Michael Halsall

Gas start diesel engine question

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A general question about IH "gasoline start" Diesel engines as built from 1932 to 1962,

I was trying to explain what an IH gasoline start Diesel engine was, the person I was taking to asked me was it a "Direct Injection" or "Indirect Injection" type of Diesel.

My '"educated guess" was an early style of Direct Injection as the injection nozzle enters the top the combustion chamber near the intake valve. My understanding of Indirect Injection diesels engines is that the injector nozzles are above combustion chamber, in a separate space and then fuel flows down past a glow-plug. The person responded that Direct Injection is more modern style of diesel engine. Any comments from any-one on this discussion board?

P.S. Happy Christmas and all the best for 2019 - Regards from Michael H. Australiaūüź®

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IIRC they have pre-combustion chambers so ought to be indirect.  The petrol start did the warm-up that was later done by the glowplugs

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Detroit Diesel 2 stroke engines were always direct injection (so far as I know) as far back as 1939 so there is nothing new about direct injection. They also were directly started on diesel using a battery powered  electric starter  and were a common rail type injection system.

Not much really new in motor engineering!

 

 

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your answer is both they are indirect when running on gas and direct when running on diesel. The starting valve closes the precombustion chamber when switched to diesel russ  

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2 hours ago, russ said:

your answer is both they are indirect when running on gas and direct when running on diesel. The starting valve closes the precombustion chamber when switched to diesel russ  

Umm!  There is a pre-cup under the injector which has nothing to do with the starting valve

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-direct-and-indirect-fuel-injection

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18 hours ago, Ian Beale said:

Umm!  There is a pre-cup under the injector which has nothing to do with the starting valve

You are correct. They are all indirect(pre-cup). Just like the D282, D301's ect. The first IH direct injection engine was the 817 then the 429/361.

Caterpillar offered many of the same engines either pre-cup(PC) or direct injection (DI). I really don't no why. The 3406/3408 were about the last ones that were offered either way. I suppose it was harder to meet newer emission laws with the PC design.

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There was a very good article put up here a few years ago, but I cannot find it now. It was about when IH started looking into Diesel engines. They purchased several from Europe with different styles of injection. I beleave in 1919 they built a two cylinder engine that could be modified with various injections and it had a combustion viewing port.

To get down to (pc) or (di), They found that a (di) required a better consistency of quality fuel than the (pc). The (pc) engines were much more forgiving. IH was selling equipment all over the world, and quality fuel was not garenteed in many places, so desided to go with the (pc). The quality of diesel stablized  faster than expected , possably because of WWII . (there is more, but cannot remember right now!)

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they are indirect, the fuel is sprayed into a pre combustion cup under the injectors.

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Farmington Implement DVD #4, last video is a great detailed look at the design and actual parts used to make IH's Gas start diesel engines.  It's from 1935 but they never really changed design.  31 minute video,  really detailed.

And yes, Indirect injection,  pre-combustion chamber that the injector fires into.  Just watched it yesterday!

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6 hours ago, DOCTOR EVIL said:

Farmington Implement DVD #4, last video is a great detailed look at the design and actual parts used to make IH's Gas start diesel engines.  It's from 1935 but they never really changed design.  31 minute video,  really detailed.

And yes, Indirect injection,  pre-combustion chamber that the injector fires into.  Just watched it yesterday!

yes , that would be when the WD40 tractor came out with the diesel engine  ihc had the first diesel engine in north America  back then, they were way ahead of time. that diesel engine was started on gas then after 900 revolutions it automatically switched to diesel operation. then when the WD9's replaced the WD40's you had to manually switch it to diesel operation.

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On 1/15/2019 at 5:19 AM, Grumpy Gaby said:

There was a very good article put up here a few years ago, but I cannot find it now. It was about when IH started looking into Diesel engines.

I can't find that either but I did save a copy. Can anyone else find?

First two pages:

If you want the rest I best to start a new topic (rather than steal this one)

International Diesels 1r.jpg

International Diesels 2r.jpg

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Thanks James! That's it!

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yes, good stuff.thanks

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