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46 minutes ago, Bdse25 said:

Going to happen until land gets so expensive that building up instead of out becomes the norm.  And we in the US have a real problem. With an ever growing population chasing what many consider to be the American dream people are going to pursue land ownership. Might only be 1/4th acre in suburbia but 4 people make an acre. US population is now over 320 million.

And correct that statement. If you go with what the farm publications claim yea we've lost a lot of land. But really it's not even close to a quarter of the land. In 1970 there was about 1,084,200,000 acres of US farm land. Reduce that by one quarter and you would have 831,150,000 acres. Well we have about 915,000,000 currently being farmed with about 25,000,000 in CRP and another 50,000,000 that' has just been idled. So that's a total of  990,000,000 acres of farmland. Of the about 90,000,000 acres lost sense 1970 (far less than a quarter in your life) a lot was replanted into trees or natural prairie. Now supposedly that land can never be farmed again but if the need arose they would be at it again. Clearing land to feed the population if needed. Just right here, withing 4 or 5 miles of me there is about 150 acres that was replanted into trees and another 200 or so in prairie. So that actually accounts for some of the lost acres.

Someone is fudging the numbers. I have no idea why unless it's to further an agenda. A political agenda most likely IMO. Part that really bothered me was they didn't even plant trees native to the area here. They put in pine trees! And they sucked the land owners in too. Came in, helped plant, provided the trees, gave em a good deal of money to leave em in 20 years. They passed laws so they clear the land. They did the same thing with the prairie grass too. So it isn't really as bad as it seems. Maybe 10% has been lost to urban sprawl sense 1970. But production through modern farming practices have almost doubled yields from 1970 to now.

 

Rick   

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7 hours ago, Bdse25 said:

Sad all right.

I grew up in Chester County. When I go back and visit my Sister I find myself driving down what used to be 2 lane (barely) roads that have become widened with turning lanes and traffic lights where the stop signs were. New houses everywhere the farms used to be. In many cases the area has become completely unrecognizable from what I remember.

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1 hour ago, TomH said:

Sad all right.

I grew up in Chester County. When I go back and visit my Sister I find myself driving down what used to be 2 lane (barely) roads that have become widened with turning lanes and traffic lights where the stop signs were. New houses everywhere the farms used to be. In many cases the area has become completely unrecognizable from what I remember.

I looked on google earth where we lived, hunted and fished at in NJ. Absolutely amazing how much is gone. But given the population growth, need for housing and such not too surprising. Gone are woods and open fields. But when we left NJ in 1971 a land investor/realtor we knew told my dad that "Between DC and NYC property would only skyrocket in value". He claimed that in that area 50 miles back from the coast would be wall to wall city by 2000. He was a bit off but close. 

Rick  

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8 hours ago, oldtanker said:

Going to happen until land gets so expensive that building up instead of out becomes the norm.  And we in the US have a real problem. With an ever growing population chasing what many consider to be the American dream people are going to pursue land ownership. Might only be 1/4th acre in suburbia but 4 people make an acre. US population is now over 320 million.

And correct that statement. If you go with what the farm publications claim yea we've lost a lot of land. But really it's not even close to a quarter of the land. In 1970 there was about 1,084,200,000 acres of US farm land. Reduce that by one quarter and you would have 831,150,000 acres. Well we have about 915,000,000 currently being farmed with about 25,000,000 in CRP and another 50,000,000 that' has just been idled. So that's a total of  990,000,000 acres of farmland. Of the about 90,000,000 acres lost sense 1970 (far less than a quarter in your life) a lot was replanted into trees or natural prairie. Now supposedly that land can never be farmed again but if the need arose they would be at it again. Clearing land to feed the population if needed. Just right here, withing 4 or 5 miles of me there is about 150 acres that was replanted into trees and another 200 or so in prairie. So that actually accounts for some of the lost acres.

