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17 hours ago, Doc Egor said:

A lot of the issues with those tractors were related to miss use due to people not understanding their idiosyncrasies and not treating with the care they needed.

The extreme heat from those engines really does a number on the pilot and throw out bearings - it literally boils the grease away. A shot of grease does wonders to extend the lift of the throw out bearing.

Of course running 250F - 300F hytran as a lubricant through a truck transmission that originally was designed to use 80/90W was an interesting concept as well.

I've still got a couple of those tractors, your thread has brought back a lot of memories and I'm enjoying seeing the pictures - thank you.

I agree about people misusing them and their idiosyncrasies.  Like the clutches going out due to too high RPM and taking off under a load.  

Yeah, the hytran in the trans is odd, but the fluid level is a bit higher, and it circulates fluid through it.  Not sure it's better, but keeping oil flowing through it can't hurt.  

Keep the comments coming.  I'm enjoying sharing this build! 

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13 hours ago, R Pope said:

I have a 4586 with the front diff busted. If you need a parts tractor, it will be cheap! The old girl ran good but wasn't worth fixing. Excellent engine and trans, new clutch. Long ways away from you, though.

You are a long way off, lol!  

What SN did you have?  Duals or singles?  

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@Jeff-C-IL

I didn't want to quote your whole post, so I'll just tag you instead. 

Thanks for the comment/advice on the LED's.  It helps! 

On the driveline, I too hope I have different results.  Seems like an odd deal.  Our neighbor has two Steiger Bearcats, which is as near as I can tell, the comparable Steiger tractor to the 4586.  Ours is a '77 and his are '78's.  Steiger driveline was different, and I can't recall now if the T-case swings on them too or not.  Either way, the driveshafts were longer due to the truck diff's used in them.  Much more room under the Steiger.  I really don't know why IH didn't just supply the engine with different styling, paint and decals and use more of the same Steiger main parts.  Maybe to keep them different?  Either way, a truck axle is a better choice for sure.  Better parts availability than the specific parts that IH used.  (At least 45 years later anyway, lol.) 

I will be sure and post up anything I find about the calipers when I get to them.  Trying to get the cab and sheet metal done so it can go off to paint.  The guys are really worried about the painting for some reason....  I'm worried about getting everything right BEFORE paint is applied.  I really want to put the cab on now and check everything out, build the RH console and then paint it all at once.  That way no "wish we'd done that before we painted it" happening. 

Sounds like you had an issue in your trans.  Bad gear, bearing or something.  Some transmissions are noisy, but there's usually good reason. 

We do still have the original seat.  It's actually in really good shape, except it's missing the arm rests.  Going to try and get a set.  We talked about replacing it with an air seat, and may later.  That's the hope.  At this point though, the seat is in good shape, and it will likely stay for now.  I do know one thing though.... that b*****d is heavy!!!  We liked to busted a gut taking it down and out of the cab!  Thing must weigh 150#!!  Air seats out of trucks are pretty cheap... but don't swivel.  We'd rather put a seat from like a 9300 CIH in it, or a Magnum seat, but dang they are expensive.  CIH had seats in their flier in January at like $1100 for a complete seat, and $750/$800 for just a good base.  We passed for now, lol.  But that doesn't mean it won't get changed later. 

YES!  We are trying to change the parking brake over to the newer style up on the dash.  You don't have a pic of what you did, do you?  When I looked at the parts book, I recognized the new foot style parking brake to be from a GM.  My research came back as an "A" body GM car.  (Chevelle, El Camino, Monte Carlo)  Looking for one of those to use.  Used or new.  Or one from a late model 43/45/4786 out of the salvage yard.  Either way, the plan was to move it so we could add a "buddy" seat there.  Stupid place for a parking brake handle in my opinion.  Why they didn't put it on the other side, I don't know.  I like the later foot style better anyway.  We don't figure it will get used much anyway.  Like Randall said today, "If you have an implement on, just set it down!" 

