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Missing Iowa College Student Mollie Tibbetts Found Dead


ThirdGenRed

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Why am I NOT surprised?  Perhaps IF they were a little bit more concerned about ENFORCING the law, instead of labeling Christians, veterans, and Christians as "potential domestic terrorists', and calling for more and more gun control, and the further erosion of OUR Constitutional Rights, they could have stopped at least some of these crimes committed by these ILLEGALS.

https://www.google.com/search? q=law+enforcement+support+of+sanctuary+cities&oq=law+enforcement+support+of+sanctuary+cities&aqs=chrome..69i57.12945j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

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22 hours ago, Art From DeLeon said:

Much like the megalomania displayed by the America HATING MUSLIM?  I find it hard to believe that YOU allowed that to slip by.

 

download.jpg.ea6f9be2821f501ff9f7bc5830218266.jpg Who picked up the 'pose' from Il Duce  507205143_download(2).jpg.d223f4486a0738a0c87966e60a055826.jpg

Talk about narcissistic:

https://www.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/terence-p-jeffrey/i-me-my-obama-uses-first-person-singular-199-times-speech-vowing

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2171006/Video-President-Obama-says-words-I-total-117-times-ONE-speech.html

And I don't recall the 'majikal' America HATING MUSLIM ever thanking the voters, UNLESS describing them as "And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." was the "progressive way of 'thanking' them.

Like I have said in the past, one of the MANY reasons the LYING, LIBERAL, ELITIST, SEWAGE of the MEDIA adore(ed) the America HATING MUSLIM, is that they had finally found someone who HATED America, its values, its FREEDOMS, the Constitution, Christianity, the Military, its Euro-centric heritage and culture as much as, if NOT more, than does the SEWAGE of the MEDIA themselves. (The ONLY thing he did NOT give the MUSLIM culture their due credit for was using their left hand to wipe their ass, but the way he drew flies, one has to wonder whether he understood the concept of washing afterwards).

They thought they had found their 'saviour' in Ol' Billy Bob Bentdick, but Ol' Billy Bob got side tracked by that patch of hair between a woman's legs, AND the pleasure of a good BJ, and let socialism slide off to the back burner, but the 'majikal' HALFRICAN was, and remains a hard 'corpse' communist, much to the delight of the SEWAGE, and the Criminal Btich would have continued his halfassed 'legacy' onwards and upwards towards 1444467211_download(3).jpg.1677398895e31adda59b956b82db1224.jpg  kn  I guess that the "price of arugula" is a slap at those 'deplorables' in 'flyover country', who must content themselves with common spinach.

Art your hate of Obama, Hillary, Democrats, MSM, ect. is know and has been widely documented by yourself.  I have no problem w/ that.  We as Americans are entitled to express our opinions freely.  However.....

Unfortunately your above is a regurgitation of such and IMHO is purely a deflection to respond to the subject of my post; our current POTUS, his actions, his words.

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Atilla,  your position is as well known as Art's so his regurgitation is no different than yours, he's a constitutional conservative and your a progressive liberal. No new information there. Big deal, world is still turning. 

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23 hours ago, Tonyinca said:

Okay mr intelligence give us solutions . 

 For a start a POTUS who truly is working in the best interests of not himself, but the USA even it that means a more truly conservative Pence.

 Tell your choice of president and what you think would be happening. 

Unapologetically I voted for Hillary.  I saw her as the better person sitting in the office as opposed to Drumpf.  I have stated often, here I know also, that I believed that Hillary had  a better than even chance of being an average POTUS and that I envisioned Drumpf to have a much better than even chance to be the worst, if not one of the worst, POTUS's this Great Nation has ever had.  Since she was not elected we cannot know what her performance would be.  On the other hand given what we have seen Drumpf is well on his way to prove me true.

Very honestly I have only voted for one Repub in my life, and he was a local Sheriff that I knew well.  If Kasich had run instead of Drumpf there's a good chance I would have pulled the "R" lever for the second time in my life.

Without going to Internet to quote your answers. 

My above came totally from my head, heart, and gut w/out any other source.

Speak from your experience and knowledge . 

