Trans ih 4586 how much power will it handle

[Intl1466]

Just wondered how much he a spicer trans will handle in ih 4586

 

[bitty]

Most reputable truck shops might be able to find out if you have the transmission #. The rears are probably going to be the limiting factor

[Intl1466]

I found a 4586 for scrap price all new paint and hydraulic lines but engine is blown. kinda figured I'd drop in a 3406b cat if it could handle it

[Jeff-C-IL]

The Cummins 855 was a pretty common motor swap in those old girls back in the 80-90's.   As noted, get the tranny model #  and either do some research online (a lot of documentation out there, just have to find it)  or go to a transmission shop.    Consider you can always turn down the pump a little and save fuel.....   Be aware that the hydraulic pump mounts out on the front of the crank...a longer engine requires extending the nose.

[Intl1466]

I had thought about putting a DTI466 in it but still have to stretch the frame and you only have 250 hp (if you turn it up)

[Jeff-C-IL]

The DTI466 was stock in the 4386.  No frame stretch needed.   It might bolt right in.   I ran one for years, I agree the power just wasn't quite enough.   I changed the turbo to a 2SE (or was it a 3LM?)  which helped a lot.  By the time you drove the extra "rear end" and pulled all that weight around, you really couldn't pull much more than a 1486.  Lot more traction though!   You had to watch the EGR temps and make sure you did not lug the engine.   Basically, it pulled what my current 9230 with a Cummins 8.3 pulls.     

A juiced 8.3 or a M11 might be an option.  I'm not sure you can crank a 8.3 much over 250 either...think they start blowing something?  3406 would be killer---I saw one of those stuffed into a 40 series Deere 4x4 once....   

TOo bad there aren't some better options in the 300-350 hp range.  I know IH had the DT530? in trucks,  but no nothing about it.  Here's a link to an OLD topic about dropping a 530 in a 4586

 

[bitty]

1 hour ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

The DTI466 was stock in the 4386.  No frame stretch needed.   It might bolt right in.   I ran one for years, I agree the power just wasn't quite enough.   I changed the turbo to a 2SE (or was it a 3LM?)  which helped a lot.  By the time you drove the extra "rear end" and pulled all that weight around, you really couldn't pull much more than a 1486.  Lot more traction though!   You had to watch the EGR temps and make sure you did not lug the engine.   Basically, it pulled what my current 9230 with a Cummins 8.3 pulls.     

A juiced 8.3 or a M11 might be an option.  I'm not sure you can crank a 8.3 much over 250 either...think they start blowing something?  3406 would be killer---I saw one of those stuffed into a 40 series Deere 4x4 once....   

TOo bad there aren't some better options in the 300-350 hp range.  I know IH had the DT530? in trucks,  but no nothing about it.  Here's a link to an OLD topic about dropping a 530 in a 4586

 

An 8.3 will take 300 engine horsepower. We have 16,000 hours on our one 8950 and it dynoed 270 PTO when it was two years old

[tommyw-5088]

I think a m-11 would be a good fit .

 

not my favorite engine , but could fit .

 

I know they fell out of favor , but what about a 8v92

[bitty]

Stitzels had a 9150 that had a fire that had the M11 engine. Wasn't burned bad if I remember, cab area is what I am thinking

[Intl1466]

I have a b model cat already just didn't know if the rears and trans would hold up. Only problem I see is hydraulic pump drive.

[Jeff-C-IL]

You got the engine, just turn down the pump to about 300 hp.   Pull back the throttle till the boost gauge begins to drop off, and run the engine in the sweet spot.  Save fuel.  Never understood why everybody has to turn it up until it breaks, but won't turn it down to save fuel/repairs/etc.   Its what they do in all the modern equipment,  the smaller models are the same machine with the motor turned down.   Farming isn't a tractor pull, its a business...least cost wins.

[Thesd5488]

On 3/8/2019 at 5:34 PM, Jeff-C-IL said:

The DTI466 was stock in the 4386.  No frame stretch needed.   It might bolt right in.   I ran one for years, I agree the power just wasn't quite enough.   I changed the turbo to a 2SE (or was it a 3LM?)  which helped a lot.  By the time you drove the extra "rear end" and pulled all that weight around, you really couldn't pull much more than a 1486.  Lot more traction though!   You had to watch the EGR temps and make sure you did not lug the engine.   Basically, it pulled what my current 9230 with a Cummins 8.3 pulls.     