Stay tuned for more.... haven't gotten to the RH console just yet.  Still got quite a bit more to post pictures (and discuss) of what's been done to get you guys caught up to where I'm at now.  

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I dpn't recall the serial no. It has 20.8X38 duals.

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I looked thru all my pictures and I don't have a single one that shows the parking brake.   The one I posted earlier showing the side rails is the closest, it shows the release lever mounted on the side of the console , but not the actual pedal.    I made a bracket very similar to #3 in the CIH Parts page for the later s/n pictures, and bolted the auto unit to that like it was bolted to the door column on the car.   I angled it a bit so you pushed down and out, more natural that way.   It has to sit so the cable can drop straight out the floor, IIRC I had to plan the bracket so that the cable missed the under cab framing and also the main tractor frame.   Mine had a release cable and "knob" which I mounted up on the side of the dash---way easier than bending way over to pull it.  I used mine all the time while hooking up--its the only way to keep the tractor from rolling slightly when you stop.  Back up to the implement just beside the hitch, clutch and brake, take it out of gear, release clutch, set parking brake, release brake, go back and swing the tongue over into the implement hitch, swear cause you are 1" off. Climb back in , repeat process....  If you don't set the parking brake, the tractor just rolls right back to the initial position as soon as you let go of the brake.  Something about tire elasticity, ground compression, etc....just know it always did it!

The old seat was OK until the shock failed.   Then it was like riding the bull!   I found a used seat out of a NH Genesis.   Rough but the air ride part worked and it swiveled.     It was larger than the old one and I had to remove the buddy seat I build.  (nothing fancy, 2x2s, plywood, and cushions).  

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Jonathan, Great script & pics.....Enjoying ALL!

Rainman,Paul

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very good thread, I don't know much about these tractors so the updates, Stieger vs IH differences and the truck- ag differences with tranny etc are very interesting

Thanks to all...…..so far!

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IH used their own axles because they advertised them as usable in row crops.  My 4366 came from a cotton farm in SE Ark??? They had it set up to straddle 38" rows with 18.4x38 duals!  It literally had cotton bolls stuck to the underside!

Let me know if you can't find the cab ac cover.  I think the tractor I got the trans from had that and I will be back down there in a few weeks.

Thx-Ace

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17 hours ago, R Pope said:

I dpn't recall the serial no. It has 20.8X38 duals.

That's fine.  I just wondered if it was before or after the brake updates.  (SN 1500+)

Duals though.... I hope we convert this one once we determine it's a good machine!

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4 hours ago, Rainman said:

Jonathan, Great script & pics.....Enjoying ALL!

Rainman,Paul

 

4 hours ago, hillman said:

very good thread, I don't know much about these tractors so the updates, Stieger vs IH differences and the truck- ag differences with tranny etc are very interesting

Thanks to all...…..so far!

 

Thanks guys, and to any others I missed! 

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10 hours ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

I looked thru all my pictures and I don't have a single one that shows the parking brake.   The one I posted earlier showing the side rails is the closest, it shows the release lever mounted on the side of the console , but not the actual pedal.    I made a bracket very similar to #3 in the CIH Parts page for the later s/n pictures, and bolted the auto unit to that like it was bolted to the door column on the car.   I angled it a bit so you pushed down and out, more natural that way.   It has to sit so the cable can drop straight out the floor, IIRC I had to plan the bracket so that the cable missed the under cab framing and also the main tractor frame.   Mine had a release cable and "knob" which I mounted up on the side of the dash---way easier than bending way over to pull it.  I used mine all the time while hooking up--its the only way to keep the tractor from rolling slightly when you stop.  Back up to the implement just beside the hitch, clutch and brake, take it out of gear, release clutch, set parking brake, release brake, go back and swing the tongue over into the implement hitch, swear cause you are 1" off. Climb back in , repeat process....  If you don't set the parking brake, the tractor just rolls right back to the initial position as soon as you let go of the brake.  Something about tire elasticity, ground compression, etc....just know it always did it!

