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Duey_C

Type A fuel system with UD-16 care and feeding notions.

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I have UD-16 #11,318 (November-Chrysler in my head, 1953 block by the Y castings) on a Galion 118 motor grader.

This motor grader walked across North Dakota for the Highway Dept as unit #1 and as unit #1063 somewhere before coming to Minnesota. I believe the engine had been replaced at some time from the colors of paint and cut up rad shroud.

Is this an obsolete topic? I think not at all. :-)

If any notion here is not correct. Please help correct me! :-) 

These machines will be running a hundred years from now if they can get gas, Diesel fuel and oil.

 

I imagined there are a few places on these injection systems that still might get missed. 

I know spit about the injectors and pre cups. So far. That’ll come. :-)

I need to know more. Much more. :-)

OR this is for folks like me that don’t have all the info stuck in our heads but have enough to make us almost dangerous with a UD engine. Vroom Vroom! :-)

If some of these tricks are on here already? Sorry to repeat some, I googled the tar out of these topics and studied for weeks here and I’m still studying... 

Perhaps I try to gather some info together?

A monstrous THANK YOU! for all of the info (2005 - late 2017) provided right here!!! :-)

I didn’t even begin to imagine the scope of the information here until after I asked a question over on “the stak” and thru MORE searching found you guys.

This all started with a sticky rear plunger. The pump warned me twice over the last couple years but I didn’t pay heed (catch on) until it stopped altogether.

https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178401

“Use clean fuel - keep it clean" from the IH gas caps. :-)

I also didn’t think some of these screens/places would be so terribly dirty.

Thank goodness for stainless screens! If IH had used plain steel, most of my screens would be long gone.

More to come.

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Scavenger valve:

The “screen gasket” behind the grooved tappet and the tappet guide in the scavenger valve’s bore... That little bugger needs to be looked at kinda sideways to see if it’s clean! It wasn’t but some soaking in a purple cleaner, a toothbrush, some compressed air and it was again.

Never got a pic of that.

The pics are gone from MB Cat (John) (rip sir) in 2005 of his scavenger valve puller.

I was in a quandary for a few days, wondering what to do with the 1/8-27 pipe coupler I dug out of the desk drawer to pull the scavenger valve.

The 1/8“ pipe coupler screwed onto the valve with a Vise Grip clamped on and using a screwdriver or two to pry did NOT work. The jaws merely slid on the pipe coupler! It was stuck hard but the tappet and guide came out pretty nicely after. Well to be honest, those slippery little buggers toyed with me for at least a half hour before they were ready to slide out for cleaning.

An 1/8 pipe coupler is 27 thread and a 3/8 NF bolt is 24 thread.

Hmmm, will a fine thread 3/8 bolt screw into the coupler? Yep. Quite nicely in fact. The bolt I used is about 3“.

Run up (screw on) a hex or jam nut, drop a flat washer on the bolt and screw on the pipe coupler. Hint: Snug it up. I went to “the stash” and found a couple aluminum spacers and a water pump’s packing spacer to help space it out and voila! The scavenger was out. 

I would’ve rather used a piece of tube cut to length but didn’t have any in my stash that was the right size.

I have to go looking for a square(?) o-ring under the valve cap for the scavenger valve assy but it works just fine without it for right now.

I’ve yet to find out if the threads on the scavenger valve is actually 1/8 pipe thread or straight 3/8 fine.

 

Scavenger strainer:

IF you can get the cover off the bottom of your injection pump, remove it and service the “scavenging valve strainer”. It’s also a great time to clean the crud out of the bottom of the sump if you’ve never done it before.

The UD-16 owners manual says nothing about this strainer but the pump manual does in section 8. :-/ ;-)

Yep, just like the book says; a 10-32 screw goes right in but only a couple turns on this one here.  

Bloop! This one popped right out after lightly prying with a sideways screwdriver under the head of the #10-32 screw and it stayed up and in with a small push of the finger after. Bloop.

This one was easy to clean, perhaps because the solder holding it in shape is long gone (?) as it’s easy to lightly (lightly!!!) twist it to help dislodge the gunk.

