fbh31118 Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 Getting ready to put the fuel bowl back on the tank and test things and got to looking at the picture. Is this correct for a dual fuel H? The line going into the fuel bowel from the starter tank says 'OUT' on it. With the direction the lines go, it would make the most logical sense but I just wanted to let everyone look at it and give me your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John cub owner Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 Yes, it looks correct. The 2 outlets are connected internally. To use the starter tank you turned off the sediment bowl and opened the petcock on the starter tank. The fuel flowed in one outlet and out the other to the engine. Our dual fuel was only used on gasoline, but we also kept the little tank full in case we ran out in the field. 2 or 3 times a year we would switch to the little tank and use it empty and refill it to keep fresh fuel in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbh31118 Posted September 14, 2018 Author Share Posted September 14, 2018 Thank you for your input John! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Robinson Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 The one labeled OUT should go to the carb. IN should go to the starting tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John cub owner Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 I would have to check mine to be sure, but I think they are both labeled out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 Be careful with it----------they are really hard to find. (A must to do a restoration on a 'distillate' burner) Nice find. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fputnamjr Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 According to a long time IH parts guy who's an encyclopedia on letter series Farmalls, this is the correct configuration. This is a '42 model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy hall Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 the last picture is right. No such thing as a dual-fuel H, you have either a high compression or low compression engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fputnamjr Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 15 hours ago, randy hall said: the last picture is right. No such thing as a dual-fuel H, you have either a high compression or low compression engine. They were called multi-fuel or dual fuel tractors because they started on one kind of fuel and ran on another. Had nothing to do with high or low compression. All of the multi-fuel of all brands at that time had lower compression ratios; they were designed to run distillate fuel that had variable octane from 35 to 50 or so depending upon the day of the week and a much lower flash point than gas so it was hard to start on distillate. Hence starting on gasoline and switching over to the thicker (and cheaper) distillate once the engine reached operating temp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12_Guy Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 I'm not sure about this. I'm guessing that either way may be correct. There could have been a change in production. In the original pic, it appears to have been that way forever. Looks very original to me. I would go with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy hall Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 8 hours ago, fputnamjr said: They were called multi-fuel or dual fuel tractors because they started on one kind of fuel and ran on another. Had nothing to do with high or low compression. All of the multi-fuel of all brands at that time had lower compression ratios; they were designed to run distillate fuel that had variable octane from 35 to 50 or so depending upon the day of the week and a much lower flash point than gas so it was hard to start on distillate. Hence starting on gasoline and switching over to the thicker (and cheaper) distillate once the engine reached operating temp. they weren't called dual fuel or multi fuel because they started on gas and ran on something else. the IH owners manual says to obtain best results use the fuel the engine was designed for. Sure you could pay a lot more for premium gas to put in your car but it would be a waste of money. Dual fuel is a john deere term. From the owners manual gasoline 70 octane distillate 36 octane kerosene 0 octane. Every different part of the country uses different terms for the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skagit Farmer Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 My understanding is that originally the sediment bowl was on the starting tank. IH came out later with a modification kit that relocated the sediment bowl to the main tank as it was less likely to be damaged tucked away under there. I have an original H owners manual from 1940 and that is what the parts diagram shows (bowl on starting tank). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomH Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 8 hours ago, fputnamjr said: Had nothing to do with high or low compression. Each engine had the proper cylinder head to provide the proper compression ratio for the intended fuel as well as a manifold and radiator shutters that allowed higher temperatures. Kerosene heads had the lowest compression and gasoline heads the highest. 