Someone is fudging the numbers. I have no idea why unless it's to further an agenda. A political agenda most likely IMO. Part that really bothered me was they didn't even plant trees native to the area here. They put in pine trees! And they sucked the land owners in too. Came in, helped plant, provided the trees, gave em a good deal of money to leave em in 20 years. They passed laws so they clear the land. They did the same thing with the prairie grass too. So it isn't really as bad as it seems. Maybe 10% has been lost to urban sprawl sense 1970. But production through modern farming practices have almost doubled yields from 1970 to now.

 

Rick   

All the more reason to just leave the borders wide open and let some more people in .

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8 hours ago, oldtanker said:

Going to happen until land gets so expensive that building up instead of out becomes the norm.  And we in the US have a real problem. With an ever growing population chasing what many consider to be the American dream people are going to pursue land ownership. Might only be 1/4th acre in suburbia but 4 people make an acre. US population is now over 320 million.

And correct that statement. If you go with what the farm publications claim yea we've lost a lot of land. But really it's not even close to a quarter of the land. In 1970 there was about 1,084,200,000 acres of US farm land. Reduce that by one quarter and you would have 831,150,000 acres. Well we have about 915,000,000 currently being farmed with about 25,000,000 in CRP and another 50,000,000 that' has just been idled. So that's a total of  990,000,000 acres of farmland. Of the about 90,000,000 acres lost sense 1970 (far less than a quarter in your life) a lot was replanted into trees or natural prairie. Now supposedly that land can never be farmed again but if the need arose they would be at it again. Clearing land to feed the population if needed. Just right here, withing 4 or 5 miles of me there is about 150 acres that was replanted into trees and another 200 or so in prairie. So that actually accounts for some of the lost acres.

Someone is fudging the numbers. I have no idea why unless it's to further an agenda. A political agenda most likely IMO. Part that really bothered me was they didn't even plant trees native to the area here. They put in pine trees! And they sucked the land owners in too. Came in, helped plant, provided the trees, gave em a good deal of money to leave em in 20 years. They passed laws so they clear the land. They did the same thing with the prairie grass too. So it isn't really as bad as it seems. Maybe 10% has been lost to urban sprawl sense 1970. But production through modern farming practices have almost doubled yields from 1970 to now.

 

Rick   

he and the article both said "25% of the farmland in Lehigh Valley" has been lost. not surprising, given the population pressures there. we saw it in the turn of the century when our daughter was going to college in Allentown. housing developments where there were corn and soybeans the year before.

no one is fudging those numbers.

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12 minutes ago, lorenzo said:

All the more reason to just leave the borders wide open and let some more people in .

I never said that.

What I'm saying is that everyone has an agenda. Often more than one. Kinda like when I was just a kid. Mom and dad got something in the mail asking them to join some pro wildlife "club" that believed in sensible hunting to control animal populations. I remember my parents discussing joining. Mom wanted to and dad said no, that the group really wanted to eventually outlaw hunting. 30 years later dad was proven right.

So these claims about land lost? And to what? I don't trust the folks coming up with the numbers. Some of these folks have advocated that all the crops we consume should come from hydroponic farming and that were should be disturbing the soil at all. One group was advocating a vegan society will all people in the US and Canada living in TX, and letting the rest go "to our animal friends".

I just worry that the folks pushing this stuff have a hidden agenda. Face it. We have millions of un-tilled acres right now. We have the ability to grown far more than can be consumed. In fact the US could indeed feed the world if the situation demanded it. So right now stopping urban sprawl is a fools errand. You have land owners looking to retire who can make far more selling to a developer than they can to another farmer. The kids didn't stay and have no interest in farming. So what to do? Sell really cheap to let some kid in and then live the "golden years" in poverty? Sell to a BTO and maybe do OK? Or sell to a developer and live well with maybe a little for the kids when they die? Now before you answer that remember that we live in the US and have the right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". I understand wanting to preserve your way of life. But how far to you encroach in someone else's rights to do that? I really don't like it anymore than you do. But these city folk have to live someplace. Plus the population is growing. Don't wanna be China or AOC telling people how many kids they can have.