Holy cow! It was plugged full out to the smaller diameter end! I didn’t get a pic of that mess. No wonder the sump filled with spilled fuel. I’ll find out soon if the shaft seals are still holding and have an undiluted pump sump again.

I wondered about this pump (NOT all 6 cylinder engines have the cast “bottom cover”, I find) as the block’s cast in boss for the pump’s (hold-up helper) “bottom cover” might be in the way for the two inner bolts on the inside row for this pump’s cast bottom with matching (hold-up helper) boss. I used an old Craftsman wrench and a Proto Challenger to break those two bolts loose as the box ends are “clocked” differently. A bear just the same.

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The "scavenging valve strainer"

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Obviously, I ain’t gonna take the pump off if I don’t need to.

 

Pump:

If someone sees this post, what is my pump set at/for?

Pump number is 253602  R92.

The 02 after the 2536 is hand stamped as is the little 2 behind the R9. Those are your queues, yes?

Serial is 5796

 

Just for fun, remove the “pump housing side cover” on the pump and see that all is well in there. See how rusty the “torque springs" are.

The “bumper spring” on the “torque control” arm had fallen off and lay there with the “pick-up or limiting screw” and nut. Clean the crud out. I still need to study the pump manual to see if the limiting screw is set correctly or no.

I have the outside throttle control but it was a peach to remove and reinstall so I could remove the side cover.

Mark the shaft and lever if you want to put the throttle lever on exactly the same way as before.

:-)

The inner workings of the pump is already well documented here. :-)

 

A screen and a check:

The “primary pump” (intake) “strainer/filter screen” and the “scavenging check valve”.

The primary pump’s (intake) screen was plugged and yuck. Better now.

I’m not happy with the (return to tank) “scavenging check valve”.

It wasn’t really dirty but doesn’t seal worth a hoot. I cleaned the seat with a small wad of worn out 320 grit paper, a pencil with an eraser and tried to clean the hard plastic valve seat but... It still leaks. I don’t recall IF this a big deal or no.

It takes good pressure to open the check!

Any thoughts/notions abut sealing the check or let it be?

The intake screen for the primary pump. This was bad.

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This looks better. I'm learning!

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The check:

 

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Care and feeding:

Side note about oil filters: After I bought the grader at my past work 25 years ago, I changed the oil and I found the filters weren’t correct. The filters in the canisters were for the oldest UD-16 engines. The dopes in the maintenance shop didn’t catch this so the whole time they had it, it basically had no oil filters. I won’t even get into cylinder #5 and the neglect it received while not firing. Ugh.

No wonder the main shaft rattles like crazy for a second or two after startup.

Any notions on how to prime the oil system before startup on a loose crankshaft and bearings? Hmmm, perhaps I could try cranking it for some seconds before touching the choke or even turning on the gas at the sediment bulb? ??

 

There’s a serial number break after #5 to #5404 (and up) engines so if the oil filter canisters are correct for your engine, note your serial and get the correct filters. :-) Engine serial (actual) is just above the injection pump on the block.

The choke:

Like some have noted here, Ya don’t need much choke and it’s running!

Vroom!

That little flapper throttle works great and was a good idea! It starts out wide open and as soon as the engine gets up to speed it flops over and settles the engine down. Sorta like an old Briggs and Stratton air type governor.

Adjust it if need be as you like it.

I need to look at that subject again since some folks believe it’s a single speed carb. That little carb governor throttle works great! Even at below zero if ya need it while running on gasoline for warm up. :-) It’s easy to adjust with some trial and error but I don’t remember how to right now. It’s in one of the books. 

I’ll work on that.

 

Auxillary fuel filter strainer “water separator screen" coming tomorrow hopefully.

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Like the book says, note the auxiliary filter and water trap is gravity fed (engine OFF) and the final fuel filter is primary pump fed (running).

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Good info ,, Thanks for posting

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Thanks Kevin. I appreciate it. :-)

"Auxillary fuel filter strainer “water separator screen" coming tomorrow hopefully."

What the he!! was I thinking? I meant the oil and fuel filters.

How on earth would I ever find an "auxiliary water separator screen"? This is in the bottom of the auxiliary filter housing under the filter.

