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Crashcup

Tire Valve Stem on IH 444?

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So, probably a dumb question, but on my IH 444 tractor, do the rear tires have the type of valve stems that thread in, where you don't even have to unseat the tire from the rim to change them out?  Or does it have the type that fit in a through-hole, like a tubeless car tire? They're pretty crusty, it's hard to tell. Starting to get fluid leaking out, so I may have to look at doing valve stems in the near future.

THanks!

Keith

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All valve stems go from the inside out. 

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I believe that the valve stem definitely can be swapped, all but what I will call the base.. the core is what they remove to pump fluid in the tire in the first place. 

Rotate the tire to have the valve at 12 o'clock, jack off the ground and replace. Wear safety glasses in case it sprays some fluid. 

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Rear tractor tires take what is called a "Water Stem". Threads into a little brass fine threaded nipple vulcanized into the inner tube. Water stem holds the valve core and valve cap screws on top. Water stem has a Rim Nut thread down on it that holds the whole valve stem into the valve stem hole so it doesn't slide back inside of the tire.  Years ago rim nuts used to be metal, mostly brass,  today you will only find plastic.  You can also get a bolt in valve plug that can be used on a tubeless tire application, water stem threads into it, rim nut, valve core, valve cap.  

Pretty good chance you local farm & fleet store will have all these parts.  If the water stem is leaking where it threads into the nipple vulcanized into the inner tube,  You might be able to clean it up a little and use some kind of sealer to seal it up again.  If not,  have to replace the inner tube.

I've heard to get a tire service truck to visit your farm costs $100 or more,  plus whatever the repair costs.  Haul the tire to them and they will probably pump out the fluid, remove tire and tube, install new tube, which has new water stem, valve core, cap, and rim nut, pump fluid back in, and whole repair would be $100.

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we did away with fluid 20 years ago..tooo many problems.

tire rim combinations have gotten too big to take in (50 mile)or do our self

only one road service left (70 miles)  usually $225-75  and most times they just replace the tube  and or patch tire ,fluid adds $100 and they hate it

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We're fairly lucky local Mennonite shop here I think it's still only $50 for a service call and the top it off they got great prices on tires

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Thanks all for the info...

I cleaned up the area a bit with a wire brush to get a better look, found a hole roughly dime-sized that I could see the tube through. So I assume calcium chloride has done a number on the metal valve stem parts. Both rears are leaking fluid.  I'll have to think about what I want to do with that... wife keeps telling me she doesn't want to put more money into the 444. But I want to keep it going to get dirt work done around our place. Have done a lot of work with it already - cut in a drainage swale, tore out a hillside of sumac with the box blade teeth, built a new gravel driveway. Still need to move the dirt from excavating the driveway, re-grade the other side of the yard, and freshen up the old driveway by scraping out some old dirt and spreading class 5.

After the rest of the dirt work, this tractor goes up for sale. So I have to question what I really need to do to keep it going to finish the work. As long as the tubes will hold air, maybe I can live with the leaking fluid? Course if too much leaks out, I lose the ballast weight, which is nice to have when using the front end loader.

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Ouch!  To have a dime-sized hole rusted through the rim something has been leaking a long time! Like 20+ years.  Since most of these smaller utility tractors were loader tractors most had Calcium Chloride fluid in the rear tires.  High percentage of rims in salvage yards would be in similar shape.  Depending on the style of wheel your 444 has there are rims and wheels available new aftermarket.  Guys here have also welded in patches for rusted rims on their tractors.

The 66-1/2 year old rims on the '51 M out in my shop have never been exposed to Calcium Chloride,  Dad always kept it painted up pretty good,  it's been repainted at least 3 times, 4 I think,  and the frt and rr rims look brand new.  That's why I replaced the old Farmall installed inner tubes that had CaCl in them with new inner tubes and sand blasted and primed & painted the rims on my '54 Super H 5 years ago.  They have small pits around the valve stem holes but no other holes.

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7 minutes ago, DOCTOR EVIL said:

Ouch!  To have a dime-sized hole rusted through the rim something has been leaking a long time! Like 20+ years. 

Yeah, it wasn't leaking when I first got it 6 years ago. I can only guess that it had either valve stems or inner tubes and stems replaced relatively recently, and now the stems are rotted out again.  I'm finding replacement 12 x 28 rims at about $180.  Not a huge sum of money, but it seems like owning this tractor has been a steady drip, drip, drip of cash, and not sure where the end is. Replacing the rims looks like a big job, too!

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It wont resell very good with rusted out leaky rims and tubes. And if it has a flat that has to be aired up all the time you wont wanna use it. If you can afford it fix it right and be done with it. You will be happier with it and it will be easier to sell and worth more fixed than not fixed. My 2 cents

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10 hours ago, Crashcup said:

Yeah, it wasn't leaking when I first got it 6 years ago. I can only guess that it had either valve stems or inner tubes and stems replaced relatively recently, and now the stems are rotted out again.  I'm finding replacement 12 x 28 rims at about $180.  Not a huge sum of money, but it seems like owning this tractor has been a steady drip, drip, drip of cash, and not sure where the end is. Replacing the rims looks like a big job, too!

