derelict TD9 starts on gas, switches to diesel, dies

[zorch 1]

We were very excited to start this TD9 last week.  Here are two short videos:

TD9 starting

Switchover to diesel:

It was so old, there was a tree growing between the blade and the dozer.  I don't think the carb is working because we were dumping gas into the intake manifold to get it to run.  Miraculously, it switched over to diesel and ran for a little while before dying.  Now that we know it works we have a few questions:

1. What is the start procedure?  In particular, what is the control to the right of the choke that rotates?  Is it for the butterfly valve in the carb?  What is the starting / running position?
2. Any ideas where to start on cleaning the diesel circuit?  I suspect the diesel in the tank is decades old.
3. What needs to be lubricated / filled / checked before we try and move it?
4. How do we move it?  What do all the levers and knobs do?

Thanks!

 

[nomorejohndeere 423]

That's a nice one

 

[ST-470 149]

Nice! Looks like a 1945 model. Best to find an op manual to answer your questions.

I hope the steering clutches aren't stuck

[waterloo 1]

What does the future hold in store for it?  would say you are very lucky it ran. Sounds like it ran out of fuel.  would clean the fuel system out tank, lines and filters

[trucker1 6]

The knob by the choke, should have a "P" on it, stands for primer, I believe, but actually just control a needle in the carb, used to give you a "little" more gas when starting. The first carbs did not have one so you had to throttle the choke to keep it running until it warmed up a little. It will only open one turn, but on both of my crawlers, I pull the choke out all the way and then open the primer about a quarter turn. When it first "pops" on gas, push the choke all the way in and then you can adjust the "P" knob to keep it running. Watch the exhaust, black smoke is too much gas so turn it in. And on the diesel side, make sure the fuel shut off under the tank was turned on. They will run on diesel for 3 to 5 minutes until what is in the lines us used up. Don't ask how I know. And ST-470 is right, get an operators manual first, it will explain how to prime the diesel system and clean and change the filters. You can get the from Binderbooks.

George,

[sugarmaker 97]

zorch,

Looks Good! As mentioned I hope the steering clutches are not stuck. Machine seems to be in good shape. Just start going through the fuel systems. Making sure fresh fuel gas and diesel are getting to the carb and pump. The machine sounded pretty good in the videos.

Regards,

 Chris

[zorch 1]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions, everyone.  The hope is that we can return the crawler to service on a 150 acre ranch which has lots of fire roads which need grading.

Lane

[rustred 305]

that crawler would be in the early 40's cause it has the bosh pump on it. later ones have the ihc pump. appears you have either pump of injector problems because  she is not firing on all 4 cyl's. should have had filters and such checked before starting.  was curious where this tree is your talking about. see a few shrubs. plus you are over reving it with that gas dumping!

[nomorejohndeere 423]

 

[nomorejohndeere 423]

Here's a more standard approach

 

[Rawleigh99 831]

And don't forget to cool it down on gas before you shut it down.. After shutting it off, switch bacdk over to diesel so the starting valves can cool on their seats.

[rustred 305]

its totally not necessary to switch back to gas, running diesel at idle cools lots faster than gas. gas runs hotter. absoulutly no benefit to switch to gas. its a diesel engine so shut down on diesel. I have lots of these gas start tractors and have yet to switch back for shutdown. 

[SONNY 82]

The injection pump on mine was stuck when I got it. make sure you drain the pump crankcase and put fresh oil in it. I think you can use screwdriver under the plungers to make sure they are loose.  Mine also had sticking start valves, a broken ball link under the rocker arm shaft. There is a ignition switch block in the end of the intake manifold that is usually bad, I had to bypass mine . Starting procedure is quite complicated and is different for each tractor, so you have to exp. to find which works on your engine.  The clutches do stick real bad if let set very long. mine was stuck when I sold it and had only sat in the shed for 1 year. thanks; sonny

[Duey_C 5]

Zorch, how are things coming with your TD9? I'm itching for updates. : - ) Dang it; your username reminds me of Larry Storch. Don't ask why: - )

I did lip-off on your engine thread about fuel system helps. Hoping that helps. I worked for weeks here to get that info together from all over this great site. :  - )

Keep us updated!