Now I know what I was thinking. Cleaning and care of the  "water separator screen" and hoped to clean it.

I'm anxious to see it again to see how dirty/rusty it is so I can clean it up.

The filters needed to be ordered from the factory thru my local parts supplier. Wha? Things have changed but they were in the computer.

They'll be here in a couple days. A new hose is in the works to supply the plungers from the final filter.. JIC #6 female swivel hose ends are hopefully correct for this engine.

The book shows a steel pipe. Wish I had one in my back pocket. :-)

 

Oh! Here's my version of the scavenger valve puller.

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Here's another fine mess you've gotten us into. Think Stan Laurel and Oliver Hardy.

Things you've already seen before but if you haven't? Here's a possible sample. Service the fuel system regularly. I learn from what I do or don't do.

What a mess I've helped allow. The bits above I've never touched before but what I did today, I've had a hand in before.

I have to admit I like to see pics of machinery. I'm also learning this site as I go.

Note the missing copper gasket on the auxiliary filter cover?

 

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I'll get the hang of this yet.

More to come. More than you want to see.

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Look at the slime around the tube and on the bottom of the filter above.

The "water separator screen" wasn't real bad.

I needed the wire to help extract the screen but it cleaned up real nice. no assemblies were harmed during this adventure...

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The "water separator screen" cleaned up nice. Cleaned the spring and wriggled it back into the tabs.

The second pic  is inside the auxiliary filter. Lotsa mud and that darned slime from the filter seals.

Third pic is inside the final filter. Way nicer as should be but still the slime on the outlet tube.

The old filters seem as thought they'd rather come apart than come out in one piece.

That snap ring was in the top of the final filter, did I miss it it last time I serviced?

See anything unusual?

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I needed a new hose to supply the injection pump so I had one made at the store. The old one leaked and was getting worse with new leaks.

Yeah, prob'ly 6-6 female swivel JIC  fittings I thought. Oh contrare!

I'll stop back at the store and have them cut the fittings off the new hose. Not gonna hack saw or cut-off-tool 'em.

The elusive #7 on the swivel? 5/8 straight threads. My luck it's standard 45 flare. Prob'y not available anyhow.

What to do about the hose ends...

Look again Duane.

Aeroquip replaceable hose ends! Yippee! Got 'em off the old hose and cleaned up for an oily install tomorrow.

These don't have a nut on the shank(?)/screw in shaft so ya have to install a mating male fitting and wrench the mate to screw them together.

I've crimped thousands of pipe thread hyd hoses together over the years but this is new and fun to me.

I THINK they're really old.

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You got that right Rawleigh. Very lucky!

I'll install the "new" hose on the engine tomorrow, drain the rest of the old fuel that this IH engine runs so nice on, put in five or ten gallons of fresh fuel and hope the plungers will do their bit and RUN this poor ol' thing.. .

Well, then go beat it up a bit. He's a cool customer so I have to watch the temp gauge.

I'd like to take him out and see if I can muck-up the road grading job I did already.

Diesel fuel that "grows algae" in tight quarters needs to heat wet wood and fires in the ring...

Learning by doing.

Install of the Aeroquip fittings was  a breeze. They're nice.P1010143.JPG.1d1b28a3bdc6d02578e1dfc316ef147f.JPG

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Aw cripes. I had long since forgotten the gas carb's idle screw is right there looking at us.

Just unlock the screw and turn it up or down to suit you and the temperature outdoors. Just like a regular carburetor, in to speed it up and out to slow it down.

The plug below is for the screw, spring and flat that decides at what speed after it starts, the throttle "butterfly" will flip over/down to your preset speed.

I slowed mine down today and that big 502 (501.8) sounds so dang sweet. Wow.

Both plungers were stuck again so I was patient and waited for them. 10-15 minutes later and they were both pumping.

Hey! Things to consider. I "back blew" the outlet from the tank a few days ago. It was half plugged (darn slow gravity flow before).

That cemented the notion that the tank has a layer of "mud" in the bottom today. I pulled the plug on the bottom of the tank to drain and holy moley,

I had to stick my finger in the 1" pipe plug hole to open it up all the way. I'll be like other guys here, gotta pull this 50 gallon tank to get it cleaned out.

