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4586 - DV800 water in oil


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2 hours ago, R Pope said:

D1206.......I have gathered up some W4's, W6's and W9"s with some Farmalls too. A few Massey 44's and a little 102Jr, and some JD's for contrast. I would consider a swap with no cash involved if your cousin's kid is interested.

Onsteder....sorry for kinda hijacking your post.

I‚Äôll let him know & X2 on the hijackūüĎć

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8 hours ago, Delta Dirt said:

Don't know anything about the DV800 engines-------but based on Dirt Boyz comment that it is most likely a sleeve/0-ring problem-----do not try curing your problem by adding a stop leak.

The stop leak will not seal off a leaking rubber o-ring.

Then you have anti freeze and stop leak in the oil pan!!!!  Ouch-------most stop leak compounds are very abrasive.

I found out on a 1370 Case engine that I added stop leak to back in the 1980s.  Looked like I had added sand to the oil supply-------even ate up the cam bearings.

Good luck----

 

DD

Ahh, good point about the stop leak tearing things up.  We had thought about trying it just to see if we could get by this season with it.

We might try to find a good inexpensive DT466 and throw that in there.  It would at least be useful for pulling our 700 bushel wagons around or the 25ft FC.

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As far as stop leak goes, the Blue Devil is some pretty good stuff. It just might work in this situation, but if a sleeve has a pin hole, no way. 

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We looked at buying a 4568 a few years ago, had 42XX hours on it.  It needed some love, but the price was right.  I am red to the core and never pass up an opportunity to buy one, but passed just because of the DV800.  I have never read a post ever had anything positive to say about them, which is sad.   And it's not one specific thing either, it's the whole engine; bearings, valve train, gaskets, O-rings, all of it.  The stories seem end with some catastrophic failure or ridiculously expensive rebuild.

If you and dad love the tractor, demote it light duty and baby it along.  We looked for some 91, 92, & 9350's which are 300hp and they were in the mid-upper $30's.  I know 30k is 30k, but we didn't think that was such a bad price.

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If you want to fix it, call Rock Valley Tractor Parts (800-831-8543). ¬†I sold them 5 DV800‚Äôs about 4 years ago and I know they got a nice running 4586 in after that. They should have the parts you need. The knocking is probably a camshaft going bad‚ÄĒthey are known for that. An updated cam is a available for $2900 (4 years ago). I found the engines then decided it was going to be too expensive to fix the 4568 so I sold it to RVTP. ¬†Having said that, I round like to have a good running 4586 some day.¬†

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  • 1 year later...
On 4/8/2019 at 6:20 PM, R Pope said:

You can have my whole tractor for $1000.

You still got it?

Sask is sort if far away though.......

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If you don't need PTO, then you can find some real reasonable 9230, 9250 tractors.  I paid $29K for mine, 4000 hours but bareback.    Duals are about shot, but they work for now.  The rest of the tractor is very clean and straight.  If you think thats bad for a '97 model tracotr , go price a Magnum MFD from the same time period.   Now, the same tractor with a PTO -- $50K & up.

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18 minutes ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

If you don't need PTO, then you can find some real reasonable 9230, 9250 tractors.  I paid $29K for mine, 4000 hours but bareback.    Duals are about shot, but they work for now.  The rest of the tractor is very clean and straight.  If you think thats bad for a '97 model tracotr , go price a Magnum MFD from the same time period.   Now, the same tractor with a PTO -- $50K & up.

Two 9330's just went up for sale at a dealer in Kentucky I believe, in the last week or two.  One bareback, one with 3pt and PTO.  $65,000 and $68,000 respectively.  I think their price is going up because guys are wanting non emission tractors.  We just got that 9330 this year, and while I am not at liberty to state price, it was very reasonably priced in my opinion. 

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2 hours ago, J-Mech said:

Two 9330's just went up for sale at a dealer in Kentucky I believe, in the last week or two.  One bareback, one with 3pt and PTO.  $65,000 and $68,000 respectively.  I think their price is going up because guys are wanting non emission tractors.  We just got that 9330 this year, and while I am not at liberty to state price, it was very reasonably priced in my opinion. 

Eventually guys are going to have to man up and quit paying stupid money for old stuff.  

As much as I like old stuff, its getting a bit ridiculous that one cant afford something brand new, let along 30 yrs old...... 

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9 hours ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

If you don't need PTO, then you can find some real reasonable 9230, 9250 tractors.  I paid $29K for mine, 4000 hours but bareback.    Duals are about shot, but they work for now.  The rest of the tractor is very clean and straight.  If you think thats bad for a '97 model tracotr , go price a Magnum MFD from the same time period.   Now, the same tractor with a PTO -- $50K & up.