Pics and video clips are much appreciated here like you've shown already. : - )

I want more info about workarounds with a Bosch injector pump.

[zorch 1]

Hi Duey,

Thanks for checking in, and thanks for all your help.  We haven't been able to get back to the TD9 yet. Just as soon as we do, we'll post an update.

[Grabatire 0]

I had a similar issue with my TD9-91, and found the plunger was gummed up and stuck at the top of its stroke. I soaked it in lacquer thinner for few days before it would move properly.  It works good now. I should mention that I have the International pump on mine which has a single plunger. Your Bosch pump will probably have four plungers, but they may be stuck too. I have a Bosch pump on an early WD6, but have not taken one apart so I don't know how they work. I did a quick check-back on the posts and unless I missed it, I don't remember reading if you had fuel getting to the injectors.

[zorch 1]

Progress!  The float in the carburetor was sticking, which we fixed with a little sanding so it didn't rub against the case.  Idles fine running on gas, although it still needs a bit of gas in the intake to get started.  Diesel isn't working yet, but as this video shows, the hydraulics and clutches seem to be functional.

 

[zorch 1]

 

We're trying to figure out what these are:

1 - injector bleeds
2 - fuel filter outlet bleed
3 - fuel filter inlet bleed
4 - oil fill
5 - oil bleed
6 - oil drain

In addition, we're wondering what the correct sequence to bleed the air is.
 

[mmi 367]

On 2/8/2019 at 11:24 PM, Duey_C said:

Z 

I want more info about workarounds with a Bosch injector pump.

IIRC the bosch is better parts wise..as in can be rebuilt complete cheap <$400 vs 2-3 little pieces at $300+ ea

[exSW 1,952]

What a sweet old machine. I would strongly recommend using non ethanol rec gas in the start tank. The ethanol will eat the old soft materials in the lines and carb otherwise.

[crawlernut 14]

Zorch, First thing to do is get a can of diesel  or kerosene and a stiff brush and clean off that pump so dirt doesn't get into the system. I would first drain the tank to get the collected water out. Flush with a little fresh fuel and fill to 2/3 full. The fuel comes in thru the lower pipe which is covered with a rag. Under the rag is the water separator that has a large glass bowl held on with the bail (which is hanging on the pump.) There is a bleeder valve on top of the water separator. From there it goes to the transfer pump where there are 2 spring loaded ball valves. remove the balls and clean them up and reinstall. from the transfer pump it goes to the filter inlet. The thing you called the inlet bleeder ( #3) is actually the filter drain to drain off crud and water before changing the fuel filter. Change the filter and clean out the base. There is a bleeder valve on the top of filter canister. Fuel comes out of the filter and into back side of pump #8). From there it either goes to the injectors (each have a bleeder to clear air bubbles) or it returns to tank from the line on front of pump. (#9)

To bleed the system,  turn on the valve under the fuel tank, open the bleeder at water separator. When fuel come out with no bubbles, close bleeder. Now open the bleeder on the top of the filter canister and wait for the bubbles to cease, then close the bleeder.

Now start the engine on gas, and while its running advance the throttle slowly until you begin to see smoke at the exhaust. Crack open the bleeder on #1 cylinder and wait until the bubbles disappear. Repeat for #2,3 4. 

Now throw the compression release quickly upward and the engine will run on diesel. If a miss develops, go back thru the injector bleeding procedure. Make sure the air filter has been cleaned and fresh engine oil is put into holder at bottom of filter.  Jim.

[zorch 1]

Thanks crawlernut!  You're in SLO?  We're just down the road in Nipomo.  Sounds like a road trip!

[crawlernut 14]

Zorch,  I thought those oak trees and scrub in the background looked familiar.  I was guessing North County. Jim.

[sugarmaker 97]

zorch,

 Sounds like your making all the right moves. The smile on your face says you will get her running on diesel soon too. I had to bleed mine a couple times to make sure there was fuel at the injectors. When you get to that point she should run. Looks like a good machine!

Regards,

 Chris

[zorch 1]

Is there a list of fluids (volume, type), filters, plugs, etc?   In particular we’re interested in the type of oil for the diesel injector pump.