I know you take great pride, as you should, in being an older individual who has observed a lot.  Don't think yourself the only one that's been around the block a time or 100 times though.  My first interest and following of "the greater world" and politics began during the Cuban Missile Crisis.  One minute I was a young country'farm boy learning to plow and playing baseball w/ friends in the neighborhood to wondering if nuclear war was going to destroy nations and millions of lives.  From that minute sitting in front of the television listening to President Kennedy's address the nation I became focused on how others, in Washington and elsewhere around the world, could impact my life and those of my family, friends, community, and Nation Through time I've learned a lot about people  and I know snake oil when I see it.  I'm seeing it now.

I want to change my perspective help me accomplish that. But once I since you speaking talking points you'll lose me 

We both know I can't change your perspective.  I don't intend here to change anyone's opinion(s).  Instead my words are meant more to remind that there are many others who might feel differently that they do.  Frankly we have too many polarized both left and right and not nearly enough, as historically been the case, who are moderates and able and willing to compromise for the betterment of our Nation.  Of course we all know that currently "moderate" and "compromise' are dirty words.  Shame on us.

 

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I'm sorry Atilla,  it's not shame on us. We, the Republic made a decision your not happy with. Your turn now, last time it was my/our  turn. One thing about conservatives, they want to preserve rights, liberals want to strip them away 99% for .5 percent of population(or much less) in hope of enticing voters and play the moral high ground (Yea right, men in dresses) and right now they are fighting harder for foreign invaders  (illegals) than they are for citizens in hopes of recruiting voters. Hillary would have made even more free trade deals that have lead to lower crop prices and trade deficits. And compromise for the left now means women are men and men are women and illegal immigrant children are more important than American born children since the Democrats need new voters. Sorry that you and Tanker are obviously butt hurt but Im sure y'all can find a safe space and if needed I'll mail y'all some crayons & coloring books. If not maybe Obumacare will pay for y'all some counseling, that is if he let you keep your healthcare provider like he promised. Have you heard of the "Silent Majority"?The electorate spoke, suck it up, one day it will be your turn, just not today and probably not tomorrow either.

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4 hours ago, ArkLa 1086 said:

We should "harshly" defend our borders. Not saying shoot to kill everyone but I feel they wouldn't be so eager to climb over/under if they knew we were putting the adequate manpower to secure the wall and then once they are caught it is off to prison before being deported. I believe you would harshly defend the walls of your own home if someone was trying to sneak in, there is no difference here. The wall is just a symbol to you but I bet  the lock on your front door is more than a symbol. Just because they are coming for a better life means nothing. People rob banks because the money can make their lives better but we don't take it easy on them.  If some homeless/vagrant comes into your home to squat because it's a better life than sleeping outdoors make it ok or morally acceptable? If it does somehow make it morally or ethicly acceptable since they are coming for a better life how many are you willing to take in to your home? You say all the things mentioned won't work but mention nothing that will as Tony had mentioned about in a previous post. A saying my father had when he dealt with someone who was full of Can't was " Your telling me all the reasons you can't when you should be spending your time looking for the ONE way that you can." Also, I don't doubt your experiences with the Berlin Wall or the DMZ, but to say they didn't work I feel would be incorrect. How many people were able to sneak across both of them? 500? 1000? 5000? Seems successful compared to the 8-12 MILLION that have made it across our border. So I would have to say walls do work or they wouldn't be used anymore by anyone. I feel you and Tilla being on the liberal end of the spectrum has led yall to believe "Oh well, nothing we can do to stop it, they just coming for a better life." Or "it's a Trump idea so I'm 1000% against it regardless of what it is."  

I agree we should harshly defend our borders. However we don't and we won't. We hate to see ourselves as the bad guy and what are you when you deny a person the chance to better themselves? You are the bad guy. So forget "harshly" defending our borders. With changing political landscapes ever 2-4 years the only way to impose harsh immigration laws and to  keep them in place is to convert to a dictatorship. You willing to accept that? One type will build fences to keep the population in and the other to keep people out.

As far as how many will get past the wall? Millions. It won't even slow them down for more than a month or 2.

