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1992 Ruby Ridge

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Cost us taxpayers over $3.5 mil to settle this mess because of hothead US marshalls and FBI agents. 

Bet most never heard about the settlements...

Wonder what Waco cost us...

Image may contain: meme and outdoor, text that says 'SINCE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT US GOV SHOOTINGS LET'S NOT FORGET ABOUT RUBY RIDGE FBI SNIPERS SHOT AND KILLED VICKI WEAVER WHILE SHE WAS HOLDING HER 10MO OLD BABY'

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Last I checked Lon Horiuchi is still walking around. A free man.

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Wasnt Weavers son badly hurt or killed as well?

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5 minutes ago, iowaboy1965 said:

Wasnt Weavers son badly hurt or killed as well?

Killed his wife, 14 yr old son and his dog. 

This whole story was just a big government screw up after screw up. Pathetic. 

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Ya i kinda recall the headlines ...papers painted him as an extremist with gun violations then the story changed a bit and never knew if i got the real story straight. I think after the initial bad press he got a lot probably wrote him off as a wing nut and never went on to learn the whole story....sad deal in any case.

27 minutes ago, MTO said:

Killed his wife, 14 yr old son and his dog. 

This whole story was just a big government screw up after screw up. Pathetic. 

 

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A friend of mine talked to Randy Weaver at a gunshow some years back and said he seemed like a decent fellow.  Seems like he got really wronged.

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Dunno how you feel about wikipedia but they have a lengthy detailed read about Ruby Ridge.

Spose I`ll get RIPPED now for reading wikipedia.... sigh.

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4 hours ago, iowaboy1965 said:

Ya i kinda recall the headlines ...papers painted him as an extremist with gun violations then the story changed a bit and never knew if i got the real story straight. I think after the initial bad press he got a lot probably wrote him off as a wing nut and never went on to learn the whole story....sad deal in any case.

 

There is a lot of info you can find on this. When they finally got him to trail he got 18 months for failure to appear. All other charges were set aside, dropped or dismissed. 

Kinda like the Waco thing. I loved the testimony given to congress. "We used a non-flammable riot control agent that emits smoke".  BS, all grenade type riot control agents (tear gas or CS) has to burn to emit the agent. These agents can be applied 3 ways. Mixed with a liquid and sprayed (only effective via aircraft), as a power sprinkled on the ground or surface (intended to keep someone out of an area) and as crowd control. The only way to get it in the air where it's effective as crowd control is to heat it. The only way to make a grenade do it is to make the grenade burn. Was either the US Marshals or the FBI that lied to get the tanks involved in that too.

Rick

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Go to your township meeting and ask to get the culvert cleaned that`s flooding your basement.

Multiply that frustration by 1000 and that is just scratching the surface  of what the "man" did to these people because he had an argument with his neighbor over a property line and he and his family lived off the grid and were labeled "different"

The gestapo came...

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Honest question(s) here.

1) Numerous citizens (many if not most black) have been in the last couple of years killed by LEO's where the justification for such was "not complying to commands" .  Many here and elsewhere have stuck up for the LEO's citing that rationale....."if they would have complied you wouldn't have been shot."  I get that.

2) How is Ruby Ridge different?  Even worse than a crime/no crime being committed by many of these Weaver knew of charges against him and  failed to show for scheduled court appearances.  So when LEO's show up at his home he knew what they were there for and had the same opportunity to resolve this in a court of law like you, me, and  everyone would.  He didn't.  HE FAILED TO COMPLY.

Again how is 2 different than 1?  If peeps want to sling the mantra around of "comply with commands" it applies to all, even Gov't hating white supremacists.

IMHO Weaver is the person responsible for the death of his wife, his son, and the Federal Marshall Bill Degan.  He had EVERY opportunity "to comply".    

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I remember it all too well. Ruby, Waco and OKC. I've met Randy and he has some opinions that are not politicaly correct (and that I don't agree with). However he did not deserve what happened. Ruby and Wako caused me to loose faith in my government.