35 minutes ago, randy hall said: the IH owners manual says to obtain best results use the fuel All will run on gas but it was not the idea for them to use whatever was available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy hall Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 wouldn't make much sense to run a fuel that cost a lot more in an engine to get one third less power. don't forget if you used the lower grade fuels you had to run a quart or two of motor oil on the ground every morning. That is what the lower petcock is for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kracked1 Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Randy, at that time the tractor fuel was much cheaper than gasoline. It more than made up for the issues you stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel Doctor Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 This is the IH parts diagram. There were different versions. I have my 41 back to original including the manifold heat shield. Mine uses 17 on the small tank and small tank to strainer 14 under big tank. The dual line strainer is very hard to find. I had mine helicoiled to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fputnamjr Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 11 hours ago, randy hall said: they weren't called dual fuel or multi fuel because they started on gas and ran on something else. the IH owners manual says to obtain best results use the fuel the engine was designed for. Sure you could pay a lot more for premium gas to put in your car but it would be a waste of money. Dual fuel is a john deere term. From the owners manual gasoline 70 octane distillate 36 octane kerosene 0 octane. Every different part of the country uses different terms for the same thing. Beg to differ. The reason for the separate starting tank was to start on gas because there's no way they'd start on distillate once it got cool outside. The distillate was also known as Tractor Vaporizing Oil or TVO. Start on gas, switch to TVO. Early Farmalls letter series were called all fuel or multi-fuel tractors. Check out this link: http://www.retiredtractors.com/Q/Distillate.html. The function the same for all of the brands that ran TVO at the time not just JD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fputnamjr Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 10 hours ago, Skagit Farmer said: My understanding is that originally the sediment bowl was on the starting tank. IH came out later with a modification kit that relocated the sediment bowl to the main tank as it was less likely to be damaged tucked away under there. I have an original H owners manual from 1940 and that is what the parts diagram shows (bowl on starting tank). That's what our old time Farmall parts expert said, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWV Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Depends on the serial number how it was built, but IH made change over parts that could be added. IH never used the term all fuel. Gasoline, Distillate or Kerosene was used to ID fuel types. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy hall Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 On 9/16/2018 at 1:09 AM, fputnamjr said: They were called multi-fuel or dual fuel tractors because they started on one kind of fuel and ran on another. Had nothing to do with high or low compression. All of the multi-fuel of all brands at that time had lower compression ratios; they were designed to run distillate fuel that had variable octane from 35 to 50 or so depending upon the day of the week and a much lower flash point than gas so it was hard to start on distillate. Hence starting on gasoline and switching over to the thicker (and cheaper) distillate once the engine reached operating temp. must mean a MD is a dual fuel tractor. It starts on gasoline and runs on diesel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John cub owner Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 My 41 is no longer set up as original, but My Dad farmed with it for 45 years, and I was raised on it, and it was originally setup as in the first picture. And originally they were not called dual fuel, or multi fuel, they were called distillate, or kerosene, or gasoline tractors. Of course, the gasoline versions did not have the small tank on them nor a hole in the hood for it. The reason for the distillate or kerosene was they cost about half as much as gasoline, but on a per pound basis would do the same amount of work, so you actually got a little more work out of a gallon of distillate or kerosene. The down side was dirtier oil, requiring more frequent changes if you took proper care of your tractor, and the extra time to warm the engine and change over to distillate, which involved readjusting the carb each time the change was made, as well as the fact the engine had to be kept hot. Unless you were working it really hard, the radiator shutters needed to be adjusted regularly, to keep it hot but not over heating, and if it was really light work, it frequently required restarting on gasoline and warming back up to get to run on heavier fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy hall Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Thank you for a nice explanation John. When the H and M came out in '39 they were all low compression engines, just like the f-20.Although it didn't take long for people to want more power so high compression gasoline engines became the norm. A third more power from the same size engine sounds like a no brainer to me. Does anyone know how the Oliver 70 got it's model number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdse25 Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 On 9/14/2018 at 10:01 PM, fputnamjr said: According to a long time IH parts guy who's an encyclopedia on letter series Farmalls, this is the correct configuration. This is a '42 model. That’s how my 39 model is set up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWV Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 On 9/18/2018 at 12:26 PM, Bdse25 said: That’s how my 39 model is set up Yes serial 501 to 50865 used the strainer under the starting tank. 50866 and up used the strainer under the main fuel tank. What can get confusing is the main fuel tanks had 1/4 pipe threads to serial 15743 then 3/8 pipe threads after. So more than one number strainers and fuel shut off valves were used. Picture would be wrong for a 42 model. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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