Hate to tell you this but tilla and me are about as far separate on the political spectrum as can be. Could care less who's idea it is IMO it isn't workable. Heck could have been Obama's idea, still wouldn't work. That's me, with experiences on borders most of you really can't imagine. Plus a former tactics instructor. Tactically it fails because all it is is a fence. There is nothing in place to add to that deterrent. And border fences have never been all that effective. Get this. A short boat ride would get you past that fence and you won't have to trek through the desert to get to a desirable destination. Just because I don't buy off on the "wall" being a great idea doesn't make me a liberal. Just makes me someone who doesn't accept someone else's word for a solution. In other words I don't let others think for me. So you can save insults for someone who cares.

 

Rick

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28 minutes ago, oldtanker said:

I agree we should harshly defend our borders. However we don't and we won't. We hate to see ourselves as the bad guy and what are you when you deny a person the chance to better themselves? You are the bad guy. So forget "harshly" defending our borders. With changing political landscapes ever 2-4 years the only way to impose harsh immigration laws and to  keep them in place is to convert to a dictatorship. You willing to accept that? One type will build fences to keep the population in and the other to keep people out.

As far as how many will get past the wall? Millions. It won't even slow them down for more than a month or 2.

Hate to tell you this but tilla and me are about as far separate on the political spectrum as can be. Could care less who's idea it is IMO it isn't workable. Heck could have been Obama's idea, still wouldn't work. That's me, with experiences on borders most of you really can't imagine. Plus a former tactics instructor. Tactically it fails because all it is is a fence. There is nothing in place to add to that deterrent. And border fences have never been all that effective. Get this. A short boat ride would get you past that fence and you won't have to trek through the desert to get to a desirable destination. Just because I don't buy off on the "wall" being a great idea doesn't make me a liberal. Just makes me someone who doesn't accept someone else's word for a solution. In other words I don't let others think for me. So you can save insults for someone who cares.

 

Rick

No insults to you, I asked how many crossed the Berlin wall and the DMV since you said walls don't work and in comparison I stated Federal statistics of 8-12 million illegal aliens as a  comparison. So one would have to assume walls do work, if you disagree I think Israel proves you wrong. Also, requiring an immigrant to follow policy and law doesn't make me or any other citizen a bad guy. It's  the law, I don't like filing income taxes but it's the LAW. That's something the illegal border crossers don't care about. About bettering themselves I don't care, they are not an American citizens, why don't you have the same outlook for citizens. I was told charity starts at home. I'm sure you pay your light bill before you worry about your neighbors light bill, right? If you do you must be a bad guy with your logic. If you feel that strongly how many are you willing to take into your home? Also quit saying "we" unless you have a mouse in your pocket because only you and atilla are pro-illegal immigration. And yes you and Tilla are LIBERALS, not a shooting offense but to each their own. Also once again Israel proves your theory about walls don't work is false. The Berlin wall worked, the DMZ works/worked. We have 8-12 million crossed our borders and how many crossed both of those combined? Less than 5000. Sounds pretty successful over 50 years. So successful that if we had that low number here politicians wouldn't even know about illegal immigration. Your outlook is just full of CAN'T, same as Tilla's. That's the reason I ask how many illegals are the both of you willing to bring into your own home since y'all don't want to be the bad guy, they only want to better themselves right? I want to better myself too, so just mail me a check.  And you don't want to be the bad guy by expecting someone to follow the law. Right? Since the immigration law doesn't matter to you what other laws don't/shouldn't matter? It doesn't make me or anyone else a bad guy to expect others to be held to the same standards I am held to, following the law. After all I'm sure I could better my life if I came to your house and stole all your stuff and sold it, what would be wrong with that using your logic? I'm just trying to pay my bills off and give my family a better life, your on board with that right? You don't want to be a bad guy after all, do you? 

 

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Putting your self in the illegals shoes for a second, you come from a ****hole country would you not do everything you possibly could to better your life and families life.

There needs to be a way to quickly address that...some kind of fast track immigration at a border for those who want to protect family... As in sorry men your not getting in unless your family is with you...then maybe radio tracking to monitor and make sure they are benefiting society as in no medicade welfare, pay in taxes, etc. Make it easy to better your family, but hard to come here and disappear, hard to contact home country,  kinda like immigrants use to do. Cut ties with old country....

