ? The other 5 holes are right behind it and now he is on the hook for life on this tractor because it failed in the first hour or two ?? As I see this deal there are always going to be some folks that always point the finger at it wasn't put together right , wasn't broke it right , used the wrong oil , etc - - - this list goes on and on , beet the dead horse . Let's face it , this stuff is poor quality junk and I have a bunch of you guys call me , send me notes about all the same troubles this guy is having and ask me what to do . It's darn sad when we had very good kits as of a few years ago and when Reliance came in and bought all the after market company's up /All of them , it was then all this trouble started .

If you can get OEM stuff do it , Federal Mogal  makes a lot of kits for many OEM company's and there quality excellent , built right here in Minnesota.

Danny 

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I find the $300 difference from Genuine Deere to a aftermarket hard to believe...............I seem to remember the last 466 I had apart their was a considerable difference between the kits.  I think maxiforce went in that one, its still going fine............Actually maybe I should have used a reliance kit, because I tried to buy the tractor after it was back together, but it worked so good the owner gave up on that idea.

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