I also back blew the return line to make certain it wasn't part of the problem of Diesel in the pump sump today before start up.

65 years of neglect will make a big mess. Oh wait, you guys already know that.

Gosh I wish I had a couple more of these engines. True.

If I am missing ANY tips for these gas start engines, please post yours here too. :-)

Any thoughts on how to push out old grease to make room for new grease in the fan hub and the idler hub/generator mount?

Or do we need to take them apart?

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That's interesting that you have the F-6 magneto, I didn't think they made the 16s till after the switchover to distributor ignition. Why is there an ignition coil up by the carb? Are they using the mag as a distributor? If so where are they running the HV into?

Might put some lubricity additive in the fuel to help loosen up the plungers. And change the oil in the injection pump, but you probably have already done that.

They are cool engines!

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On 7/4/2018 at 3:21 AM, Duey_C said:

Install of the Aeroquip fittings was  a breeze. They're nice

Most all the old dumptrucks , Macks,  A-cars,  Whites, Brockways all utilized Aero style fittings, (Very convenient !!) I still have 3 drawers

full of fittings and the service tools ( Pops made ) along with a few rolls of hose ,   Was always nice to be able to fix a blown power steering line

without searching for an open Hydraulic store 😀

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n9: If a fella can love an engine, I love this one and want more. I could use an IH crawler around here some times. :-)  Maybe even a four cylinder. Ya, I like fours that run right.

It's fun to lose a mechanic's mind while explaining the starting system on these Diesel engines. John Q. Public is even easier to lose... Deer in the headlights... ;-)

The October of 50 owners manual (7B) I found doesn't even mention the distributor ignition! Funky since any of the newer books cover it.

If I popped the cover (hiding in the mire) out in the pic above, I could drop in a dizzy and that lonely bolt in the counter bore is likely a holding bolt for the distributor.

Good eyes on that. The coil that was in the magneto and the spare coil were both weak. I recharged the magnet hard, put in points and condenser....

Hmmm, or did I? I thought I did but IF I didn't replace the condenser , that would fully explain the crappy running on that mag. I may not have been fully up to speed on condensers yet.

I didn't have any money for a coil so I turned that mag into a 12 volt distributor. I have an F-6 12 Volt distributer!

One winter soon after conversion, it wouldn't start so I used a piece of wire to jump the resistor coil I put on and use it still.

That green 10 gauge wire that's on this side of the mag is actually the HV/high tension lead from the coil output to the distributor section of the mag.

The wire on the far side is obviously from the points to the coil. Yes, I drilled 2 holes in the magneto housing for the wires. :-)

Hehehe! Making do with what I knew and could figure out/conjure up. Gosh he starts and runs nice.

NO more than 1200 rpm's on gas! Found that in the book tonight. Whatever.

Side note: Oddity? Electric starting and generator with a magneto??? Well maybe but it is a bit of a cobble job even before I and my past work got it.

Lubricity additive you say? 10 gallons old fuel out and 10 gallons in yesterday and need either some ATF or a shot of Lucas in the fresh fuel.

Shoot, number 5 cylinder likes the old fuel better. That cylinder fires quicker on that rotten, dead fuel that is gummy/waxy,  grows algae and makes mess.

Oh wait. As designed; to run on poor fuel.

Kevin: You're a lucky man to have those goodies. And hose too? Yessss! :-) I learned something new today! Interesting! No wonder I figured the hose is old, it has yellow/red paint hiding under the gunk!

I beat the old hose on the T running board/walkway to shake some gunk off and I see paint on the old leaky hose... 65 year old hose? Perhaps.

Me? I miss the hose cutter at my past work the most. I drooled as the store guy cut my crimp-on fittings off the new hose and thought to myself, "What do you need those pins and that pesky lever for"? One of those disc type cutters. Gosh they work nice.

I really should set my self up. I'd get a kick out of making hoses for folks at an affordable rate, in about a minute, if I'm not taking a nap. Hehehe! :-)

I had watched the "truck shop" fellas install these types of fittings on hoses some time ago but what a treat to be able to work with the Aeroquips!.