If someone is willing to assimilate I'd welcome them...kinda like Montana fastest way to be hated is to say we did it this way in California.... Leave and forget old country...

Raises lots more issues, I love my country and want it secure, but all human lives are important. 

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I understand your outlook Mader but I believe as long as we have homeless/jobless/struggling citizens we shouldn't be so preoccupied with the rest of the world's down trodden. I'm not heartless, I just believe we should take care of our own first before worrying about others. Just as I'm sure you pay your bills before worrying about anyone's elses. Doesn't make you a heartless SOB, just makes you responsible citizen. After all I'm sure the vast majority of South America, Asia, Russia and Eastern Europe would like our standard of living but if they were all here the citizens standard of living would go down. Just like your and my standard of living would go down if we had 6 houseguest to worry about. But first and foremost they are not American citizens, we are not responsible for their well being. We have a legal immigration route already. They should follow it like we the citizens have to follow the law.

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11 minutes ago, mader656 said:

 

Putting your self in the illegals shoes for a second, you come from a ****hole country would you not do everything you possibly could to better your life and families life.

There needs to be a way to quickly address that...some kind of fast track immigration at a border for those who want to protect family... As in sorry men your not getting in unless your family is with you...then maybe radio tracking to monitor and make sure they are benefiting society as in no medicade welfare, pay in taxes, etc. Make it easy to better your family, but hard to come here and disappear, hard to contact home country,  kinda like immigrants use to do. Cut ties with old country....

If someone is willing to assimilate I'd welcome them...kinda like Montana fastest way to be hated is to say we did it this way in California.... Leave and forget old country...

Raises lots more issues, I love my country and want it secure, but all human lives are important. 

And "those" with families are the worst of all, since they have absolutely NOTHING to contribute, except an additional drain on OUR resources for an indeterminate amount of time, depending on the ages of the women.  Nah, make it clear that they will get NOTHING, and send them back to their THIRD WORLD hovels, before they bring us down to the same 'living conditions' that they left, thanks to OUR open borders welcoming them into the welfare state.

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Once thing about Ms. Tibbits CONFESSED MURDERER, who is offended that he is being described as an ILLEGAL.

One would think that our 'friends' in the MEDIA, who have such an established reputation for their "investigative reporting", would have shown us, that since he claims to be here legally, his state and federal tax records, along with proof that he is NOT on welfare.

After all, THEY are on his side, and I'll bet that the networks, along with individual 'reporters',  have established a fund to pay his legal team.

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14 hours ago, Atilathehun99 said:

 

Our lives' paths have given us different prospectives in what we see today.

i appreciate you answering in a conversational way it gives more in site to the person instead of snippets that only serve to infuriate .

my extended family and I were all Democrates 

my parents & grandparents died as Democrats back in 60's 70's. 

I changed to Republican in late 70's and today I see the what my old party stands for and I am flabbergasted . 

So you are right non of us is going to change the others perspective . 

The only thing that will change us what we see and precieve in life .

the scary thing is that so much information is distorted that we need to relay on our commen since and the pit of our stomachs. We need to use old school logic to try to nevagate the forces to distroy us from within .

Tony 

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36 minutes ago, ArkLa 1086 said:

No insults to you, I asked how many crossed the Berlin wall and the DMV since you said walls don't work and in comparison I stated Federal statistics of 8-12 million illegal aliens as a  comparison. So one would have to assume walls do work, if you disagree I think Israel proves you wrong. Also, requiring an immigrant to follow policy and law doesn't make me or any other citizen a bad guy. It's  the law, I don't like filing income taxes but it's the LAW. That's something the illegal border crossers don't care about. About bettering themselves I don't care, they are not an American citizens, why don't you have the same outlook for citizens. I was told charity starts at home. I'm sure you pay your light bill before you worry about your neighbors light bill, right? If you do you must be a bad guy with your logic. If you feel that strongly how many are you willing to take into your home? Also quit saying "we" unless you have a mouse in your pocket because only you and atilla are pro-illegal immigration. And yes you and Tilla are LIBERALS, not a shooting offense but to each their own. Also once again Israel proves your theory about walls don't work is false. The Berlin wall worked, the DMZ works/worked. We have 8-12 million crossed our borders and how many crossed both of those combined? Less than 5000. Sounds pretty successful over 50 years. So successful that if we had that low number here politicians wouldn't even know about illegal immigration. Your outlook is just full of CAN'T, same as Tilla's. That's the reason I ask how many illegals are the both of you willing to bring into your own home since y'all don't want to be the bad guy, they only want to better themselves right? I want to better myself too, so just mail me a check.  And you don't want to be the bad guy by expecting someone to follow the law. Right? Since the immigration law doesn't matter to you what other laws don't/shouldn't matter? It doesn't make me or anyone else a bad guy to expect others to be held to the same standards I am held to, following the law. After all I'm sure I could better my life if I came to your house and stole all your stuff and sold it, what would be wrong with that using your logic? I'm just trying to pay my bills off and give my family a better life, your on board with that right? You don't want to be a bad guy after all, do you? 

 

The Iron curtain and the Berlin wall with a double wall, mine field, dogs and guard towers with interlocking fields of fire plus guards with orders to shoot to kill plus a system that rewarded a guard for killing a crosser still were not 100% effective. We are talking about a wall that the sole deterrent is the wall itself. A single wall. No mines. No dogs. Not guard towers with interlocking fields of fire. And no armed guards with orders to shoot to kill with a reward system for shooting to kill. You sir are comparing apple with oranges. A wall is an obstacle to be overcome. What the DMZ in Korea is and what the Berlin Wall/Iron Curtain was a defensive containment system that has to be defeated.

The wall in of itself will do nothing. They will fly and or climb over the top, tunnel under it, go around the ends or cut holes through it. What's going to stop them? You tell me, without violating anyone's rights just how an unguarded wall is going to stop anyone determined to get through.

 

Rick

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34 minutes ago, ArkLa 1086 said:

I understand your outlook Mader but I believe as long as we have homeless/jobless/struggling citizens we shouldn't be so preoccupied with the rest of the world's down trodden. I'm not heartless, I just believe we should take care of our own first before worrying about others. Just as I'm sure you pay your bills before worrying about anyone's elses. Doesn't make you a heartless SOB, just makes you responsible citizen. After all I'm sure the vast majority of South America, Asia, Russia and Eastern Europe would like our standard of living but if they were all here the citizens standard of living would go down. Just like your and my standard of living would go down if we had 6 houseguest to worry about. But first and foremost they are not American citizens, we are not responsible for their well being. We have a legal immigration route already. They should follow it like we the citizens have to follow the law.

I for the most part agree.

But most of the homeless chose to be that way. Most suffer from mental health issues. Your wall does nothing to address that. Many of the jobless are that way because they chose that path. Some have made themselves unemployable through criminal activity and or substance abuse. The wall is going to be of no help to them. So that leaves the lazy who don't care to work and those who have no opportunity in their area. Of the lazy not much you can do. The ones who don't see a way out? Well this is America. You really can't tell someone where to live. So just are you proposing to bring jobs to them? Are we going to let the homeless, those with criminal records or substance abuse problems and the lazy starve to death in the streets? In the mean time we still have work to be done that most people will refuse to do because they were told they were too good to do that type of work. What are we going to go to forced labor? Gulags? You tell me.

Rick 

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On 8/22/2018 at 8:46 PM, iowaboy1965 said:

Perhaps a wall isnt the answer but it is high time we take all our borders and border security much more seriously. Imo

What about security similar to what they have surrounding Area 51? As far as I know, no one has ever successfully snuck in to Area 51 have they? 

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For the people whining about Mr. Trump (yes his name is spelled correctly) what policy of his is it that you disagree with?  I agree he is arrogant and carries a large ego but as far as policy goes he has been pretty well spot on.  Most CEO's of large companies have a personality that I myself would not care to be around, but the Presidency is not a popularity contest its about who can run this country correctly.