You need to read the whole story but here is brief summary.

Randy hates non whites and moves to Idaho. He associates with with supremacists but has not really done anything illegal. An undercover agent gets him to do something illegal (which was proven in court to be entrapment). The agents tell him to help them get the white supremacist or he will go to jail. He refuses and is arrested. He makes bail by putting up his home  and the judge tells him if he looses the case he will loose his home. Randy is not an educated man and assumes the worst so he holds up at his house. He dosent leave until the govt has shot and killed several family members and Bo Grit  negotiates his surrender.

Randy was cleared of all charges except failure to appear. Later he sued the US  govt in civil court and received over $3 million. The sniper who killed his wife and baby was charged with murder but the trial was moved to federal court and the charges were dropped.

If this would have happened to a left winger with today's media it would have played out very different for the govt.

Don't take my word for it, look it up.

Thx-Ace

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9 minutes ago, Atilathehun99 said:

Honest question(s) here.

1) Numerous citizens (many if not most black) have been in the last couple of years killed by LEO's where the justification for such was "not complying to commands" .  Many here and elsewhere have stuck up for the LEO's citing that rationale....."if they would have complied you wouldn't have been shot."  I get that.

2) How is Ruby Ridge different?  Even worse than a crime/no crime being committed by many of these Weaver knew of charges against him and  failed to show for scheduled court appearances.  So when LEO's show up at his home he knew what they were there for and had the same opportunity to resolve this in a court of law like you, me, and  everyone would.  He didn't.  HE FAILED TO COMPLY.

Again how is 2 different than 1?  If peeps want to sling the mantra around of "comply with commands" it applies to all, even Gov't hating white supremacists.

IMHO Weaver is the person responsible for the death of his wife, his son, and the Federal Marshall Bill Degan.  He had EVERY opportunity "to comply".    

Did you ever read what they did? The Wikipedia story doesn't tell the whole thing. They deliberately switched courts dates to screw him up. 

OK as far as  people dying at the hands of police. What are the actual numbers? How many whites, blacks, Hispanics, oriental, native Americans and others? Now how many of them were unarmed? Get your facts straight. 

For 2018 the cops killed 998. Of that 944 were male.  47 were unarmed.  229 were black. Those numbers give lie to your whole argument.

Whites account for about 69.6% of those arrested for any offences. Blacks 26.9%. 

I didn't see where anyone said Weaver was totally innocent. What it is is an example of the federal government out of control.

On the other hand you and that washed up football player have completely failed to demonstrate that cops in general are just running around indiscriminately killing blacks. That whole thing is a lie by a guy on his way out anyway trying to stay in the lime light. If you go back and look he had been playing 2nd string and was about to be canned anyway. The problem isn't his abilities. It's the fact he won't listen. All of his coaches were making the same claim. So he was done. Now this ZERO is trying to paint himself as a hero when he hasn't done anything to deserve that status. And because he is yelling social injustice you blindly jump on the bandwagon.

Tell me something komrad? Where is all this alleged social injustice? Where are cops lining up to gun down blacks? Heck where is it legal? Read the news. If a cop is involved in a questionable shooting most likely they at a minimum will be out of law enforcement. And seeing as these cops we are talking about are US citizens they too get a day in court. They still have to have this thing called evidence to convict. You hear about the ones they fail to convict, you know you can look it up. Fair number get convicted too. Just what laws are on the books anyplace in the US that prevents a black from getting an education or a job or of amassing wealth? Just where is all this injustice?

Rick

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1 hour ago, Atilathehun99 said:

Honest question(s) here.

1) Numerous citizens (many if not most black) have been in the last couple of years killed by LEO's where the justification for such was "not complying to commands" .  Many here and elsewhere have stuck up for the LEO's citing that rationale....."if they would have complied you wouldn't have been shot."  I get that.

2) How is Ruby Ridge different?  Even worse than a crime/no crime being committed by many of these Weaver knew of charges against him and  failed to show for scheduled court appearances.  So when LEO's show up at his home he knew what they were there for and had the same opportunity to resolve this in a court of law like you, me, and  everyone would.  He didn't.  HE FAILED TO COMPLY.