A new 8940 the fall of 1998 was 109,000. That was 18 front weights, no rear weights. Included the 4th remote, and quick hitch. Me and dad priced one. Bought mine fall of 2001 with 903 hours for 63500, and it's got everything that one we priced out had. Dad was sick the fall of 1998 so we passed on the new one. We also had Mr. Greenjeans price us a new Deere 8400. I'll attach the quote. Notice the interest rates back then too you younger guys who haven't experienced that yet  Neighbor had a sale last fall because of health issues. Bought him a new Deere 8300 in 1996.;Had 3500 or so hours on it sale day. Brought over 90,000. That's insane imo.

KIMG0220.jpg

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On 5/18/2020 at 8:21 PM, Cdfarabaugh said:

Eventually guys are going to have to man up and quit paying stupid money for old stuff.  

As much as I like old stuff, its getting a bit ridiculous that one cant afford something brand new, let along 30 yrs old...... 

Some guys have a hard time getting started farming with stuff so expensive. Not everyone has family land that was homesteaded given to them to farm, and there's still a few people left that don't farm for the US government. Not many, but there's a few that do. And not everyone wants the headache of modern electronics that will force you to buy a new tractor again in 10 years. Buying a new tractor isn't a one time deal. Even if you only farm 500 acres, after 10 years, that new tractor might have only 1,000 hours on it, but it will start needing electrical work from setting. If not electrical work, it will need $15,000 worth of emissions work from setting. Obviously, non emission tractors don't need that so much. In 1960, an Oliver 770 diesel tractor was around $4500 new.  The average wages for someone in 1960 was $5700. Not quite a years' pay for a new tractor. Now days, what's a new smaller tractor go for?  $150,000? Keep in mind a 770 was a decent sized tractor for a small farm back then. With the avage pay in 2019 being $67,000, thats a minumum of 2 years of income to pay for a tractor, with the return on commodities being a lesser percent now than they were back then. Some of us just like to farm with older stuff as well. I always seem to catch my neighbor, a government farmer that farms pretty much only land given to him that was homesteaded by his family, broken down in the field waiting for JD or Case IH to show up with their laptop. I was drilling soys last year in our fields with my 674 and 5100 drill, while watching JD work with their laptop on the neighbor's tractor for 2 days! I can fix anything on our farm; him, not until the dealer can get to him with their computer after seeing everyone else. Farming is a hobby or a little extra income for a lot of people, it doesn't have to be a complete living or a show of how big and great of a farmer you are. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but a lot more people on this site seem to be like me, a smaller hobby farmer with older stuff.

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4 hours ago, RBootsMI said:

Some guys have a hard time getting started farming with stuff so expensive. Not everyone has family land that was homesteaded given to them to farm, and there's still a few people left that don't farm for the US government. Not many, but there's a few that do. And not everyone wants the headache of modern electronics that will force you to buy a new tractor again in 10 years. Buying a new tractor isn't a one time deal. Even if you only farm 500 acres, after 10 years, that new tractor might have only 1,000 hours on it, but it will start needing electrical work from setting. If not electrical work, it will need $15,000 worth of emissions work from setting. Obviously, non emission tractors don't need that so much. In 1960, an Oliver 770 diesel tractor was around $4500 new.  The average wages for someone in 1960 was $5700. Not quite a years' pay for a new tractor. Now days, what's a new smaller tractor go for?  $150,000? Keep in mind a 770 was a decent sized tractor for a small farm back then. With the avage pay in 2019 being $67,000, thats a minumum of 2 years of income to pay for a tractor, with the return on commodities being a lesser percent now than they were back then. Some of us just like to farm with older stuff as well. I always seem to catch my neighbor, a government farmer that farms pretty much only land given to him that was homesteaded by his family, broken down in the field waiting for JD or Case IH to show up with their laptop. I was drilling soys last year in our fields with my 674 and 5100 drill, while watching JD work with their laptop on the neighbor's tractor for 2 days! I can fix anything on our farm; him, not until the dealer can get to him with their computer after seeing everyone else. Farming is a hobby or a little extra income for a lot of people, it doesn't have to be a complete living or a show of how big and great of a farmer you are. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but a lot more people on this site seem to be like me, a smaller hobby farmer with older stuff.

Point taken and honestly for a lot of that I can agree with.  My point is seeing boxcar magnums and 50/55/7000 series Deeres going for big money.  Lets face it, that stuff can have expensive issues too and is going on 30 years old!  Older pre 1980's stuff is more reasonable if you stay away from green paint.  

My point is one time older used was a bargain, it really isn't anymore.  Not sure what a guy can buy starting out that has MFWD, adequate hydraulics, and HP to perform modern jobs at a reasonable price.  The reluctance to buy newer stuff has completely fubared the used market.  Can almost buy a 2010 era machine for what something that is 20 years older.....

 

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56 minutes ago, Cdfarabaugh said:

Point taken and honestly for a lot of that I can agree with.  My point is seeing boxcar magnums and 50/55/7000 series Deeres going for big money.  Lets face it, that stuff can have expensive issues too and is going on 30 years old!  Older pre 1980's stuff is more reasonable if you stay away from green paint.  