Agree with Iowaboy above that it's worth putting the money in as it is worth much less unfixed

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Bitty, Iowa, that makes sense. Sometimes hard to swallow, but I'm sure you're right.

One step at a time. I've had an ongoing problem with flooding that I need to fix. And at the moment no spark at any of the plugs. Tested the coil with the ignition on and by making a direct connection between the coil (-) terminal and ground and making and breaking that connection. No spark. BUT, the primary resistance measures out good at 3.1ohm (Pertronix flame thrower coil), and secondary at 10kohm which seems reasonable. So next going to bring the coil to the bench and test it a little more carefully to make sure I've got good connections.

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22 hours ago, Crashcup said:

it seems like owning this tractor has been a steady drip, drip, drip of cash, and not sure where the end is. Replacing the rims looks like a big job, too!

That's what owning a tractor, especially an old tractor, is by definition...

The tubes have probably been leaking for years, the fluid just migrating out into the cavity between the tube and the tire.

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9 minutes ago, Matt Kirsch said:

That's what owning a tractor, especially an old tractor, is by definition...

I have to admit I was naive... I had figured that with the hard work a tractor does on a farm, using one for our landscaping work in our yard would be light duty, and I didn't expect to be working on it so much. Now I'm learning. But hey, life wouldn't be very interesting if everything was easy, would it?

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We have a 444 with a loader. One of the rims has had a rust hole in it for awhile but I kept thinking if I can just get one more year out of it. This year I was mowing stalks about 8 miles from home and hit a ditch and the rim spit about a quarter of the way around. They always seem to want to give out when you're in the most inconvenient places 

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The Farmall C SC have replacement  valve stems . 

My response has frustrated efforts on the Super C rear tires leaks down and the age of the very good Goodyear 10.2-36 cracks the sidewall . 👎🏿👎🏿👎🏿I taken it in and they can't find the leak , two different tire people. The tire has leaked for 10 years. Or more . I blocked it up to try and save it. 

I put in a new stem and it last longer but still leaked down over the winter!  I'm not going replace it he tires since we are not pulling or ploughing with it. I put rubber er cement in the crack pump it up and go off to do what needs to be done with it. 

This spring I go into the machine shed and sure enough old faithful has leak down flat. ☹️ I had some black RTV with me , I unscrewed the valve stem and smeared a small amount around the oring and on the the treads of the stem screwed it into the tube and pumped it up .

So far that's been holding 👍🏿It have not tested the pressures to be sure 

you might try this to save these slow leakers . Good luck,that my imput 

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Just now, 560Dennis said:

The Farmall C SC have replacement  valve stems . 

My response has frustrated efforts on the Super C rear tires leaks down and the age of the very good Goodyear 10.2-36 cracks the sidewall . 👎🏿👎🏿👎🏿I taken it in and they can't find the leak , two different tire people. The tire has leaked for 10 years. Or more . I blocked it up to try and save it. 

I put in a new stem and it last longer but still leaked down over the winter!  I'm not going replace it he tires since we are not pulling or ploughing with it. I put rubber er cement in the crack pump it up and go off to do what needs to be done with it. 

This spring I go into the machine shed and sure enough old faithful has leak down flat. ☹️ I had some black RTV with me , I unscrewed the valve stem and smeared a small amount around the oring and on the the treads of the stem screwed it into the tube and pumped it up .

So far that's been holding 👍🏿I have tested the pressures to be sure 

you might try this to save these slow leakers . Good luck,that my imput 

Thanks Dennis.

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2 minutes ago, jflaw92 said:

We have a 444 with a loader. One of the rims has had a rust hole in it for awhile but I kept thinking if I can just get one more year out of it. This year I was mowing stalks about 8 miles from home and hit a ditch and the rim spit about a quarter of the way around. They always seem to want to give out when you're in the most inconvenient places 

What loader do you have on your 444?  I have a 2050 (or maybe rightly named 2050A), and it seems to be a big loader for this tractor. I've broken the right steering spindle twice - probably too much weight in the bucket. I'm curious what a typical loader is for the 444.

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New rims, are the way to go no doubt. But if youre on a tight budget, and need it work, an option: (guys don't pick on me, we all know we've seen it done before) is to remove the tire and inspect the rim. It may be able to be patched and welded up. Then you get a new tube. Or patch your tube. And put it back together.   Only cost would be pumping the flyid, which, if you have to pay a guy to do that.....it's not really feasible I suppose.  

Super tight budget:. Drain the fluid yourself, save it in a barrel, untill you can pay a guy to pump it back in.     

Those suggestions are going to go over well here I bet.....

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1 minute ago, Crashcup said:

Thanks Dennis.

Your welcome , I would like to help anyone I can to save there tires , these babies are outrageously priced 💸and if you get new ones and the tires leak it a waste of thousand or thousand of dollars . So frustrated I trashed a very good tire , obsolete tire, I ve tried very hard to find the problem and eliminating it.  

 

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Never paid more than $2 for a pump to pump fluid in and out of tires. First one was an old washing machine motor and pump that was sitting in a junk pile when Dad bought the farm 42 years ago. Second one is from a bigger washing machine and he paid $2 for it at an auction.

