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Blindboy

TD-9 series B Steering clutch problem

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We've got a TD-9 B that has a steering clutch problem that I have search the site for answers and just can't seem to find any info on.  The clutch is engaged and pulling , but you  can not disengage it.  The lever pulls all the way to the seat with no response but you can tell the brake lugs the engine when engaged.  Pulled the cover off after the cab etc , brakes good, but the release fork is jammed tight all the way against the pinion gear housing with the release bearing and the pressure spring retainer moved towards the center of the crawler a lot further than the right side which is working fine.   The release fork would move the assembly as it should yet no release as it looked like it would not push it far enough into the drum.  Have the bolts come out of the pressure plate and turned the retainer loose???  If so how do I get this back together to get the clutch out???  Help!   Thanks in advance!   Will get pictures of both this crawler and the 1957 TD 9 Gas to Diesel soon! 

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Got a couple of pictures of these clutches, left side is first, the one that won't disengauge, right ( with the grease line) is the one that works great

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If both clutches have tension against the drum, The left one (without grease tube) the throwout bearing is too far out. Usually means the fiber discs have broken loose and fallen in between the metal drive plates, locking up the clutch in engaged position. Will require the removal of the left side drum for disassembly and inspection. You probably would be wise to pull the other side at the same time to check the condition of the fiber plates on the good side. You dont want to have to dig in here after a short run time. Make sure you have a big box of bandaids handy as you will skin a few knuckles on this operation. Good idea to check the brake band condition at the same time. Jim.

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Thanks Jim!  That might be the case, also the pressure plate is also pushed against the drum tight where as the good side has about a 1/4 - 3/8ths gap.

So guess what's happening is the realease collar and bearing are just pushing the spring and not moving the pressure plate??

Do I need to move that spring,  release collar in and lock it down somehow to get the assembly out of the housing??

Thanks !

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BB,  you will need some clearance to remove the housing and get at the coupler bolts inside. If the spring will compress, you could build a plate to hold the bearing in the clutch drum to give you the room you need to get the coupler out. Will be some tight quarters in there, maybe some custom modified wrenches and tools. Jim.

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Appreciate the info, Jim!

I was able yesterday to get a couple of steel wedges in the housing and get the bearing loose enough to be able to get the pivot rod out.  Got some  kind of pressure on it!  Got a porta power, gonna try to push it some more that and then put some plate dogs to hold the bearing in maybe then maybe I'll have enough room to get to the other bolts and on to the coupling. 

yeah. might as well check the other side as well since I'm this deep....  Brakes look pretty good though, about 1/4 to 3/8ths thick!

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After removing and repairing the bad side, pulling and inspecting the good side will be a walk in the park. This is such a nasty, dirty job, I feel it's best to make sure all is correct before you button it up.  Make sure you mark (index) the drum to the flange before you unbolt the clutch drum for removal so you get it back in the proper position. Couple of punch marks with yellow paint works well. Also check the seals and lower bearings/bushings on the vertical shafts as these are often not maintained ( not greased) Jim.

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With the use of 2 small plate dogs and steel wedges, extended length 5/8" wrenches I was able to get the release bearing back far enough to get the bolts out of the coupling retainer.  Pure luck involved, the plate dogs actually cleared so I could rotate the drum all the way around!!  I think we can get the drum out now!

Also moved her up on the concrete, much better!!

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Finally got back on this clutch.  Read the manual about the bolts to relieve the spring pressure.  The only thing is, when I released the dogs I built, there was no pressure on the bearing and the spring came out with the bearing!  It looks like the spring retainer has been ground out and doesn't hold the spring back!  What happened here???  The other thing is the disc are rusted solid to the drum where water sat on the bottom of the housing.  The drum is extremely pitted don't know if it can be cleaned up.  My have to get another spring retainer and drum....any ideas?  

