560Dennis

Asbestos

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Looking at homesteads to retire. I was wondering where all did they use it .

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Assuming you mean in a house...

I've heard of insulation and siding.

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Yes , I’m interested in house mainly but I has to be considered anywhere. 

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Did they use it in plastering walls? 

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14 minutes ago, 560Dennis said:

Did they use it in plastering walls? 

I don’t believe so. Insulation as vermiculite was used and could have asbestos in it dependent on certain years, locations.

Old furnaces used asbestos for insulation. Siding, and possibly shingles but those all should have been replaced by now. 

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/publications/publishing.nsf/Content/asbestos-toc~asbestos-typical-home

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Just now, Ihfan4life said:

I don’t believe so. Insulation as vermiculite was used and could have asbestos in it dependent on certain years, locations.

Old furnaces used asbestos for insulation. Siding, and possibly shingles but those all should have been replaced by now. 

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/publications/publishing.nsf/Content/asbestos-toc~asbestos-typical-home

choose wisely or have it certified free in the contracts

have heard it used in all the above   floor tile seem to be the least dust (when we did it in the 70's)   for walls over lathe the most dust and they recommended hide in place.

govt has been known to moderately price buildings to rope some one, then after tangling them in construction loans deny permits unless "their" asbestos is correctly removed  3x $ value of project     locally it went for 10 years until bankrupt owner,  owed for complete demo and spent 6 months in jail.

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Lot of asbestos is still out there. A lot of the tiles/shingles/siding was covered over with new because it was cheaper that way. Now that's not saying that they did it to hid asbestos. Some were covered over before the dangers were known just because it was the cheapest way to do it. You can find in old furnaces as was stated but also as insulation on boilers and pipes for hot water heat. 

On homes old enough to have asbestos? My suggestion is to have a competent inspector in to look at it even if you have to pay out of pocket. 2-300 to an inspector is way cheaper than paying for the cleanup.

 

Rick

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4 minutes ago, oldtanker said:

 

On homes old enough to have asbestos? My suggestion is to have a competent inspector in to look at it even if you have to pay out of pocket. 2-300 to an inspector is way cheaper than paying for the cleanup.

 

Rick

We were quoted over $3000 to clean up less than 100 square feet of vermiculite because it might have asbestos in it.  

 

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There are two categories of abestos.  Friable and non friable.  The bad asbestos is the kind that releases fibers into the air when disturbed.  Without looking i beliebe this is the friable kind.

Yes it was used in plaster but it is pretty rare around here.  Horse hair plaster is still real prevelant and poses no known health risks.  If the home predates the 1900s good chance the plaster is abestos free. 

I have seen it on cast boiler piping. Most boilers of that vintage are long gone but there can be insulation or even residue on piping running across basements etc.

There is still quite a bit of abestos siding here too.  It is hard like glass and poses no health risks.  Usually it is removed and not covered when residing a home.  If someone tries to nail new siding to it the tiles break and pieces fall down behind the new siding.  The local landfill excepts abestos siding like any other trash as it is considered nonfriable? The biggest issue can be insurance.  A lot of companies dont like to insure abestos sided homes because of the risk of having to reside the whole place.  Like i mentioned earlier the tiles are hard/potentially brittle.  When something happens and some tiles get broken the only option is residing the home.

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15 minutes ago, oldtanker said:

Lot of asbestos is still out there. A lot of the tiles/shingles/siding was covered over with new because it was cheaper that way. Now that's not saying that they did it to hid asbestos. Some were covered over before the dangers were known just because it was the cheapest way to do it. You can find in old furnaces as was stated but also as insulation on boilers and pipes for hot water heat. 

On homes old enough to have asbestos? My suggestion is to have a competent inspector in to look at it even if you have to pay out of pocket. 2-300 to an inspector is way cheaper than paying for the cleanup.

 

Rick

Yes i agree a lot of siding waa covered over many years ago.  Now adays it is too brittle to cover over.  It was much more pliable in years gone by.

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1 minute ago, Ihfan4life said:

We were quoted over $3000 to clean up less than 100 square feet of vermiculite because it might have asbestos in it.  