The old seat was OK until the shock failed.   Then it was like riding the bull!   I found a used seat out of a NH Genesis.   Rough but the air ride part worked and it swiveled.     It was larger than the old one and I had to remove the buddy seat I build.  (nothing fancy, 2x2s, plywood, and cushions).  

I'll go back and look at the pics with the side rails.  

Not to skip ahead, but we did some looking at the original handle today, and at ones that might work out of vehicles.  Didn't make any decisions, as we had some other more important issues to address, but the parking brake got some attention anyway.  We did make some calls to salvage yards, and much to our surprise, NO CABS in any so far!  I don't know if they got the parts stripped and the rest junked, or sold as a whole, but no luck as of yet finding any internal cab parts.  Apparently, when these come into the salvage yards, they must have a waiting list for parts, because they everyone only had a few pieces left of the machines.  Waiting on All States Ag Parts to get back to me now.  They are checking all their yards for the parts I requested.  I like your description of how you fitted the foot style brake.  Understand, this is my project, but not my machine, so I operate at the direction given.  I think the foot style brake is an easy conversion, just need a commitment to make it so.  

On the topic of the seat, this one has the "good" seat, with the swivel base.  We stuck it back in the cab today to do some fitting and planning for the RH console and buddy seat.  Seems to be in good working order, but is missing the arm rests.  I need to see if I can find them.  A Magnum seat would be so nice....  Even nicer if the console was mounted to the seat, so it swiveled with you like the new tractors..... but I can't get carried away, lol.  K.I.S.S. is the best approach.  (Keep It Simple Stupid) LOL. 

Oh, and by the way I laughed out loud at the story of backing up to the implement and being 1" off.  Isn't that always the case?  Then, you get everything hooked up and you have at least one set of hyd hoses backwards.....or you hit the lever and one pops out because you didn't have it latched in tight....  and you have to get back down again! 😠

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2 hours ago, acem said:

IH used their own axles because they advertised them as usable in row crops.  My 4366 came from a cotton farm in SE Ark??? They had it set up to straddle 38" rows with 18.4x38 duals!  It literally had cotton bolls stuck to the underside!

Let me know if you can't find the cab ac cover.  I think the tractor I got the trans from had that and I will be back down there in a few weeks.

Thx-Ace

I've never heard they advertised them as row crop tractors.... new one on me.  We were doing some measuring the other day, and I really don't think you could get it narrow enough for 30" rows though unless you set it to straddle 4.  I'm going to have to throw a tape on that tomorrow and look!  Interesting. 

Thanks for the offer Ace.  May take you up on it, because as of yet, haven't found one....  

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Thanks again for the interest guys, and thanks for the patience waiting on me to update you all.  Between my wife and I we have 5 kids between the ages of 8 and 13.  I'm pretty busy when I get off work.  We are a blended family, so we don't have all 5 all the time.... but it seems like there is always an event, homework help needed, someone not feeling good, a birthday, one set of kids coming or going to their other home, or just time that needs spent with the kids.  (Summer/warm weather is worse with yard, garden, farm, my side mechanic work...)  Between that, the fact I also have my own forum, ( A little plug for myself: It's a brand new Cub Cadet forum started this last fall. Link is on my profile page to anyone interested.) I've got a lot going on! It actually takes a lot of time to sit down and type all this up, organize the pictures.... anyone who's done a thread like this knows, lol. 

 

So.... lets see if I can make at least one more update. 