A juiced 8.3 or a M11 might be an option.  I'm not sure you can crank a 8.3 much over 250 either...think they start blowing something?  3406 would be killer---I saw one of those stuffed into a 40 series Deere 4x4 once....   

TOo bad there aren't some better options in the 300-350 hp range.  I know IH had the DT530? in trucks,  but no nothing about it.  Here's a link to an OLD topic about dropping a 530 in a 4586

 

8.3 or 466 with good radiator and turbo can run over 300 pto horseall day

[Big Steve]

Installed a400 horsepower 855 in a 4586 it ran for years without any problems. The hardest  part was the hydraulic system  had to get a gear reduction pump  because engine  auxiliary  drive wasn't  heavy enough  to drive pump. Keep in mind that the differential and final drives are 1466and 966 parts. Added 11 inches in frame if I  remember right  used low mount turbo manifold. If you let the air out of front tires it makes it a lot easier to work on.

[Jeff-C-IL]

I hate to disagree...but in this particular case, personal experience says no to 300HP on a 4386.   I had a 4386 with a rebuilt DTI466, new injection pump, and either a 3LM or S2E turbo on it.   No way to check HP,  but stock is supposedly 240.  Obviously the turbo boosted that a bit.    I never had any trouble with overheating...huge radiator more than sufficient to cool the beast..  The issue was EGT.    Because of the traction that these big beasts had, you just didn't get any slippage.   Which meant any hard spot they pulled down, which meant the EGT soared.   I ruined one rebuilt engine (burned 2 valves off & holed a piston)  when I had the pump turned up just a bit (maybe 20hp).  After that, I went back to stock pump settings and added a boost and EGT gauge.  You had to be really careful to watch the EGT, I would pull back the throttle to keep the EGT below 1400.   To me, that means I was putting as much fuel in (& HP out) as the motor could use without overheating.   I ended up running about 2400rpm,  15" of boost, 1200 deg. most of the time...ran sweet & used less fuel there.

I have no doubt a 466 will run 300+ in a truck, or in a 2wd tractor just fine, just not in this tractor.   Because with 0 slippage, you are using 100% of the HP delivered at all times....and that is way more load than typical.    Its like a generator that's rated for 100kW 'standby' may only be rated for 50kW 'Prime power +' (Full load all day)

[ZG6E]

On 3/13/2019 at 9:33 AM, Jeff-C-IL said:

I hate to disagree...but in this particular case, personal experience says no to 300HP on a 4386.   I had a 4386 with a rebuilt DTI466, new injection pump, and either a 3LM or S2E turbo on it.   No way to check HP,  but stock is supposedly 240.  Obviously the turbo boosted that a bit.    I never had any trouble with overheating...huge radiator more than sufficient to cool the beast..  The issue was EGT.    Because of the traction that these big beasts had, you just didn't get any slippage.   Which meant any hard spot they pulled down, which meant the EGT soared.   I ruined one rebuilt engine (burned 2 valves off & holed a piston)  when I had the pump turned up just a bit (maybe 20hp).  After that, I went back to stock pump settings and added a boost and EGT gauge.  You had to be really careful to watch the EGT, I would pull back the throttle to keep the EGT below 1400.   To me, that means I was putting as much fuel in (& HP out) as the motor could use without overheating.   I ended up running about 2400rpm,  15" of boost, 1200 deg. most of the time...ran sweet & used less fuel there.

I have no doubt a 466 will run 300+ in a truck, or in a 2wd tractor just fine, just not in this tractor.   Because with 0 slippage, you are using 100% of the HP delivered at all times....and that is way more load than typical.    Its like a generator that's rated for 100kW 'standby' may only be rated for 50kW 'Prime power +' (Full load all day)

I get lower EGT in the 3588 running at a higher rpm than I do trying to lug it (2400 vs 2000). Rated rpm is 2400 on a 3588 so it must be higher on a 4386? Does it get out of its efficiency range spike EGTs?

[Jeff-C-IL]

Rated RPM on the 4386 was 2600 just like the 1066, 1486, etc.   2400 rpm was actually pulling the throttle back to "take off the top".   I think the motor had peak torque at about 2400, because it always seemed to struggle when you pushed it all the way forward, pull it back a bit and it would settle down and pull.   This was not "lugging" the motor, lugging is when the load drags down the rpm and you keep you "foot in it"; ie  more fuel is being dumped in asking for more power, but.the engine is already at maximum output for whatever RPM it is running.   I was doing just the opposite, defueling the motor until it ran at a speed it could maintain.  