 

I think lots of it gets covered up for two reasons:

Number one, many people are jaded by the EPA and others crying wolf so many times on other threats so they don't take warnings seriously.  As in "this product is known by the state of California to cause cancer", or something like that. I think lots of things we're exposed to cause cancer, but lots of things don't, and an agency loses credibility when it includes almost everything on its lists.

Number two, the cleanup is so exorbitantly expensive, at least in part because of the bureaucratic maze involved, that it's very tempting to cover it up or ignore it.

A similar issue involves lead levels in building materials.  Last I knew, the EPA could fine someone like me over $30,000 per day for disturbing over six square feet of painted or plastered surface in any house built before 1978, unless that person took a week long class, got certified by the EPA, filled out and sent in 3 part forms for approval before doing the work, got the surfaces involved tested before doing the work, etc. etc.

I've been in the home repair business full time for many years, and without passing judgement on whether this high level of regulation is good or bad, can tell you this: the people I know, (and these are quality contractors) who've attended the lead contamination classes, refused to pay the bribe to get their certification and decided not to work on old houses any more.  So Joe Schmoe gets his brother in law to come over on the weekend and splits a case of beer with him to tear out that wall without masks or negative pressure ventilation, and clean up with a broom and a dustpan. Problem made worse, not better.  Granted, Joe and his BIL may not be the sharpest knives in the drawer, but that doesn't change that fact that this is the way it works.

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13 minutes ago, hobbyfarm said:

Yes i agree a lot of siding waa covered over many years ago.  Now adays it is too brittle to cover over.  It was much more pliable in years gone by.

That's what I was referring too is what was done years ago. Contractors around here refused to do any work on something they suspect has asbestos in it today. They are afraid that somehow it will come back on them.

On a side note. Not far from me is a closed state hospital. It's the property of a local "city" town. The US historical society has the site listed as an historical site. All of the building have asbestos in them. All need renovated or torn down. Can't tear em down because of the historical society. City can't afford to pay to remove the asbestos much less to renovate them. So they can't find a buyer for the property either. Been watching this "problem" going on for years. Same town has an old concrete grain elevator that belongs to the city. Sits right next to a small river. When the owners closed it down and couldn't sell they (a company) figured it would be better off letting the city take it for taxes and stopped paying taxes. The elevator needs torn down. The EPA impact makes that a very expensive project. The concrete has tons of lead based paint on it and sits about 50 yards from the river. City has been trying to figure out what to do on that for decades too.

 

Rick

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4 minutes ago, Steve C. said:

I think lots of it gets covered up for two reasons:

Number one, many people are jaded by the EPA and others crying wolf so many times on other threats so they don't take warnings seriously.  As in "this product is known by the state of California to cause cancer", or something like that. I think lots of things we're exposed to cause cancer, but lots of things don't, and an agency loses credibility when it includes almost everything on its lists.

Number two, the cleanup is so exorbitantly expensive, at least in part because of the bureaucratic maze involved, that it's very tempting to cover it up or ignore it.

A similar issue involves lead levels in building materials.  Last I knew, the EPA could fine someone like me over $30,000 per day for disturbing over six square feet of painted or plastered surface in any house built before 1978, unless that person took a week long class, got certified by the EPA, filled out and sent in 3 part forms for approval before doing the work, got the surfaces involved tested before doing the work, etc. etc.

I've been in the home repair business full time for many years, and without passing judgement on whether this high level of regulation is good or bad, can tell you this: the people I know, (and these are quality contractors) who've attended the lead contamination classes, refused to pay the bribe to get their certification and decided not to work on old houses any more.  So Joe Schmoe gets his brother in law to come over on the weekend and splits a case of beer with him to tear out that wall without masks or negative pressure ventilation, and clean up with a broom and a dustpan. Problem made worse, not better.  Granted, Joe and his BIL may not be the sharpest knives in the drawer, but that doesn't change that fact that this is the way it works.

LOL you gotta add in the added cost of some stuff to follow up inspections and the added cost of the tons of paperwork involved.

