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madmac74

Breathing life into a 1981 Cargostar 1850B

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 Greetings all.   Nice to see other  like minded individuals with similar tastes on here...I've been lurking for a couple months now  and appriceate any and alll help you can give. I have a 1981 IH Cargostar 1850B, single axle Dump truck, Is got a Cat 3208 N/A and an Allison 5 speed automatic transmission. So far i've got it running after a 6 years of  sitting in a field. This entailed me removing the  high pressure fuel pump and having it rebuilt . I also installed 8 new injectors.  The CAT purrs nicely now . the Transmission shifts good and the driveline brake holds well.  I also replaced the hydraulic tank sight glass and both spin-on filters, Now the Hydraulics work . I just need to find a replacement push/ pull cable for the Dump valve . I 'm currently working on the service brakes with  (HYDROVAC) . Specifically the master cylinder.  I have bled the brakes and followed  the manuals from Binder books,  the pedal still goes to the floor on the first application but if pumped comes good .... I've searced the internet and locally for a replacement Master Cylinder but no luck anywhere.. The IH Part number is 294328C91. My truck has the heavy duty code 04012. I have the ability to remove and rebuild the Master Cylinder but finding the internal cups and springs and things  has proved difficult . any and all help and  or advice would be much appreaciated.. i mistakeinly posted this under the Title  Loadstar Brakes, Admin please delete..

 

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20180304_175347_011.jpgTheres a few componants that have me stumped , the first is the master cylinder and the second looks like some sort of vaccume hand valve .... I look forward to yakin with you all.

Thanks very much 

Parker @ PHM Services

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I have seen that same valve in an f350 dump truck. It is the tailgate latch control.

It looks like the master cylinder should be rebuilt, but I cannot help with parts.

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Madmack 

        I am thinking that if you can get the brakes to hold or work, after pumping them up,  the first thing I would do is to do a very good job of bleeding out air in the system.   I have worked on these brakes and they are difficult to bleed.  You will need to be very persistant. 

       A good method of bleeding is called  "Back bleeding".   You will need to build an adapter that allows you to hook your pressure bleeder to each of the wheel cylinders,  one at a time.    Start bleeding at the farthest wheel cylinder,  purge the air all the way back to the master cylinder.   This can take quite a lot of DOT 3 brake fluid,  but after bleeding this way the system will be full of clean air free fluid.   After bleeding the furthest wheel cylinder close off the bleeder,  and move to the next bleeder.   By the time you get to the Hydrovac you will be surprised how good the brakes will work.

GT&T

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would this considerd a phone-a-friend??:rolleyes:

 

MAC

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10 hours ago, GT&T said:

Madmack 

        I am thinking that if you can get the brakes to hold or work, after pumping them up,  the first thing I would do is to do a very good job of bleeding out air in the system.   I have worked on these brakes and they are difficult to bleed.  You will need to be very persistant. 

       A good method of bleeding is called  "Back bleeding".   You will need to build an adapter that allows you to hook your pressure bleeder to each of the wheel cylinders,  one at a time.    Start bleeding at the farthest wheel cylinder,  purge the air all the way back to the master cylinder.   This can take quite a lot of DOT 3 brake fluid,  but after bleeding this way the system will be full of clean air free fluid.   After bleeding the furthest wheel cylinder close off the bleeder,  and move to the next bleeder.   By the time you get to the Hydrovac you will be surprised how good the brakes will work.

GT&T

Thanks for the tip. I will try that method

MAC

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Madman

      Just checking on your progress, how has it been going?

GT&T

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As stated before , I can get good solid brakes after 1 and a half pumps . I did the method you recommended without the pressure bleed however.  The wheel cylinders seem to be bleeding air free fluid. I  have 2 front bleed screws seized that I still neeed to fix however. I 've come to the conclusion the brakes themselves are out of adjustment . Just about everything I touch on this truck tells me it hasn't had a Mechanics hand on r for a LONG time. So I'm in the process of removing the wheels for inspection. I need to do this anyways in preperation for commercial vehicle inspection. Old man winter is still hanging on up here , so Work on the Cargostar has been slow , Thanks for the reply!

Madmac

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Madmack

       Wow,   that is some snow.    You could be very right about the brakes needing to be adjusted.   I'm sorry you have such harsh weather to deal with.  Keep us posted as you make progress.

GT&T

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will do. thanks for the advice, feel free to share more insights. Dump trucks are a new thing for me ,however heavy Equipment is my profession ;)

 

Mac:D

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I've got a '74 Cargostar with air brakes and a Fuller manual transmission.  It has a clutch master cylinder that mounts in the same spot as your brake master, and looks the same.  I bought a new unit from Rock Auto for $112.61.  It doesn't show a part for a '74, but the part for a 1980 looked the same and had the same bore size so I took a chance and bought it.  Centric part number 136.83003 and has an 1-1/8" bore.  Fit perfect and works great.