We left off with the cab getting stripped and things going to the blaster.  I got sick the week the parts were at the blaster, and it got cold as all get out here, at like -15 or something.  (I'm sure you northern guys are laughing but coldest I've ever seen it here in my lifetime is about -25..... and lets get real, -15 is COLD!)  You guys can see the shop at the farm in the background of my pictures.... no insulation.  When the wind blows, it gets pretty cold in there.  No heat on at night, so everyday you start all over again.  It was too cold to work for a few days anyway, so if I could have picked a time to be sick, I did good.  (Not funny, I was SICK.)  I got better, and things warmed up.  Parts got blasted and I went back to work.  I started preparing to put the trans back in, but we needed a way to get it in.  The telehandler was not the answer, as the guy running it is 30' foot away from the action, looking into a dark shed.  Hard to move 1" forward if you can't even see you are moving.  SO.... I started constructing a set of rails like like the IH tool.  We plan to lay some beams across the frame to simulate the cab, and lay the track on top.  Then we will have the tool to use inside the cab if the need ever arises to pull this thing again.  But, some other machines on the farm needed some quick attention, so I side tracked that project to get them done.  The sand blaster called, and we picked up the parts. Once they were at the farm, the hoods and smaller parts got stored in a heated building to keep them from rusting and the cab came in and got set up where the work could begin.  (At this time the trans is still out, and we have decided to replace several hydraulic hoses, and do some more work inside the frame while it is out of the way.  I will post pics of the tool, we made when I go back to putting the trans in.) 

Once the cab was in, hoised up it was time to start.  Sandblasting didn't really open up the rot anymore than the de-scaler did, but once everything is bare metal, it sure makes the bad spots easier to see.  Now... here's some good info.  Apparently, it isn't all that uncommon for a large scale manufacturer like Steiger to have rolls of steel delivered for manufacturing that aren't necessarily a consistent grade.  In other words, thickness may vary between the rolls of metal, and they may not be a standard metal size.  The cab metal (side sheet metal) measured and looked like 1/8" steel, so I got some 1/8" steel.  When I cut out the first piece, we quickly learned it wasn't just quick that thin.  It was about .020"-.030" thicker.  Not much I agree, but it was going to make the patches stand out like a sore thumb, and make using body filler a must.  Something we wanted to keep to a minimum, or  not use at all if possible.  Sticking a caliper on the sheet metal, it showed about 5/32", but not just quite.  Well, you can't easily get steel in that thickness.... but I was in luck.  The fab shop we use just happened to have some metal in that they had ordered for their water jet table for the grate.  They had ordered a full set of straps to replace the bars in the entire table, which is very large, and when they went to install it, it was supposed to be 1/8" but was too wide to go into the groove made for it.  A fault of the manufacturer not getting the steel rolling machine set to a fine enough tolerance.  Very similar to how large scale productions work I guess.... close enough is close enough..  well, they got stuck with a huge pile of these like 12' long by 4" tall and ?? thick straps that just happen to be really close to an exact match to what I needed!  So, we got some of it (they were more than happy to get rid of it, lol)  and found it to be a near perfect match.  

First thing was to patch up the holes cut near the doors.  We decided to paint the inside of the cavity and the bottom of the patch panel with some Rustoleum self etching primer and just flat black paint prior to welding them shut to hopefully cut down on rot.  We also added some holes in the lower portion for drainage, and holes up top so that the cavity could be flushed out with air or water.  They were completely full or rust when I cut them open. 

20190207_111922.thumb.jpg.b378bcf396932036ee3303aaaacead52.jpg

 

Over the next few pictures, as you see the finished work, the lighting makes it look like there are low spots, or erosion from the weld.  While there may be, the camera makes it look bad and it's not.  It may need a little body filler to make it completely flat, for the most part I think the epoxy primer, some 2K high build primer and sanding and they will disappear.  It isn't a show tractor, but we want it to look decent.

 

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In this last picture, you can see that the sheet metal above the patch is heavily pitted with rust.  Not sure that we are going to worry about it, but that's the kind of thing I'm talking about with it not being a show tractor.  I'll throw in a couple pics after it that show some pitting and the factory seams that were left as is.  The splices in the sheet metal are all welded on the inside, but not the outside.  That's how it was from the factory.  