Again how is 2 different than 1?  If peeps want to sling the mantra around of "comply with commands" it applies to all, even Gov't hating white supremacists.

IMHO Weaver is the person responsible for the death of his wife, his son, and the Federal Marshall Bill Degan.  He had EVERY opportunity "to comply".    

Do you know any of Randy Weaver's family members?  I do.  He was entrapped because, though he refused to join them, he refused to become an informant.  He failed to show for scheduled court appearances because he was given, by the court, the wrong dates for court appearances.

Have to give you credit for trying really hard to sound like you know what you're talking about.

You've proven over and over again that you seldom do.

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1 hour ago, Atilathehun99 said:

Honest question(s) here.

1) Numerous citizens (many if not most black) have been in the last couple of years killed by LEO's where the justification for such was "not complying to commands" .  Many here and elsewhere have stuck up for the LEO's citing that rationale....."if they would have complied you wouldn't have been shot."  I get that.

2) How is Ruby Ridge different?  Even worse than a crime/no crime being committed by many of these Weaver knew of charges against him and  failed to show for scheduled court appearances.  So when LEO's show up at his home he knew what they were there for and had the same opportunity to resolve this in a court of law like you, me, and  everyone would.  He didn't.  HE FAILED TO COMPLY.

Again how is 2 different than 1?  If peeps want to sling the mantra around of "comply with commands" it applies to all, even Gov't hating white supremacists.

IMHO Weaver is the person responsible for the death of his wife, his son, and the Federal Marshall Bill Degan.  He had EVERY opportunity "to comply".    

Sorry, Atila, your question may be honest but I don’t think you are being honest here. In NYC blacks are 23% of the population but account for 75 % of all shootings. Whites make up 34% of the NYC population but account for only 2% of the shootings. If you combine the 75 largest counties in the USA, blacks make up 15% of the population but account for 62% of robberies, 57% of murders, and 45% of assaults. I’d saw law enforcement is targeting the criminals, not the race. HHHmmmm?

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/09/28/police-targeting-blacks-myth-opinion/713107001/

Edit:  By Rick’s numbers, a minority of those shot by law enforcement are black. 

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3 hours ago, MCC said:

A friend of mine talked to Randy Weaver at a gunshow some years back and said he seemed like a decent fellow.  Seems like he got really wronged.

I did meet Randy at a gunshow, got a copy of his book that tells about the RR incident. Lon is nothing but a murderer.

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22 minutes ago, ihrondiesel said:

Sorry, Atila, your question may be honest but I don’t think you are being honest here. In NYC blacks are 23% of the population but account for 75 % of all shootings. Whites make up 34% of the NYC population but account for only 2% of the shootings. If you combine the 75 largest counties in the USA, blacks make up 15% of the population but account for 62% of robberies, 57% of murders, and 45% of assaults. I’d saw law enforcement is targeting the criminals, not the race. HHHmmmm?

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/09/28/police-targeting-blacks-myth-opinion/713107001/

Edit:  By Rick’s numbers, a minority of those shot by law enforcement are black. 

The numbers I used were provided by the Washington post. According to them 456 were white. I don't recall which year but it was either 2016 or 2017 of all the blacks killed by police all but 4 were found to be justified. That's it. 4! And in every case case at a minimum cops were fired. These guys will never work in law enforcement again. I know that in 3 of the four cases at least one cop was charged and convicted. So this whole BLM thing is really a cover for some folks wanting their little criminals to get away with crime by making the cops scared to touch em.

 

Rick

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12 hours ago, oldtanker said:

Did you ever read what they did? The Wikipedia story doesn't tell the whole thing. They deliberately switched courts dates to screw him up. 

OK as far as  people dying at the hands of police. What are the actual numbers? How many whites, blacks, Hispanics, oriental, native Americans and others? Now how many of them were unarmed? Get your facts straight. 