Hillary is a horrible, evil person that would have corrupted this country beyond repair, I believe that Obama has corrupted and screwed up this country exponentially more that we may ever know, hopefully Trump will keep fighting these terrible people and save this country from the rat hole!  If him succeeding at the Presidency and thus growing his ego is the price to pay to straighten this deeply divided country out that is a small price I'm certainly willing to pay.

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15 minutes ago, Rick G. said:

What about security similar to what they have surrounding Area 51? As far as I know, no one has ever successfully snuck in to Area 51 have they? 

That area has been penetrated many times by people just walking past the signs. The way the actual facility is is guarded no one to my knowledge has penetrated the buildings but people have gotten onto the grounds. Signs and fence keeps no one out who wants in. An armed person does. That's what works at places like that. And again very small area, not 1900 plus miles, guarded by armed guards who can and will respond to any incursion. I've never heard of anyone actually being shot but the signs warn that they will shoot. What would be telling would be to know what was the status of those who have crossed that boundary. 

Look even if we went to the guard tower concept. It would take about 360 towers to actually cover the border minimum. That's 720 guards per shift. So 2160 full time guards and 2160 part timers to cover weekends and holidays. Plus roads to gain access to each tower, electric lines, heating and air conditioning (yea the desert can get pretty cold at night). Then people to maintain those towers and you still have to get the guards permission to shoot. OH lets not forget every 5 miles of so a reaction force of 20 or so men in case someone attacks a tower. So another 1500 or so people. Now add in all the infrastructure on areas with no housing for these people to live in. Just isn't sustainable.

Hadrian's Wall, although heavily guarded failed and eventually was abandoned. And the guards there were noted for brutality. The great wall of China was not designed or built with the intention of stopping individuals. It was supposed to keep invading armies from maneuvering as an army. But it did not stop individuals.

Plus no one has explained how you are going to stop people from taking a boat ride or tunneling. All that wall is going to do is reduce long walks through the desert thereby saving lives.

Guys I want the illegals out. I have no problem is they are here legally. But I want a WORKABLE plan. A wall is not a workable plan IMO. And people have been talking about a wall long before our current president. So I'm not attacking his idea.

Rick

 

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8 minutes ago, superih said:

For the people whining about Mr. Trump (yes his name is spelled correctly) what policy of his is it that you disagree with?  I agree he is arrogant and carries a large ego but as far as policy goes he has been pretty well spot on.  Most CEO's of large companies have a personality that I myself would not care to be around, but the Presidency is not a popularity contest its about who can run this country correctly.

Hillary is a horrible, evil person that would have corrupted this country beyond repair, I believe that Obama has corrupted and screwed up this country exponentially more that we may ever know, hopefully Trump will keep fighting these terrible people and save this country from the rat hole!  If him succeeding at the Presidency and thus growing his ego is the price to pay to straighten this deeply divided country out that is a small price I'm certainly willing to pay.

What's even worse is people (and there are some here) who think you have to completely agree with the sitting president's plan or idea or else you are on the other side.

For those who wish to think I'm on the other side. Aside from Carter (I was young and dumb) I have never voted for a liberal for president. I did vote for Trump, not so much because I thought he is great. I voted against that vile woman. I think Trump has the potential to be very good.  But I think this wall thing is nothing more than a distraction to more important things.

Want to build that wall? Gotta figure out how to pay for it? Easy. Cut off all foreign aid. Stop all payments to the UN. Start by honestly reporting how much is spent on welfare. We do those things we can get a handle on our spending.

Rick

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7 hours ago, oldtanker said:

That area has been penetrated many times by people just walking past the signs. The way the actual facility is is guarded no one to my knowledge has penetrated the buildings but people have gotten onto the grounds. Signs and fence keeps no one out who wants in. An armed person does. That's what works at places like that. And again very small area, not 1900 plus miles, guarded by armed guards who can and will respond to any incursion. I've never heard of anyone actually being shot but the signs warn that they will shoot. What would be telling would be to know what was the status of those who have crossed that boundary. 