 

4.9.thumb.jpg.9bd36ca60ed7d48a68fbdb9113dfe88e.jpg

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Here's some pics of the rust pitting and factory seams. As you can see, where the side panels meet the floor, the seam was open on the outside, but solid welded inside.  Now, both the left and right side of the cab were solid welded down both sides, and ground off smooth again.  There was a lot of grinding to get all this stuff at least semi flat again.  At least it's thick metal, and easy to work with. 

 

20190208_091331.thumb.jpg.96c292c60f87a6655b6dfc9a756df77e.jpg20190207_155418.thumb.jpg.3257facb6b590d65c1d8e98dd999d7eb.jpg

 

 

All the patches were solid welded inside and out, with no warpage to the metal.  That's according to "now" as I haven't ran a sander over any of this yet.  Just polished out the grind scuffs with progressively finer flap disc wheels on a die grinder.  I'm sure a little bit of bondo will be necessary....  

Just as a note, I'm doing all this welding with an ESAB Migmaster 250.  Anyone who has never ran an ESAB welder needs to go buy one now.  I've welded with all the major brand welders, and I'm sold on ESAB.  I prefer it to Miller, and Miller makes a fine, fine machine.  I have about 5 welders (as a note) and the ESAB is my favorite.  My second favorite is my (very old) Miller portable AC/DC stick.  It's old enough that if I want to use the generator portion, I have to shut it off and flip a manual DPDT switch under the hood.  It's a pain, but it's a great welder.  Has on old Onan on it, and it's been sitting several years now needing some minor engine repairs.  I need to get it out and get it fixed, if nothing else than the generator is pretty big, and could be used in an emergency.  

 

Well, we're getting close to where I am now.  Only about a week or 10 days behind my current work.  Stay tuned! 

 

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J-Mech, I enjoy looking at the progress your making. Kinda in a small way makes me wish I still had mine yet. Lol. Not really. Interesting cabs and cab parts are getting hard to find, but I haven't saw any 43s - 47s at Anderson Tractor that's not far from me for a long time. When I got my 45 in 1990 they always had several. About all were there because of engine problems. I remember seeing 45s and 47s there with rice and cains on so they came from a ways away.  In a 12 mile radius when I got mine there was 6- 4586s besides mine. A 4568, and 2-4366s. Now there's 0. Exhaust manifold donut leakage on the V-8 tractors were what most went to the shop for, and that started when they got in the 2500 hr range or 10 years old. Didn't really seem to make a difference either way. Hydraulic valve bank leakage was another thing they were in for. Otherwise I don't remember the one's around here ever getting anything serious done to them. And a few were used pretty hard too. They just all eventually started thinning out. Got traded for something or sold private. They were a good horse if you could keep them together. As discussed, if people would have taken care of the engine's better in the V-8 tractors more would be around today. The micky mouse air filter system that was too small and poorly designed, unlike Steiger, dusted alot of them. Also running up and down the road wide open. I always shot for keeping mine 2400 rpm in the field.

 

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Last time I went thru that auction place over in St Annes IL, I think he had a couple parted in the "back lot".   Don't have a clue if he sells parts or keeps then to fix up stuff he sells.  Looking good!  I assume you are gonna put a Fehr cab kit in this?   If so, see if you can get the stuff preglued to plastic backing.  I found it way easier to install than raw foam the last cab I did.  Worth the extra $$$.  They may not have it for all machines, though.

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Can you post any pictures or instructions on how the clutch disks go back together? I took my clutch apart and stacked everything up in order and oriented so I could keep it straight. While setting it off the tractor I dropped everything in the mud and they scattered. Now I don't know how it goes back together.

Luckily the disks miced out like new a new and the plates looked great so I don't have to buy a clutch.