For 2018 the cops killed 998. Of that 944 were male.  47 were unarmed.  229 were black. Those numbers give lie to your whole argument.

Whites account for about 69.6% of those arrested for any offences. Blacks 26.9%. 

I didn't see where anyone said Weaver was totally innocent. What it is is an example of the federal government out of control.

On the other hand you and that washed up football player have completely failed to demonstrate that cops in general are just running around indiscriminately killing blacks. That whole thing is a lie by a guy on his way out anyway trying to stay in the lime light. If you go back and look he had been playing 2nd string and was about to be canned anyway. The problem isn't his abilities. It's the fact he won't listen. All of his coaches were making the same claim. So he was done. Now this ZERO is trying to paint himself as a hero when he hasn't done anything to deserve that status. And because he is yelling social injustice you blindly jump on the bandwagon.

Tell me something komrad? Where is all this alleged social injustice? Where are cops lining up to gun down blacks? Heck where is it legal? Read the news. If a cop is involved in a questionable shooting most likely they at a minimum will be out of law enforcement. And seeing as these cops we are talking about are US citizens they too get a day in court. They still have to have this thing called evidence to convict. You hear about the ones they fail to convict, you know you can look it up. Fair number get convicted too. Just what laws are on the books anyplace in the US that prevents a black from getting an education or a job or of amassing wealth? Just where is all this injustice?

Rick

You didn't answer the question. just bobbed and weave around it. There is no difference,  that wasn't hard was it.

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There is no comparison, the situations are completely different. This was not a heat of the moment shooting. This was a long siege involving many members of federal law enforcement from at least three agencies. Randy was charged and went to  see the police and judge. After he determined his case was hopeless he held up at home. The govt came in and shot and killed several of his family members who were not even charged.

At least read the Wikipedia article. Here is a quote from an internal memo by the deputy assistant director of the FBI before they shot his wife and baby.

"Something to Consider

1. Charge against Weaver is Bull crap.
2. No one saw Weaver do any shooting.
3. Vicki has no charges against her.
4. Weaver's defense. He ran down the hill to see what dog was barking at. Some guys in camys shot his dog. Started shooting at him. Killed his son. Harris did the shooting [of Degan]. He [Weaver] is in pretty strong legal position.[112]"

What would happen today if a cop shot an unarmed mother and baby standing in their yard, especially if they were colored?

Think about it.

Thx-Ace

 

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1 hour ago, supermpuller said:

You didn't answer the question. just bobbed and weave around it. There is no difference,  that wasn't hard was it.

Yea there is a lot of difference when on the street in the heat of the moment a cop makes a decision and someone is dead. Way different than the government deliberately setting someone up then opening fire. Cop is there in a life and death situation and has to make that decision in a split second. A decision that if wrong can see the cop dead or an innocent person being killed.

At Ruby Ridge they had other alternatives. They (the feds) tried to entrap Weaver, then entered his property to spy on him after they switched court dates to have an excuse to go after him. Got it? Easy so far? So far this shouldn't be hard as the cop on the street didn't try setting someone up nor most often did they entrap them. That too should be easy! Then most often the cop in question repeatedly tells the offender to keep hands in view/drop it/ECT ECT. Again easy? They don't start out by shooting a dog, then a boy then after that demand a surrender. Got that part? Easy? Should be. Then bring in snipers who brag about how good they are yet they kill an innocent woman? Really? Got that part?

Gotta remember that both the boy and her should never have been shot. They are part of the numbers of LE killings that are questionable. That part should be easy too. Then some of the stuff that came out not covered by Wikipedia includes claims by local LEO's they told the feds how to arrest Weaver without a standoff or bloodshed. Should be real easy! Now I don't know about you but the Feds should be at the top of the game. They went in like the keystone cops because they were so desperate to infiltrate that supremacy group. Then they got mad cause this guy told them NO. IMO it was retaliatory.    

Now unlike others I'm not a Weaver fan. IMO he did some dumb things that got his backside in a crack. But federal LEO's really screwed that one up.