 

Rick 

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We have a very active safety program about it at work, and we keep finding it in small amounts a lot of places.  It can be in anything, insulation, mastic and glues, wall paper and coverings, fiberglass, siding, floor tiles, roofing, ceiling tiles, gypsum board, the old popcorn cieling spray, and more.  

 

follow what has been mentioned about friable asbestos, and if you don’t expose or disturb it it usually won’t hurt you.  And they can do a HEPA inspection, which is basically they use a filter and look at what they find

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My house has asbestos tile in the kitchen. 10"x10". Google will have lots of pictures of it.

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had an old coal converted to.oil furnace. outside covered in a layer of asbestos. i wet it down with a hose then broke it off put in a trash bag all the time wetting it down and wearing a dust mask. you dont want the fibers floating in the air. sealed the bags and threw them in dumpster. then i beat the carcass into manageable pieces to carry out basement. the key is too wet it down

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painting thee surface encapsulates it so the fibers cant get airborne

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Yes friable is easily air borne if disturbed. As mentioned its the dust or airborne fibers that are bad. Just touching asbestos tile or siding wont hurt anyone. Its legal , i belive, in industry to leave it be as long as its not being disturbed or crumbling and being made airborne. If it is it needs to be encapsulated or removed. And as said that usually means wetting it down so it wont become airborne. Not sure what regs are now on who can remove it and how but im sure it keeps getting more an more regulated.

Asbestos was used in a wide variety of products over many years so an inspection might not be a bad idea.

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If you guys are working on asbestos,  you should wear a mask, but use one that is HEPA rated, it will work on particles small enough to catch the asbestos fibers.  If your wetting it down add a surfactant like laundry softener, soap, or and equal, it will help.  Also keep the kids away and launder your clothes before going home (or wear a disposable suit like tyvek)

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I work at a refinery quite often, and the asbestos abatement team will work next to our crane. They're all suited up and run a red rope around the area where they are working. Sometimes tying the rope to the outrigger of the crane, I guess that the dust knows not to blow past the rope!! 

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Suppose to be enclosed in plastic sheeting or something i thought?

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I saw an item years ago around this that pointed out a problem for San Francisco.  Apparently due to its geology the air has an asbestos content that doesn't pass EPA regulations.

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5 hours ago, Steve C. said:

I think lots of it gets covered up for two reasons:

Number one, many people are jaded by the EPA and others crying wolf so many times on other threats so they don't take warnings seriously.  As in "this product is known by the state of California to cause cancer", or something like that. I think lots of things we're exposed to cause cancer, but lots of things don't, and an agency loses credibility when it includes almost everything on its lists.

Number two, the cleanup is so exorbitantly expensive, at least in part because of the bureaucratic maze involved, that it's very tempting to cover it up or ignore it.

A similar issue involves lead levels in building materials.  Last I knew, the EPA could fine someone like me over $30,000 per day for disturbing over six square feet of painted or plastered surface in any house built before 1978, unless that person took a week long class, got certified by the EPA, filled out and sent in 3 part forms for approval before doing the work, got the surfaces involved tested before doing the work, etc. etc.

I've been in the home repair business full time for many years, and without passing judgement on whether this high level of regulation is good or bad, can tell you this: the people I know, (and these are quality contractors) who've attended the lead contamination classes, refused to pay the bribe to get their certification and decided not to work on old houses any more.  So Joe Schmoe gets his brother in law to come over on the weekend and splits a case of beer with him to tear out that wall without masks or negative pressure ventilation, and clean up with a broom and a dustpan. Problem made worse, not better.  Granted, Joe and his BIL may not be the sharpest knives in the drawer, but that doesn't change that fact that this is the way it works.

My farmer buddy's still has asbestos siding on his home and many of the older homes in the Texas  back country around here also do.   Not an issue until you go  to sell your property, by then it should be gone.

If you want a truly hazard free home you should be looking in California because they have very strict laws or get something new.  Based on recent events, Ca should also have strict laws on fires and rain.

 

 

 

 

 

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In all states do the seller have to fill out a disclosure form for lead paint and asbestos?

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