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Edited by Blindboy
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Looks like something has been chewing on the fiber disc lower left. Maybe that was you trying to wedge out that disc. I would try pressure or steam washing the whole housing, then tapping with a brass hammer on center hub to try and get some of the stuck plates loose. I dropped mine on a bed of 2x4s on shop floor until the plates came out. Others have used an air hammer set low to put some vibration to the rust to break it loose. Check the parts diagram to see what parts need replacing. Try to save the clutch discs if possible.Check the springs for height and force to contract. The drum can be turned if not too badly scored or pitted. If not, you can get replacements at General Gear or FP Smith in Cordelia, Calif. Since you will be checking the good side, now would be a good time to pull it out and compare its parts to the damaged one.  Take pictures and notes on disassembly and remember to index the drive flange. Jim.

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You can also try soaking it in Evaporust to free it up.  Evaporust is non toxic and doesn't attack any of the non ferrous metals in the clutch material.  Harbor Freight and some Ace Hardware carry it.

https://www.evapo-rust.com/

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Finally got the discs out, not to bad a job, PB Blaster loosened them up after a good soaking Thanks Hector, for the offer!  I've cleaned up the discs and they are pretty good except for some pitting from rust.  Drum is pretty rusty too, cleaning up with bead blaster.

What I need most is the spring retainer, because the one that is in it is worn to the point it doesn't hold the spring in!  Do you have one of those?  Also want to replace the  release bearing, and seals.  Where's the best place to get these?  Thanks in advance!

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I am in the process of restoring a TD-9 and have some left over steering clutch parts.  PM me with the parts you are looking for?

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7 hours ago, Blindboy said:

Finally got the discs out, not to bad a job, PB Blaster loosened them up after a good soaking Thanks Hector, for the offer!  I've cleaned up the discs and they are pretty good except for some pitting from rust.  Drum is pretty rusty too, cleaning up with bead blaster.

What I need most is the spring retainer, because the one that is in it is worn to the point it doesn't hold the spring in!  Do you have one of those?  Also want to replace the  release bearing, and seals.  Where's the best place to get these?  Thanks in advance!

I check this afternoon and have no more spring retainer and seals  in good condition but still have the collar trust bearing assembly

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Redwood, thanks for the help with those parts , I really appreciate it.  Got the clutch assembled and waiting on the seal for the bevel gear side to arrive.  Got a new throw out bearing last week   Every thing went back  together pretty well after blasting .  Need to check the other side.....

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Finally, after hay cutting, fluffing, raking and rolling hay, planting Millet for doves, fertilizing, plus the regular job, I had enough time to get the TD9B back together for some trial runs.  Cranks and runs good, changed out the alternator for a 1 wire set up, new belts, hoses, battery cables etc.  

Pushed a few trees yesterday, worked good, seems strong, will spin tracks,  Clutches, brakes, working great, thanks  to Redwood for the spares he had.

Got a fuel leak on the back side of the pump I can't get to that needs some attention.  

Blade hydraulics are extremely slow, need more investigation, maybe the pump?  Control valve? 

Named it Ole Smokey, Killing trees since '63!

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Back to the TD9B, motor running hot , water pump leaking, cleaned radiator, replaced pump,  steering clutches and brakes great, working like a champ now.  Hydraulics slow, rebuilt both cylinders for the blade as they were bypassing internally.  Every thing worked great for about an hour, and then the blade reaction speed really slowed down and hydraulic oil seemed real hot.  Blade  will hold in the up position all night.  Getting a whine for the system when picking the blade up, the tracks out run the blade in 1st gear, half throttle.  Works better when cool...

What pressure should I be getting and how many gallons per minute should the pump be running?  The pump has no numbers or ID on it. It is mounted to the crankshaft at the front of the motor. Any #s for a replacement for the pump?

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Can you post a picture of your pump, someone will most likely know what you have there ..: 

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I have a td9b and the left hand steering clutch is leaking oil from the bull gear bad trying to find seals that go on that side and if i can avoid pulling the clutch cause i cant get my fender peices off. And any help finding parts 

 

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