Look even if we went to the guard tower concept. It would take about 360 towers to actually cover the border minimum. That's 720 guards per shift. So 2160 full time guards and 2160 part timers to cover weekends and holidays. Plus roads to gain access to each tower, electric lines, heating and air conditioning (yea the desert can get pretty cold at night). Then people to maintain those towers and you still have to get the guards permission to shoot. OH lets not forget every 5 miles of so a reaction force of 20 or so men in case someone attacks a tower. So another 1500 or so people. Now add in all the infrastructure on areas with no housing for these people to live in. Just isn't sustainable.

Hadrian's Wall, although heavily guarded failed and eventually was abandoned. And the guards there were noted for brutality. The great wall of China was not designed or built with the intention of stopping individuals. It was supposed to keep invading armies from maneuvering as an army. But it did not stop individuals.

Plus no one has explained how you are going to stop people from taking a boat ride or tunneling. All that wall is going to do is reduce long walks through the desert thereby saving lives.

Guys I want the illegals out. I have no problem is they are here legally. But I want a WORKABLE plan. A wall is not a workable plan IMO. And people have been talking about a wall long before our current president. So I'm not attacking his idea.

Rick

 

I think a crack down on sanctuarie citys/states wil be a start, the responsible people who decleare a city or state sanctuarie for illegals should be removed from office and should be persecuted for obstructing law enforcement.

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On 8/25/2018 at 11:31 PM, oldtanker said:

The Iron curtain and the Berlin wall with a double wall, mine field, dogs and guard towers with interlocking fields of fire plus guards with orders to shoot to kill plus a system that rewarded a guard for killing a crosser still were not 100% effective. We are talking about a wall that the sole deterrent is the wall itself. A single wall. No mines. No dogs. Not guard towers with interlocking fields of fire. And no armed guards with orders to shoot to kill with a reward system for shooting to kill. You sir are comparing apple with oranges. A wall is an obstacle to be overcome. What the DMZ in Korea is and what the Berlin Wall/Iron Curtain was a defensive containment system that has to be defeated.

The wall in of itself will do nothing. They will fly and or climb over the top, tunnel under it, go around the ends or cut holes through it. What's going to stop them? You tell me, without violating anyone's rights just how an unguarded wall is going to stop anyone determined to get through.

 

Rick

Once again full of CAN'T and WON'T. Also "without violating anyone's rights"? Here is the fundamental difference between our outlooks. THEY HAVE NO RIGHTS. THEY ARE NOT CITIZENS. 

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On 8/25/2018 at 11:41 PM, oldtanker said:

I for the most part agree.

But most of the homeless chose to be that way. Most suffer from mental health issues. Your wall does nothing to address that. Many of the jobless are that way because they chose that path. Some have made themselves unemployable through criminal activity and or substance abuse. The wall is going to be of no help to them. So that leaves the lazy who don't care to work and those who have no opportunity in their area. Of the lazy not much you can do. The ones who don't see a way out? Well this is America. You really can't tell someone where to live. So just are you proposing to bring jobs to them? Are we going to let the homeless, those with criminal records or substance abuse problems and the lazy starve to death in the streets? In the mean time we still have work to be done that most people will refuse to do because they were told they were too good to do that type of work. What are we going to go to forced labor? Gulags? You tell me.

Rick 

I don't even know where you went off the rails in that post. The wall is for illegal immigrants only. We shouldn't worry about illegal immigrants wanting better lives, only the legal immigrants. I stated until we dealt with those problems faced by our own citizens we shouldn't worry about illegal aliens quality of life. If a person chooses to live on the streets fine his choice. If not, we help. Laziness is also a choice. Don't see how you figured gulags in this situation either but I also don't see how you try to come across like such an authority on so many subjects either. You sound like a Wikipedia Warrior with your "facts". Like "walls don't work", but I'm sure you have four of them around you every night, which is a bit ironic. You offer no solutions only can't and won't and I'm not gonna argue with you anymore, I'm just gonna let you be wrong.