My point is one time older used was a bargain, it really isn't anymore.  Not sure what a guy can buy starting out that has MFWD, adequate hydraulics, and HP to perform modern jobs at a reasonable price.  The reluctance to buy newer stuff has completely fubared the used market.  Can almost buy a 2010 era machine for what something that is 20 years older.....

 

Agreed sir

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Dad said when him and Grandpa ordered the 1086 the fall of 1976, it listed for 27000, and the manager told him if you want one getter ordered because of inflation rising. What are nice ones bringing 44 years later? Over half of what they listed for back then. There's no deals on good useable equipment. People naturally are willing to pay for something in good condition, car's, pickups, you name it

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No such thing as a "government" here in Illinois.  Not that I've ever seen or heard of. No way can you start farming either.  If you bought 100 acres, you would have to rent at least another 100 acres to make the payment.  And even if you worked a good job... I'm talking $80k/year, you would have to pretty much not have any other debt to be able to farm that 100 acres you bought and pay for the even really old cheap equipment you have to buy to farm it.  No one "starts" farming anymore unless someone gives them ground or let's them use equipment, or they make tons of money.  Can't be done.  I've got a good friend.  His father in law farms.  He and his son will inherit the farm, but they wanted to buy ground.  They both have (the father and son) very profitable businesses each.  They bought ground.  They use the family equipment to farm their ground, and still pay a pretty big sum out of pocket at the end of the year.  Only reason it's worth it to them is because 1.) They can afford it, so they are building equity and 2.) Because they will eventually get the family ground.  

My family has some ground for sale.  I'd like to own it.  One of my cousins married a big local farmer.  She passed away in a car accident.  Her boys are taking over the farm.  They were allowed to farm the family ground, and have now bought half.  I'd like to get the other half.... but the 90 acres left is priced at $7,800/ acre.  That's $702,000.  I have access to the equipment.... but it won't pay for itself.  I'd have to go find and farm at least another 100 acres to make the payment, and to break even.  Maybe.  And finding 100 acres that needs farmed isn't exactly easy.

The reason used equipment is so high is because the people who need it can pay for it.  It's more reliable than the newer stuff, and let's face it, easier and cheaper to maintain.  The "big guys" will always lease or buy new.   They can afford it.  It is called supply and demand.  Does that suck for the small time and hobby farmers.... yep.  But that's just how it is.  Markets pander to the big contenders, not the little guy.  It's always been that way, nothing new.  It's just that the playing field used to be more even.  There weren't as many big guys, or hobbyists.  Not the case now.  Sure it's frustrating, but that's just how the free market works. 

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23 hours ago, RBootsMI said:

Some guys have a hard time getting started farming with stuff so expensive. Not everyone has family land that was homesteaded given to them to farm, and there's still a few people left that don't farm for the US government. Not many, but there's a few that do. And not everyone wants the headache of modern electronics that will force you to buy a new tractor again in 10 years. Buying a new tractor isn't a one time deal. Even if you only farm 500 acres, after 10 years, that new tractor might have only 1,000 hours on it, but it will start needing electrical work from setting. If not electrical work, it will need $15,000 worth of emissions work from setting. Obviously, non emission tractors don't need that so much. In 1960, an Oliver 770 diesel tractor was around $4500 new.  The average wages for someone in 1960 was $5700. Not quite a years' pay for a new tractor. Now days, what's a new smaller tractor go for?  $150,000? Keep in mind a 770 was a decent sized tractor for a small farm back then. With the avage pay in 2019 being $67,000, thats a minumum of 2 years of income to pay for a tractor, with the return on commodities being a lesser percent now than they were back then. Some of us just like to farm with older stuff as well. I always seem to catch my neighbor, a government farmer that farms pretty much only land given to him that was homesteaded by his family, broken down in the field waiting for JD or Case IH to show up with their laptop. I was drilling soys last year in our fields with my 674 and 5100 drill, while watching JD work with their laptop on the neighbor's tractor for 2 days! I can fix anything on our farm; him, not until the dealer can get to him with their computer after seeing everyone else. Farming is a hobby or a little extra income for a lot of people, it doesn't have to be a complete living or a show of how big and great of a farmer you are. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but a lot more people on this site seem to be like me, a smaller hobby farmer with older stuff.

Exactly! I hate computer controlled stuff. We have a 2007 kia sedonna and it is a POC! Mechanical injection is the best way to go. also mechanical injection and carbourated engines are almost immune to EMP strikes. Also when some **** buys a new J*** D**** they might buy the machine but JD owns the software and they are trying to say the farmer dosn't own the tractor, just a piece of paper that allows him to put fuel in it and use it.

Drives me nuts.

BTW. Has anybody seen how much JD pays for taxes? Something like - $206 Million in 2017! No prises for guessing that they MIGHT be subsidised or even Gov. owned.

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