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gwoswald

Farmall M water in oil

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I have an M that was acquired last fall. The tractor was reportedly rebuilt (with fire craters) and then the timing wasn't quite ironed out and the previous owner observed a small amount of coolant in the oil. Decided to move it on. 

Fast forward to this weekend, finally had a chance to get it moved into the work shop. I've run it for about 5 minutes total since I bought it, on/off trailer, in and out if two buildings. Zero smoke on start up or while running, however, it does have a pretty good stumble.

Drained the oil, serious antifreeze in coolant. Total milkshake with a good cup to a pint on cracking the drain plug.

I dropped the oil pan and put about 5# air pressure on the radiator, but was not able to ID any leak locations or seepage around the sleeves.

I figured next step will be pulling the head and see what it looks like? Anyone have any other thoughts for what to check?

IMAG1399.jpg

IMAG1401.jpg

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Gosh ! Feel sorry for ya , want a nice M ,have this happen? 

I don't know M's , does it have a water pump? There different head gaskets for Famall C's water pump and siphon (without water pump.)

i would get a quality torque wrench and check the torque on the head starting in the middle and moving out . Making sure they are to spec. 

I think the Mahle may require re-torque . Ckecking for coolent sipping out where the head meets the Headgasket and the blocks .

sorry I don't know what torque M's head bolts are or the sequence for thightening .

I think there a dye you can put in and pressure it Also never done . 

Imo the guy you got it from knew it that is why he lost interest . That's what I think  sorry just my thoughts 

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Dry sleeves in it. Probably froze and cracked block unless head gasket leaking.

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More so cracked block with sleeve puller blank. There is a washer that needs to be on middle head stud the thru pipe can rust also

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Just for kicks, I would change oil filter, refill with new oil, drain coolant and refill with water only, add a jars of Bar's Leaks, and go work the snot out of it for a hour. Let it cool and see what you got.

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If it's an earlier M there are freeze plugs behind the front and rear covers. My 43' had one rust out and leak into the pan. I pulled the pan and pressure tested it, it took a while before it leaked down through.

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Drop the pan refill with used antifreeze preferably a good green color get a pressure test pump and leave 15 lbs pressure on it overnight you'll see where its coming from then hate to scare you but the one I had the block was cracked behind one of the dry sleeves

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Thanks, lots of good insight and a few things to looks at.

I bought it for under a grand knowing that it was going to need some engine work and assuming a new block could be in the future. 

I think I'll start by repressurising after letting the crank case drip out for a day and try and look again.

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A potentially encouraging update:

Went out and looked in the block and was able to see coolant on the big end of the cylinder 3 rod. Looked up and saw coolant in the #3 cylinder coming from the piston skirt. Rotated the engine by hand and was able to confirm the leak looks to be coming down the cylinder bore inside the sleeve. 

So to me, this says there is potential this is head related, either gasket or a cracked head at cylinder 3. So next step seems to be pull off the head and see if the head is cracked or if it looks like a bad gasket. 

Anything I'm missing?

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Photo showing the leak area. You can see the coolant on the con rod and if you look upon the sleeve, you can see the droplets coming down from the piston skirtIMAG1409.thumb.jpg.2d429f3c5f5b14f8ae37c08704b2d565.jpg

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probably cracked head. mine had the same type of leak,only it was #4 cylinder. machine shop found the crack that I could not see visually. had it welded and has been good ever sense. good luck.

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That's a wide front m ? 

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3 hours ago, 560Dennis said:

That's a wide front m ? 

Yep. Schwartz wide front. It still has the small gas tank in place, Lines and all, which I though was neat.

Roller drawbar and a canopy at the moment. Also came with a good condition paper fiber belt pulley I'll probably put on for looks after its back to running. Here's another shot of it. Need a good wash.IMAG1398.thumb.jpg.ea4109c51f3bb02bdbf1f087ef89d588.jpg

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Nothing to lose before you pull it down.

I have had better luck with "sodium silicate" than with Bar's Leak as a stop leak.

Sodium Silicate must be used with WATER ONLY-------no antifreeze.  Run awhile then drain and you can then add antifreeze.

It 's original use was as a concrete sealer-------what I have used was made by Humko Products.  It's good enough that the NASCAR boys use it.  Most parts stores stock it.  Haven't bought any in several years.

I stopped a sand hole in the cylinder wall of a 3208 CAT (sleeveless) diesel with it once.  (I pulled the injector so to relieve compression while running with the Sodium Silicate in the system).

Worked fine for a couple of years of hard work until I decided to ring the engine-------the honing process removed the Sodium Silicate.

Doesn't cost much------I would take a shot at it.

edit:  I talked with Mr. Humble (Humko Products) years ago.  He was marketing it as a concrete sealer and had a Farmall M on his farm that was leaking------he tried the sodium silicate as an experiment and it worked.  Use as an engine stop leak spread from there.  What I bought had no mention of use as an engine stop leak on the label-------came in a quart size jar.

Good luck---

 

DD

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The head on my W9 leaked after I had it welded. The welding shop said it was in such bad shape they would make no guaranty  that the welds would hold. They were right. I used KW Block Sealer (sodium silicate) in it and it has been holding for 30+ years now. It hasn't done any real work for the last 20 though.

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Glad to know that K-W block sealer is also sodium silicate Owen.

Sodium Silicate is also known as "liquid glass".

 

DD

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Quick update, after a few days there was some leak down in cyl 4, and I though I might have seen something in 2 also, but tough to say. 

I also realized that there is discoloration on both sides of the head gasket joint on the newish paint. That makes me wonder if there isn't potentially a warp issue, or perhaps when the engine was rebuilt there was excessive sleeve protrusion. 

I have the head all unbolted, just need to grab the lift and pull it off. 

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Longest project ever.....so I got this head unbolted last summer, tried to lift it off, and she's stuck tight. Slight gap on one side, but the manifold side was tight down. So I pretty much left it for the winter. 

Finally got out and started playing with it again.

I filled the cylinders with twine and hand cranked the motor and was able to make a gap between the head and the block. I now have probably a 1/32" of daylight between the block and head.

Now, however, the head is not wanting to come off. I lifted the front end off the concrete trying to pull it. I had a nice even lift on it. I tapped it from all directions with a rubber mallet, lifted one side, then the other, etc.

Any thoughts on getting the head off? Seems like a few of the studs are tight to one side of the hole or the other. Should I try and remove them? I don't really want to booger them up or crack them off....

 

Thanks! Greg.

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Let's see a pic of the head from a few angles showing the top. 

 

Definitely be checking to see if the bearings are damaged by the antifreeze in the oil

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My guess is a cra led head, pretty common on those old girls. Take the head to an automotive machine e shop & have it magna-fluxed, that will show any cracks.. Guy I take mine to says he's never seen an M / SM head that didn't have at least two cracks. While you have it if have him true the head surface while he has the head. Other possibility is bad head gasket. That should be evident when you pull the head. 

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Here is what we have so far. The head is lifted off the block, but darned if I can wiggle it off.

IMAG1977.jpg

IMAG1982.jpg

IMAG1979.jpg

IMAG1980.jpg

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Did you remove the bolts from the thermostat housing  and there is a line at the back that gets missed sometimes.

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Yep, got both of those areas. Tube on back, thermostat on front. Best as I can tell, I got all head nuts off and all ancillary stuff is clear. 

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Cherry picker or a chain hoist is the easiest way to get the head off. Needs to come up straight as possible

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