Thanks guys. :-)

Gosh, I think there's a running, unrestored Brockway truck at our show. :-)

Didn't have the oomph to get the oil changed this afternoon/evening. Need starting gas anyhow...

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Oh, I guess the Galion has been 1063 all along... :-) We often want to know where the machine came from

I was trying to wash a decal off the fuel tank when this appeared under the last coat of paint. Very cool stencil!

The second pic shows a better view of what I found a couple years ago after washing285499910_IndianHead.JPG.297cb47be593b39aa6917ddd55875802.JPG.

The pressure washer was a big help for me today.

 

 

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Dug into the 3 magneto oil caps today. Cleaned the dirt out and but one did I find any hint of wick still in place.

The others were dirt all the way down. Yuck.

Oh! I opened the generator mount/idler pulley/shaft and water pump plugs and found the clean Mobil grease I put in many years ago. It still smelled like Mobil grease so I know I need to take them both  apart to be certain the bearings will have newer grease. Unless you guys have tips about making certain.

Hah, prob'ly suck as much grease out as possible then dump some Kerosene in, install the plugs and fire it up for 20 minutes or so.

Then suck the Kero out and do it again and again until clean and dry. Then put in fresh grease.  ??? Will the grease find its way?

I'll probably have to take them apart.

I had opened up a new, 35 year old N scale RivaRossi steam engine's gearbox this spring and found the old grease was SO hardened, it wouldn't let the little motor turn.

So I don't like old grease much right now.

:-)

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Duey:  You can try John Deere Corn Head grease.  It is an HG 0 grease that has the consistency of mayonnaise.  Once it is agitated by gears it turns to a heavy oil, and then thickens back up after it stops.  Very good for gear boxes with old seals.  Also, add a quart of 2 stroke oil to the fuel to lube things up.  New style ATF doesn't burn as well as the old ATF, and the 2 stroke oil is made to burn.  Marvel Mystery oil i also very good at unsticking internals of fuel pumps.

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Uh huh! On the Marvel Oil thought! It does work very good to loosen sticky  plungers.

Note to self. OLD fuel sticks them right back again. :-)

Hmmm. John Deere  corn head HG 0 grease. I like what you type about it Rawleigh! I sure don't mind some leakage, lets me know it's in the bearings.

Did you try that grease in the fan and idler housings on your TD 9 or is that a newer thought? Those housings are gear-less... :-)

The fan shaft bearings are just a trifle loose so I watch that. :-)

What in the Sam Hill did they do to ATF?

Hey, can I sneak a gallon of OLD fuel every now and then into the fresh fuel? Thoughts?

One major point I've learned and you guys helped in the teaching. If it runs, run it. I gotta get the oil changed so I can run it some more.

Heck, even my 2 daughters still like smelling that ol' sweet guy run. :-)

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Duey:  I use that grease in the rollers of my Cat D2 since the seals are old and leaky.  I also have it in a post hole digger gearbox.  Lots of guys are running it in bush hog gearboxes that have leaky seals.  If it can survive a bush hog gearbox it ought to do what you need!

 

You can use some old fuel mixed with the new.  Maybe run it through a clean rag as you pour it in the funnel.  The old stuff usually last pretty well compared to the new fuel.  I would add a lubricant with it for the plungers.  I have a fuel/oil blender Cummins used to make that I bought at a farm auction.  it filters and blends 5% used motor oil with the fuel (it has 2 big filters, one for just the oil and one for the blended product.)  Two stroke or Marvel is the way I would go.

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...well Duey_C......here is a picture you are going to delight in  :rolleyes:.......the simple conversion from magneto to distributor ......(coil not shown  in pic :wacko: )...this on the venerable TD18.....this down under in NZ.....The owner of this tractor and two others, was extremely    resourcefull   bloke......and his equipment  was very old.....very IH, and very interesting ...to say the least...even  TD18  engine on factory   Generator......

The crawler   tractor had actually  lost that first flush of youth......however...the owner assured me it would run......I didn't disbelieve  him, either, after seein g  some other relics  that started..............

 

Mike

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