Rick

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12 minutes ago, ny bill o said:

he and the article both said "25% of the farmland in Lehigh Valley" has been lost. not surprising, given the population pressures there. we saw it in the turn of the century when our daughter was going to college in Allentown. housing developments where there were corn and soybeans the year before.

no one is fudging those numbers.

NO, what he said was "since I was born 21 years ago a quarter of farmland has been developed. Really a sad state of affairs ". 

 

Rick

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6 minutes ago, oldtanker said:

I never said that.

What I'm saying is that everyone has an agenda. Often more than one. Kinda like when I was just a kid. Mom and dad got something in the mail asking them to join some pro wildlife "club" that believed in sensible hunting to control animal populations. I remember my parents discussing joining. Mom wanted to and dad said no, that the group really wanted to eventually outlaw hunting. 30 years later dad was proven right.

So these claims about land lost? And to what? I don't trust the folks coming up with the numbers. Some of these folks have advocated that all the crops we consume should come from hydroponic farming and that were should be disturbing the soil at all. One group was advocating a vegan society will all people in the US and Canada living in TX, and letting the rest go "to our animal friends".

I just worry that the folks pushing this stuff have a hidden agenda. Face it. We have millions of un-tilled acres right now. We have the ability to grown far more than can be consumed. In fact the US could indeed feed the world if the situation demanded it. So right now stopping urban sprawl is a fools errand. You have land owners looking to retire who can make far more selling to a developer than they can to another farmer. The kids didn't stay and have no interest in farming. So what to do? Sell really cheap to let some kid in and then live the "golden years" in poverty? Sell to a BTO and maybe do OK? Or sell to a developer and live well with maybe a little for the kids when they die? Now before you answer that remember that we live in the US and have the right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". I understand wanting to preserve your way of life. But how far to you encroach in someone else's rights to do that? I really don't like it anymore than you do. But these city folk have to live someplace. Plus the population is growing. Don't wanna be China or AOC telling people how many kids they can have.

Rick

I guess we need a sarcastic emoji 

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1 hour ago, oldtanker said:

NO, what he said was "since I was born 21 years ago a quarter of farmland has been developed. Really a sad state of affairs ". 

 

Rick

My bad for not clarifying but I meant in the Lehigh Valley PA.  I’ll go back and edit.  If you read the article you’ll find the numbers actually come from the USDA census or Agriculture.  Seems legit to me, not to mention I can drive down the road and watch warehouses go up as fast as they can

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I’m not trying to push any agenda, just trying to give you guys some hard evidence about why I hate urban sprawl and development.  Imagine a QUARTER of the ground around you coming out of production in the last 20 years.  By the time I’m ready to retire there won’t be any left.  If you look at the numbers in the article it’s not small amounts either 

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3 hours ago, lorenzo said:

I’m just saying it seams as though we can’t feed the people that are here now.

lets let some more in,  more the marrier .

Really? And the demand for food is so great we turn corn and beans into ️? And prices are still garbage?

2 hours ago, Bdse25 said:

My bad for not clarifying but I meant in the Lehigh Valley PA.  I’ll go back and edit.  If you read the article you’ll find the numbers actually come from the USDA census or Agriculture.  Seems legit to me, not to mention I can drive down the road and watch warehouses go up as fast as they can

Sorry, I misunderstood what you were talking about 

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5 hours ago, TomH said:

Sad all right.

I grew up in Chester County. When I go back and visit my Sister I find myself driving down what used to be 2 lane (barely) roads that have become widened with turning lanes and traffic lights where the stop signs were. New houses everywhere the farms used to be. In many cases the area has become completely unrecognizable from what I remember.

Same here with Bucks county . Been thirty years this fall 

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 I think they call it "white flight" people want to get out of the urban areas to get away from the crowds and the crime.

So they move out to edges of the metro areas and the demand for housing drives the development. 

 

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