Thx-Ace

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45 minutes ago, acem said:

Can you post any pictures or instructions on how the clutch disks go back together? I took my clutch apart and stacked everything up in order and oriented so I could keep it straight. While setting it off the tractor I dropped everything in the mud and they scattered. Now I don't know how it goes back together.

Luckily the disks miced out like new a new and the plates looked great so I don't have to buy a clutch.

Thx-Ace

Ummm..... I don't have any pics of it, but they two disks will only go in one way and everything work.  If you put one in backwards, it won't work.  The two discs are different.  Difference is in the center hub.  FIRST, look and see if you can still read any ink stamps or stickers on them.  They come marked.  Sometimes even on an old clutch, you can still see the location on them. 

If not, then hold one up to the flywheel with the taller of the spring center side out (away from flywheel).  See if the center of the disc hits the pilot bearing.  

Now try the other disc.  If one hits, it isn't the right disc.  Lay the cover plate down on the T/O bearing side, and put the disc in that doesn't hit the pilot bearing, with the taller spring side towards the ground.  Then put in the intermediate plate.  It should fit any of the 8 ways it can go in.  (No way to tell which side was against which clutch.)  Then stack the other disc on top of that again with the taller spring side facing the ground.  The two discs should have a small space between them at the splined hub.  If they are touching, either you need to switch places with the discs, or one is upside down.  It's kind of a puzzle, but it will all only work one way.  Ace, sorry I don't have any pics of the orientation.  

  

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Loving following this topic. My 4386 is a early SN 86 as well and mostly original still might be able to help you with specific pictures on parts that are common. Wish I would have put dynamat in mine when I put cab kit in. Was not overly happy with the fit of my kit. I think it was a K&M kit though. Look forward to watching the progress and seeing finished product. Shoot me a PM if you want anything specific.

As a side note my 1460 came from Oblong IL

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Are those 30.5x32 rubber on it? With my 43 had that big single tires instead of the 18.4x34 duals

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Here is are images of the big 4wd section from my 1981 International Buyers Guide. I remember climbing up and siting in these tractors when they were new at the dealer.  I was just a kid but I really liked them.  They also sold Steiger tractors but I prefer the red ones.  Thx-Ace

19814wd1.jpg

19814wd22.jpg

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Thanks guys. 

@ChrisNY  I will send you PM when I'm not on my phone.  We've actually spoke before on FB in an IH page.  You sent me a pic of your combine.  I know the man who had it here, and remember when he bought it new!

@acem Thanks for the pictures! After you posted them, I dug out my old buyers guides.  I too had a 1981 buyers guide but hadn't thought to look at them.  As far back as I have is 1979, but it didn't have any interior pics to speak of.  I need to see if I can find one on the 4wd tractor series specifically.

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On 2/19/2019 at 9:31 PM, acem said:

IH used their own axles because they advertised them as usable in row crops.  My 4366 came from a cotton farm in SE Ark??? They had it set up to straddle 38" rows with 18.4x38 duals!  It literally had cotton bolls stuck to the underside!

Let me know if you can't find the cab ac cover.  I think the tractor I got the trans from had that and I will be back down there in a few weeks.

Thx-Ace

38” would be the minimum, no way it would get on 30”

 

Ill add in my thought on the front diffs , running low on HY Tran killed them 

 

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8 hours ago, J-Mech said:

Thanks guys. 

@ChrisNY  I will send you PM when I'm not on my phone.  We've actually spoke before on FB in an IH page.  You sent me a pic of your combine.  I know the man who had it here, and remember when he bought it new!

@acem Thanks for the pictures! After you posted them, I dug out my old buyers guides.  I too had a 1981 buyers guide but hadn't thought to look at them.  As far back as I have is 1979, but it didn't have any interior pics to speak of.  I need to see if I can find one on the 4wd tractor series specifically.

Jon I'm pretty sure I have the 86 series 4WD brochure, the white roof version like you guys have.  I might also have the red cab brochure too.  I'd have to dig, as that stuff is still packed away from when we moved a few years ago.

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