One of those cheap drill pumps works. Doesn't have to be anything fancy, and cheap is better because you don't know what the calcuim will do to the pump innards. It would suck to buy a $300 pump only to have it crust up and self-destruct after the first use.

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22 minutes ago, Crashcup said:

What loader do you have on your 444?  I have a 2050 (or maybe rightly named 2050A), and it seems to be a big loader for this tractor. I've broken the right steering spindle twice - probably too much weight in the bucket. I'm curious what a typical loader is for the 444.

It's a Freeman 3000 mounted loader. It's about right for the tractor. If I could ever find the right wheel weights for it, it would be a much better loader tractor but it does good for what it is.

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3 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

Never paid more than $2 for a pump to pump fluid in and out of tires. First one was an old washing machine motor and pump that was sitting in a junk pile when Dad bought the farm 42 years ago. Second one is from a bigger washing machine and he paid $2 for it at an auction.

One of those cheap drill pumps works. Doesn't have to be anything fancy, and cheap is better because you don't know what the calcuim will do to the pump innards. It would suck to buy a $300 pump only to have it crust up and self-destruct after the first use.

Harbor freight use to have a $19 pump, looks like a $50 Wayne brand, like a sprayer pump.  

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3 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

 

One of those cheap drill pumps works. Doesn't have to be anything fancy, and cheap is better because you don't know what the calcuim will do to the pump innards. It would suck to buy a $300 pump only to have it crust up and self-destruct after the first use.

When Dad & I mounted the new tires on my Super H,  was in 1969 or '70,  we used a 55 gal drum and a drill powered pump to pump fluid out of and back into both tires.  Pump catastrophically failed with only a few gallons to put back in the last tire, roughly 50 gallon per tire.  The calcium chloride eventually dissolved the glue or whatever between the rubber impeller inside the pump and the stainless steel shaft.  Brand new pump,  did a tire a day,  pumped out fluid, changed tire and pumped fluid back in.  Was a half day affair to swap one tire.

That CaCl fluid is nasty stuff.  Flash forward to Febuary think it was 2012 or '13,  Storm of the Century,  two straight days of blowing and drifting snow, started Friday afternoon late, all day Saturday and about Noon Sunday I go out to shop to start Super H and clear the 2 foot to 4 foot drifts.  Snow packed in so hard you could walk on top of the drifts and barely leave a foot print.

Tractor is pulled in shop, listing to Starboard a bit,  rear tire completely flat, rim almost touching the floor,  good news it's 3 feet from the compressor and it's pumped up, I have 80 gallon of 140 psi air.  The tire will not take air.  I finally remove valve core, stick a small drill bit in, stem is plugged with some hard minerals from the CaCl,  I drill the waterstem out, install the valve core, tire takes air but still leaks.  Have to air up tire every time I use tractor. Leaks down in about a day. Turns out that was the original Firestone tube from the original Firestone tires from Farmall that had 3-4 patches on the inside of the tube that contacted the rim.  The patches seemed fine when we put them in the new tires back in '69 or '70.  Fact the tire never leaked any for over 40 years means that was a good call.  There was only a little fluid around the bottom of the tire, tube was almost empty, had maybe a quart of fluid left. Dad told me once He thought he drained the fluid out of the tires, and probably he did from that tire.  Other tire was Valvestem full, 75%.  If he drained the tires, he only did one!  I put new Firestone tubes in the tires, only positive way to get all the fluid out.

Been looking for a matching 13.6x38 6 ply Firestone Field & Road for the M, has miss-matched rears, or a good pair of matching tires.  Bet the rims look like brand new under the tubes yet, 67 years after first set of tirrs installed, original tires were 12-38 Generals with the checkmark shapped lugs. They ended up on our M&W duals till at least 1972.

I had a junk washing machine in my yard for close to a year, finally cut it up with my plasma cutter and tossed it out with the trash.  Wish I'd have saved the pump now!

 

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On 5/21/2018 at 8:31 AM, stronger800 said:

New rims, are the way to go no doubt. But if youre on a tight budget, and need it work, an option: (guys don't pick on me, we all know we've seen it done before) is to remove the tire and inspect the rim. It may be able to be patched and welded up. Then you get a new tube. Or patch your tube. And put it back together.   Only cost would be pumping the flyid, which, if you have to pay a guy to do that.....it's not really feasible I suppose.  

Super tight budget:. Drain the fluid yourself, save it in a barrel, untill you can pay a guy to pump it back in.     

Those suggestions are going to go over well here I bet.....

Nothing wrong with repaired rims. I have a pair of rims for the M in the shed. I need a third one in good enough shape for stealing patches to fix the pair I am saving. 

Friend of mine who's a welder used to take rims off a car split them down the center and at various places.  Weld tgem back together to change the width and have the same profile that was originally on the tractor. Then  welding them to their Factory round spoke centers where the rim had been rusted away and he was a good enough welder you could not tell that they weren't Factory round spokes when he got done. 

These tractors unfortunately we're that weird off-color and they did sometimes go to the national green and yellow show in Iowa ;)

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