I looked up your truck and it says to use Centric 136.83002, but the picture doesn't look right.  If you can confirm it has an 1-1/8" bore you could order the same one I got.  Only difference I can see from your pic is that the filler is on the opposite side.

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No mine is a 1-3/4 bore..Centric number 130.83018.. I've searched around the web with that part number and have seen it ,but no stock from anyone , that will ship to Canada. I do have the factory parts book too . My truck has the heavy duty brake package 04012. 

 

 It would be great if y'all down south could find one and mail it to me :D

 

Thanks a bunch !!

 

Mac

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Hey y'all,

 Just an update on my project. I have been waiting and waiting for brake parts , front shoes and wheel cylinders,  and also mounting hardware. Couple that with a busy tractor season and a full time job, needless to say things are still moving along slowly.  I did how ever replace those 20" rears with a set of decent 22.5's with great rubber, now I'm 22.5 front and back!

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Nice looking machine, hope it serves you well.

Keep us posted.

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Thanks! currently waiting on master cylinder parts .. but all the brakes and Seals /speedy sleaves are done and adjusted.  getting real close to A test drive... 

 

I'm looking at replacing the Hydrovac and am wondering if anyone knows which one I have ? the factory # Is 575277C91... I've seen a few on the web and I'm not sure if they cross.. they look identicle.

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  So I rebuilt the master cylinder, and re-bled the entire system.. Still the same, nothing on the first push of the pedal ,then it starts to built up after that . took it for a test drive around the block ,( and also found the Allison won't shift outa 2nd gear.)....in regards to the brakes,  Research has pointed me towards  the Residual Checkvalve , which is in the Hydrovac. I also pumped the brakes up and then started the engine and the brake Pedal didn't go down like it should.   So i've got a new /rebuilt Hydrovac to install now. Only problem is the residual check valve is located in the end of the it , and the new unit doesn't have one .  would be nice to replace that too.

 

MAC

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Residual check valve will not cause your brake issues . they are designed to hold a minute amount of pressure to keep the lips of the wheel cylinder cups

from leaking at rest ,  newer style cups/cylinders have tension built into the lips to prevent leaks.

Just in case you were wondering it takes over 60 lbs of pressure to overcome the brake shoe return springs.

 

Can you look in the master cylinder when pumping it ?  If so check for a mini geyser of fluid after pumping when you take your foot off pedal.

that is sure sign of trapped air , 

Fingers crossed the new booster helps 😀

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MAC,

Nice looking truck! Body / bed look to be in good condition. 

Could look like this someday?

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Regards,

 Chris

 

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I too like that dump truck! Hope that 3208 holds up well for ya. 

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Thanks for the Flowers guys.   This things going to be more of a work truck than a show truck.  But who says you can't look good while workin??

 

CHeers to all

 

MAC

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Ok , so round 3 on my Brakes , I replaced the Hydovac and verified it does work , by the pedal going to the floor upon start-up ,and I finally have a vaccum   bleeder not a pressure like I thought i had... I bled it all out manualy to start then attached the vaccum bleeder. the best i could get is still 1and a half pumps til good .. is there a sequence of bleeding I'm missing? I'm thinking that PRESURE bleeding Like GT&T suggest is the only way 

Thanks gang

Parker in PG

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Is it possible your tranny not shifting, could also be a indicator of your brake issue? you have a vacuum/hydraulic brake system, and an automatic transmission, do you see the connection? both system's require a certain level of vacuum created while the engine runs for proper braking, and proper shifting. check the level of vacuum that is created with the engine running, that may be the base of your problems.

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 So Lars, the only connections to my Allison automatic are  the throttle cable and a kickdown linkage. My Vacuum gauge reads just under 29 HG so the pump seems ok . I don't see how that  would have anything to do do with my Vacuum hydraulic brake system. So, no I do not see the connection, could u please elaborate? 

 

MAC

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Hydrovac's need the shoes really close to the drums to work right. 1 1/2 pumps means the wheel cylinders require too much fluid to move far enough first pump.

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vacuum/hydraulic brakes need a certain amount of vacuum to operate proper( I don't know what the correct level should be for that truck)

automatic transmissions of that era also needed a proper level of vacuum, (that how automobiles shifted decades ago) I dont know if that model of Allison operates that way, I never recall using a diesel/w hyd brakes.

check to be sure a vacuum hose or tube was not capped off by a previous owner.

I'm not saying that 'is' the problem, I was throwing it out there as a possibility.

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