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56 /66 / 86 Series Tractors w/ differential locks


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From what I understand with the 86 series, diff locks were more common on tractors with a 3pt. and presumably to help with moldbord plowing. Very rare for an IH tractor without 3pt to have a diff lock.

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I just want to say, I've been around this place for close to 17 years- well before "likes" became a thing- and of the many great IH mechanics posting here, pete23 is among the most knowledgeable- a ve

Pete is one of the greatest minds on this forum. But he doesn't brag about it. Like I tell my wife sometimes, "Just because you talk louder doesn't make you right"!  That gets the fires burning! 😈

Wonder why I didn't post on here for about six months.  

On 2/19/2019 at 8:56 AM, J-Mech said:

Maybe because of the reason stated above.  Improper use tears things up.  Tractors without them don't break those parts.  That might create a perception of weakness.  But no... the diff lock isn't a weak point. 

As usual you are completely wrong, the diff long was horrible design that never worked. This has been proven for goinf on 50 years now...

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24 minutes ago, SMiller said:

As usual you are completely wrong, the diff long was horrible design that never worked. This has been proven for goinf on 50 years now...

So, a tractor with diff lock is more prone to beak the diff (than one without it) if you never use the differential lock? 

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1 hour ago, SMiller said:

As usual you are completely wrong, the diff long was horrible design that never worked. This has been proven for goinf on 50 years now...

Not sure how you arrived at that idea But all the Differential locks on tractors I've had  have gotten me out of all kinds of sticky situations with never a problem and afew have made it well over 10,000 hours So unless your driving with it engaged while turning on dry pavement that's the only way I know you could destroy one 

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The differential lock on the end of the bull pinion was, as someone else stated, a poor design.  The ones before the 86 series were all a single dry disc that flopped around like a rubber duck and was a constant leaker.  Right off the truck new they would be leaking.  The ones on the 86 series  were a lot more reliable but still a poor design using the same  hollow bull pinion and  run a long small diameter shaft to the other side of differential .  

There just was no room inside of those differentials  to add a internal unit on those IH tractors. 

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5 hours ago, pete23 said:

The differential lock on the end of the bull pinion was, as someone else stated, a poor design.  The ones before the 86 series were all a single dry disc that flopped around like a rubber duck and was a constant leaker.  Right off the truck new they would be leaking.  The ones on the 86 series  were a lot more reliable but still a poor design using the same  hollow bull pinion and  run a long small diameter shaft to the other side of differential .  

There just was no room inside of those differentials  to add a internal unit on those IH tractors. 

Quoted for J-Mech, didnt want him to miss it...

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Massey Ferguson must have had a much better diff lock design , in that era, because in 20 years of 3pt mounted moldbord plowing I never broke one. Every time the on-land tractor wheel slipped it was customary to stomp on the diff lock to get through the wet or hard bit.

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The one on Dad's 2520 worked very well and caused no problems.  Didn't seem to care when you hit it.  It stayed locked till you hit one of the brake pedals.

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On ‎2‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 7:38 PM, J-Mech said:

Don't see many with differential lock in my area either.  Honestly, I never saw the point.... I mean, the tractor has steering brakes.  

steering brakes are a distant second to a diff lock- no comparison actually

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2 hours ago, hillman said:

steering brakes are a distant second to a diff lock- no comparison actually

Using a brake to help with traction robs power and wears the brake out faster I only use brakes in mud or snow when turning since  turning with diff lock on  isn't possible

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16 hours ago, SMiller said:

Quoted for J-Mech, didnt want him to miss it...

Poor design and leaking components doesn't equate to "weak point".  They function as designed, and I think others agree that they cause no internal component failure at any higher rate than a machine without them.  (When used properly, as designed.)

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3 hours ago, hillman said:

steering brakes are a distant second to a diff lock- no comparison actually

 

1 hour ago, ksfarmdude said:

Using a brake to help with traction robs power and wears the brake out faster I only use brakes in mud or snow when turning since  turning with diff lock on  isn't possible

I think maybe my statement was misunderstood. 

I wasn't advocating using the steering brakes to control traction in a field setting.  Only for use in stopping wheel spin when stuck.  But usually by then, your done anyway.

But I digress.  I've been happy to have diff lock on many occasions when I was in mud.  I've been stuck, or almost stuck just as many times where I had diff lock, as when I didn't.  I agree, diff lock is good.  But I've had more trouble on machines smaller than say, 50hp than I've had issue with larger tractors.  Usually by the time I needed diff lock on a larger tractor, I was in a place I didn't need to be anyway, and the end result would have been the same no matter what. 