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I dont for a minute think Rick is a liberal and i take his stance to refer to the will or cooperation of the public at large. I can see his line of thinking. Unfortunately he is most likely right in that we could not get a consensus of the public....or maybe just our leaders to take the steps needed to put these things in place and keep them there. Imo thats really the only point he is making. Our leader ship and or the public wont support some or maybe any of the things you and i would like to see happen in regaurds to controling our borders..... i agree tho we need to start pushing more for at least something tangible that would discourage illegals from comming. And for heaves sake everyone vote at election time and do your best to vote out the bad and in something better...write or call your representatives if your willing and let them know how you feel. Only way things change, be it ever so slowly, is outcry from we the people..... i would love to see a public vote on some of these measure or even just should we be more strict with all our borders. Rick and our leaders may be suprised at the outcome? Or maybe not.

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1 hour ago, ArkLa 1086 said:

I don't even know where you went off the rails in that post. The wall is for illegal immigrants only. We shouldn't worry about illegal immigrants wanting better lives, only the legal immigrants. I stated until we dealt with those problems faced by our own citizens we shouldn't worry about illegal aliens quality of life. If a person chooses to live on the streets fine his choice. If not, we help. Laziness is also a choice. Don't see how you figured gulags in this situation either but I also don't see how you try to come across like such an authority on so many subjects either. You sound like a Wikipedia Warrior with your "facts". Like "walls don't work", but I'm sure you have four of them around you every night, which is a bit ironic. You offer no solutions only can't and won't and I'm not gonna argue with you anymore, I'm just gonna let you be wrong.

Someone had mentioned that if we got rid of the illegals that the poor and homeless could do the jobs that the illegals take. I was responding to that.

 

1 hour ago, ArkLa 1086 said:

Once again full of CAN'T and WON'T. Also "without violating anyone's rights"? Here is the fundamental difference between our outlooks. THEY HAVE NO RIGHTS. THEY ARE NOT CITIZENS. 

 

I did not say a thing about anyone's rights. I said we are not about to use deadly force on someone trying to cross the border for merely trying to better their lives. I didn't say weather I agree with that or not. Just that we, the US, will not do that. In fact often we have impose sanctions and cried like babies at the UN when another country has done the same thing. So just write that idea off. Not gonna happen.  

Heck they shifted responsibility of guarding the nuke weapons site in Germany. When the unit I was in finally got task with that my on 2nd tour (mid 80s') we had all the goodies.  Ground surveillance radar, motion detectors, armed guards with ammo and set rules of engagement. You would not believe how many times we activated the reaction force for rabbits and deer. Plus, during a bad time with terror threats over there, what you had to do before you used deadly force.....and this was guarding nukes. Unlike our East German and Russian counterparts on the border we just couldn't open fire. 

The way I see it the wall will slow them down for maybe 2 months. That's it. After that they will have figured out how to beat the wall. They figured out how to beat the DEA and get drugs in. DEA hasn't even slowed em down more than a couple of weeks.

What makes you think this wall will work. If i thought this wall would be effective I'd be supporting it 100%. I've stated why I think it will fail. No one has told me why it will or how to make it work.

Heck to even begin to make it work you'd have to get the Mexican government on board with them running patrols on their side to keep people away. Hows that going to work when the Mexican government is telling their poor and the criminal element how much better their lives would be in the US?

 

Rick

 

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3 minutes ago, iowaboy1965 said:

I dont for a minute think Rick is a liberal and i take his stance to refer to the will or cooperation of the public at large. I can see his line of thinking. Unfortunately he is most likely right in that we could not get a consensus of the public....or maybe just our leaders to take the steps needed to put these things in place and keep them there. Imo thats really the only point he is making. Our leader ship and or the public wont support some or maybe any of the things you and i would like to see happen in regaurds to controling our borders..... i agree tho we need to start pushing more for at least something tangible that would discourage illegals from comming. And for heaves sake everyone vote at election time and do your best to vote out the bad and in something better...write or call your representatives if your willing and let them know how you feel. Only way things change, be it ever so slowly, is outcry from we the people..... i would love to see a public vote on some of these measure or even just should we be more strict with all our borders. Rick and our leaders may be suprised at the outcome? Or maybe not.

I wouldn't be surprised. What would surprise me would be if the politicians would actually listen to the people and forget about the special interest.

Rick

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