Yep no difference at all, that is if you have been at the Kool-Aid again or have decided to try to discredit someone because you hold a grudge? 

 

Rick

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17 hours ago, Atilathehun99 said:

Honest question(s) here.

1) Numerous citizens (many if not most black) have been in the last couple of years killed by LEO's where the justification for such was "not complying to commands" .  Many here and elsewhere have stuck up for the LEO's citing that rationale....."if they would have complied you wouldn't have been shot."  I get that.

2) How is Ruby Ridge different?  Even worse than a crime/no crime being committed by many of these Weaver knew of charges against him and  failed to show for scheduled court appearances.  So when LEO's show up at his home he knew what they were there for and had the same opportunity to resolve this in a court of law like you, me, and  everyone would.  He didn't.  HE FAILED TO COMPLY.

Again how is 2 different than 1?  If peeps want to sling the mantra around of "comply with commands" it applies to all, even Gov't hating white supremacists.

IMHO Weaver is the person responsible for the death of his wife, his son, and the Federal Marshall Bill Degan.  He had EVERY opportunity "to comply".    

Honest question, if a FBI agent kills your wife while holding your child you are ok with it then? Seems legit

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17 hours ago, Atilathehun99 said:

Honest question(s) here.

1) Numerous citizens (many if not most black) have been in the last couple of years killed by LEO's where the justification for such was "not complying to commands" .  Many here and elsewhere have stuck up for the LEO's citing that rationale....."if they would have complied you wouldn't have been shot."  I get that.

2) How is Ruby Ridge different?  Even worse than a crime/no crime being committed by many of these Weaver knew of charges against him and  failed to show for scheduled court appearances.  So when LEO's show up at his home he knew what they were there for and had the same opportunity to resolve this in a court of law like you, me, and  everyone would.  He didn't.  HE FAILED TO COMPLY.

Again how is 2 different than 1?  If peeps want to sling the mantra around of "comply with commands" it applies to all, even Gov't hating white supremacists.

IMHO Weaver is the person responsible for the death of his wife, his son, and the Federal Marshall Bill Degan.  He had EVERY opportunity "to comply".    

HOW DARE YOU point out the obvious hypocrisy of those who worship our heroes in blue!

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10 minutes ago, Indy Farmer said:

HOW DARE YOU point out the obvious hypocrisy of those who worship our heroes in blue!

Every response above has said this, that, or the other thing w/out addressing my root question.

When does or doesn't "failure to comply with LEO commands" apply?  I didn't think it was that hard of a question.

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28 minutes ago, Atilathehun99 said:

Every response above has said this, that, or the other thing w/out addressing my root question.

When does or doesn't "failure to comply with LEO commands" apply?  I didn't think it was that hard of a question.

Depends on if the person is of the right color or political affiliation or not.

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We don't agree on much BUT I agree on you on this one.

Laws apply to all citizens equally.  We have a real hero here, a moron that sent his wife and child  out to be killed in a raid and then gets to parade around and stir up anti-government BS.

 

 

 

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Read this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Government-Here-Kill-You-Negligence-ebook/dp/B06XG1PDKG

Check out this website:

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/category/cop-watch/police-brutality-cop-watch/

 

Law enforcement is NOT your 'friend', and the belief that law enforcement supports the Second Amendment is a fallacy.

The corruption, and contempt for the Constitution, that exists within the FBI, which supplies the 'training' and doctrine to each and every other law enforcement agency in the United States, is accepted and followed by ALL of these local and state law agencies.

The overriding agenda of law enforcement is the establishment of a police state, where THEY have control over the most minute details of your everyday life.

One of the few, if not the only thing that the previous president did, was to halt the militarization of law enforcement agencies by supplying them with surplus military equipment, unfortunately this halt has been rescinded by the current president.

These badge wearing tyrants are the REAL domestic terrorists that they warn us about.

Too bad I can't use the signature line I use on other websites.  (Suffice it to say that I despise the bast**ds.)

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