As far as using the diff lock to aid in traction in the field, in my area the only time that is really an issue is in sandy soil, or on a tractor that really isn't weighted properly.  I *think* all 3 or the 2+2's on the farm have it, at least one of the Magnums does.  (The FWA 7250.) Now on those tractors being 4wd, diff lock makes a big difference. 

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1 hour ago, J-Mech said:

Poor design and leaking components doesn't equate to "weak point".  They function as designed, and I think others agree that they cause no internal component failure at any higher rate than a machine without them.  (When used properly, as designed.)

What do you mean, poor design and leaks don't equate to a weak point.  When the disc is full of oil it sure does not work as designed. And they sure did and do cause more component failures, I was there repairing those failures.  We sold very few 66 and 86 series with the differential lock and the failure rate was high for the  few we had out.   Even the foot operated valve that was used was a constant problem on 66 series and electric solenoid operated ones on later models.  

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2 hours ago, J-Mech said:

 

I think maybe my statement was misunderstood. 

I wasn't advocating using the steering brakes to control traction in a field setting.  Only for use in stopping wheel spin when stuck.  

 

Huh?

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3 minutes ago, pete23 said:

What do you mean, poor design and leaks don't equate to a weak point.  When the disc is full of oil it sure does not work as designed. And they sure did and do cause more component failures, I was there repairing those failures.  We sold very few 66 and 86 series with the differential lock and the failure rate was high for the  few we had out.   Even the foot operated valve that was used was a constant problem on 66 series and electric solenoid operated ones on later models.  

Failure rate of what?  The differential?  Or the diff lock? 

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3 minutes ago, hillman said:

Huh?

If you are in the mudd or ice and a wheel spins, ride the brake to stop the wheel spin.  Just like anyone would do if they didn't have a diff lock, but had steering brakes.  I wasn't suggesting using brakes to boost traction in a field setting.  I thought maybe that's what someone thought I meant. 

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1 minute ago, J-Mech said:

Failure rate of what?  The differential?  Or the diff lock? 

 

Failure of the differential lock so it was of no use until repaired in most cases, but, there were some bull pinion hollow shaft failures to make tractor out of commission.  

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Just now, pete23 said:

 

Failure of the differential lock so it was of no use until repaired in most cases, but, there were some bull pinion hollow shaft failures to make tractor out of commission.  

Some.  Not all.  I don't disagree.  

I'm going back to the comment on the first page that stated that a diff lock made the rear end "weaker".  As a whole, I don't think it did.  Some failures are expected, but I don't think as a whole they made the rear end of the machine "weak".  Any failed bull pinion shaft will put a tractor out of commission.  I've pulled bad bull pinions out of a tractor without diff lock.  It happens. 

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2 minutes ago, J-Mech said:

Some.  Not all.  I don't disagree.  

I'm going back to the comment on the first page that stated that a diff lock made the rear end "weaker".  As a whole, I don't think it did.  Some failures are expected, but I don't think as a whole they made the rear end of the machine "weak".  Any failed bull pinion shaft will put a tractor out of commission.  I've pulled bad bull pinions out of a tractor without diff lock.  It happens. 

Lmao, dude you are a legend in your own mind.

 

Are you telling me the bull pinion was as strong in a tractor with diff lock as one without? I hope you say yes so we call all have a good laugh...

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1 minute ago, SMiller said:

Lmao, dude you are a legend in your own mind. 

Well, maybe.  But it's better than thinking I'm smarter than I really am.  

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I've seen many bull pinion failures on tractors without differential lock. My point is the failure rate was higher on those with it.  But, the main problem with the design was failure of the differential lock it's self making it necessary to repair a leak that kept on leaking even without using the lock.  Best way to repair them was pull out all the junk and put a cup style core hole plug in the end of that hollow shaft. 

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2 hours ago, SMiller said:

You forgot to answer the question...

I didn't see a question....? 

Oh, never mind, I see you edited one in.  

Well, I think your buddy Pete answered it for you.......

3 hours ago, pete23 said:

Best way to repair them was pull out all the junk and put a cup style core hole plug in the end of that hollow shaft. 

Apparently Pete doesn't think that the hollow shaft was a weak enough point to warrant pulling the axle to change to a solid one.  That seems to me to say that although a hollow shaft is weaker than a solid one (I don't think anyone would debate that) it isn't a weak enough point to warrant pulling it. 

 

So.... sit back and have a good laugh.  Or at the very least brood on how you will try and make me look stupid next time.  Meanwhile I'll sit back an laugh at my 4 month reputation level compared to your 14 year reputation level.  

Good day. 

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