Typical example would be pulling a 28' FC at 6.5 mph at 2600rpm.   The engine is running at 1250 egt and 15-16' boost.   You hit a hard spot in the field and the EGT climbs to 1400, as the engine RPM's drop to 2200.     Pulling the throttle back to 2400 & 6 mph, the engine is running 1150-1200, boost 12-14'.   Same hard spot, boost climbs to 15, EGT to 1300, RPMs drop to 2200.   I think some of the behavior is due to the excessive traction these beasts had---24000 lbs (a 1486 is what, 14k) and 8 tires in a 240hp tractor.   I agree with you on the 2wd...the 1486 always ran best at 2600.

Sure, you are dropping a little speed, not using every last HP....but you are also using less fuel to do the job.  Anytime an engine is lugging or being pulled down with the throttle wide open, you are dumping in "unused" fuel.  BLACK SMOKE!  Boost & EGT reflects that.  I found that by just pulling back the throttle until the boost started dropping, I saved a lot of fuel.   

Other tractors/engine may be totally different.

[Intl1466]

Thanks for the info. Nice to get it first hand. What kind / size implements would you be pulling

[BOBSIH856]

If you can read the tag on the trans the first set of numbers is the rated torque for the trans.

[Wi Ih]

I would think that the horse power isn’t the  problem it what you hook behind it that is, if you put behind it what it normally pulled it should be ok right ?

[J-Mech]

2 hours ago, Wi Ih said:

I would think that the horse power isn’t the  problem it what you hook behind it that is, if you put behind it what it normally pulled it should be ok right ?

No horsepower is made until you hook something behind it.  So... you are kind of right.  But what farmer is going to keep a small implement on a tractor with more HP?  No.  If it gets more HP it will get a bigger tool.  That's what guys do.  Then it will get ballast until it doesn't spin, and then it will get torn up.  See that kind of thing all the time.  

[J-Mech]

On 3/16/2019 at 12:43 PM, Jeff-C-IL said:

Rated RPM on the 4386 was 2600 just like the 1066, 1486, etc.   2400 rpm was actually pulling the throttle back to "take off the top".   I think the motor had peak torque at about 2400, because it always seemed to struggle when you pushed it all the way forward, pull it back a bit and it would settle down and pull.   This was not "lugging" the motor, lugging is when the load drags down the rpm and you keep you "foot in it"; ie  more fuel is being dumped in asking for more power, but.the engine is already at maximum output for whatever RPM it is running.   I was doing just the opposite, defueling the motor until it ran at a speed it could maintain.  

Typical example would be pulling a 28' FC at 6.5 mph at 2600rpm.   The engine is running at 1250 egt and 15-16' boost.   You hit a hard spot in the field and the EGT climbs to 1400, as the engine RPM's drop to 2200.     Pulling the throttle back to 2400 & 6 mph, the engine is running 1150-1200, boost 12-14'.   Same hard spot, boost climbs to 15, EGT to 1300, RPMs drop to 2200.   I think some of the behavior is due to the excessive traction these beasts had---24000 lbs (a 1486 is what, 14k) and 8 tires in a 240hp tractor.   I agree with you on the 2wd...the 1486 always ran best at 2600.

Sure, you are dropping a little speed, not using every last HP....but you are also using less fuel to do the job.  Anytime an engine is lugging or being pulled down with the throttle wide open, you are dumping in "unused" fuel.  BLACK SMOKE!  Boost & EGT reflects that.  I found that by just pulling back the throttle until the boost started dropping, I saved a lot of fuel.   

Other tractors/engine may be totally different.

IH had a bad habit about over revving their engines in later applications to get more HP.  They would take a good set up, and increase the RPM to get more HP instead of tweaking the governor and or the pump.  A 466 (any 400 series engine) will make as much power at 2400 RPM as it will at 2600 RPM if it's set up right.  You figured out what some guys did years ago.  (Good job!  No sarcasm either.  I mean it.)  Those engines did do better at 2400 than 2600.  

[R Pope]

I have a good V800 in a 4586 with a blown differential if you want to go the stock engine route, lots easier than an inline swap.