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cotton1

Tires and Rims

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I need to buy some rear tires for several tractors. I also want to change tire sizes on several tractors when I do buy the new tires. The time to act is now since Firestone is giving a hundred dollars off on their tires from February 1 until the end of March I think. That is important because I like the 23 degree rears on my 826 and would like to put those on all of my tractors eventually. Now this is going to get a little complicated so please be patient. Here is what I have currently: 826 has 65-70% tread 23 degree Firestone 18.4 x 34 rears with brand new 10.00 x 16 fronts. 756 has 15.5 x 38 Goodyear rears that are completely bald and 9.5 x 15l fronts that are 80%. 1566 has 20.8 x 38 Safemark rears that are bald and 11.00 x 16  Goodyear fronts that are 50%.

What I want to do : 1. Take the 34 inch rears off of the 8 and put them on the 756. 2. Put the  38 inch centers on the 826 and put 18.4 x 38 23 degree Firestones on. 3. figure out which front best works with which rear, but thinking of going a little bigger on the front of the 1566 and putting the 11.00's on the 826, and thus the 10.00's on the 756.

Now here are my questions : 1. Do I need 16 x 38 rims for the 18.4's? I think the 15.5s are on 14 inch rims. 2. Will 18.4 tires work on the 1566 that currently has 20.8 rubber ( not sure if these are 18 inch rims or what)? 3.what size fronts work best with which size rears?  4.What size tire is the next up from the 11:00 and what size rim do I need for that?(14L?) 5.I need a good place to buy rims from that are durable- I do all of my farming with these old machines.Any good experiences/suggestions?

If the 18.4s would work on the 1566 I might get a better deal for buying 6 of them at the time, other than that the 20.8s are about 300 more each than the 18.4s. I have always hated the 15.5 x 38 tires but had them on my 706 and they were what was on the 756 when I bought it 5-6 years ago and I just got the good out of them. They are not good for me though since it makes the rear so close to the ground. I mostly work hay with the 756 and the ground clearance is a pain when the windrows are full. The hitch pen drags in the hay. I am sure the 18.4 x 34's will pick the rear of the 756 up enough to cure that problem( thinking 4-6 inches taller?). I also have always thought the 34's looked too small for the 826, probably since my Grandads 806 and 1206 both had 38 inch rears when I was coming up. Not sure how 16.9's would suit me, we have never ran them on any of the tractors here. They seem like they would be too narrow for a 826??

I believe the axles are the same on the 826 and the 756 so not too worried about that part. It would be good for my bank account if the rims that the 15.5s are on would work for the 18.4's, but I dont want to live with a mess for years to come either, would rather have the correct rim for the tire.

Thanks in advance for any help,

Cotton1

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18.4's on 14" rims is going to be a tight squeeze getting them on, and they will probably look "pinched" and rounded across the tread, giving you poor tread wear and performance over time. They really should be on 16" rims to allow them to flatten out properly.

18.4's on 18" rims will work, as long as you use tubes and lots of lube. Getting them to pop on the beads tubeless may require explosives. These are radials, right? There have been several articles over the years on putting tires on wider rims giving better traction and performance. Here is an early one:

https://www.farmshow.com/a_article.php?submit_search=1&keywords1=widened rims&aid=3723&aid_previous=4887&page_num=1&nav_previous=1&nav_next=1

Are the wheel centers on the 756 8-hole or 12-hole? If 12-hole they'll work fine on the 826, but IMHO the lighter 8-hole centers are a little light for that much HP.

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Thanks for the feedback! I really would like to find some 16 inch rims for the 18.4s, but don't know where to find them? I have not had much luck with the google finding new rims, and I did ask my local tire man when I was talking with him about the cost of the new tires yesterday. Even he couldn't tell me who to ask and 2/3 of his business is farm or logging.

I used the 756 this evening to put out hay, so I was within walking distance. I went out and counted, they are indeed 12 hole centers on the 756 with just one weight per center.

My plans are for bias tires. I tried radials in the past and just didn't see the benefit for me. Most of my land is within 5-6 miles now, and even when some of my fields were 20 miles apart I still didn't move enough to wear the tires down too quick in my opinion. I also didn't like the way the radials rode on the highway, which seemed backwards to me. In fact I took some decent 18.4 x 34 radials off of the 826 and replaced them with the 23deg Firestones (biased ply) several years ago. I have been happy with that set and thus want to put them on my other tractors now. Guess its needless to say, but I will be using tubes. I may consider tubeless with new tires on new rims if I can find them, but with these old rims they all get a tube.

I wonder if the 15 will look weird with the 18.4s on it instead of the 20.8? If they will work and I do put the 18.4 on, I probably will just stick with the 11:00 fronts then.  I probably didnt mention, but the 15 has factory rims as well as factory hub duals. I am guessing they are 18 inch rims but don't know that for sure.

 

Cotton1

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I think that 18.4 on the 15 is really undersized for the horsepower (and weight of the rear end). Unless you are running duals and even then I would say 20.8-38 or 18.4- 42 on the back of a 15

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18.4 will fit on the narrower rims for the 15.5 but they will be narrower and taller. If you are using  the 15 for tillage you don't want 18.4x38. Thx-Ace

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"I have always hated the 15.5 x 38 tires but had them on my 706 and they were what was on the 756 when I bought it 5-6 years ago and I just got the good out of them. They are not good for me though since it makes the rear so close to the ground. I mostly work hay with the 756 and the ground clearance is a pain when the windrows are full. The hitch pen drags in the hay. I am sure the 18.4 x 34's will pick the rear of the 756 up enough to cure that problem( thinking 4-6 inches taller?)."

Put your 826 and 756 side by side and use a tape measure under the drawbar of each . Compare the measurements .  The ground clearance you have on the 826 now will be the same on the 756 if you move  the 18.4's to the 756.   

According to Firestone tire specs site    https://commercial.firestone.com/content/dam/bcs-sites/bridgestone-ex/products/Databooks/Firestone-AG-DataBook_08-29-2016.pdf

the 23 degree Radial  pictured below shows static loaded radius of

15.5/38 at 28.2 "    18.4/34 at 28.8 "   18.4/38 at 30.8 "

So....... if you put 18.4/34 on to replace 15.5/38 and think you are going to raise rear end of 756 to get more clearance by 4-6 inches ... it ain't going to happen . You will get only about 1/2 inch more . 

Second chart below of  a bias tire  shows static loaded radius of 

15.5/38  at 28.5"       18.4/34  at 29.4"       18.4/38  at 31.4"

18.4 over 15.5 will get you less than one inch increase in clearance.

If you really need or want 4-6 " more clearance on that 756,  18.4/46 tires show static loaded radius of 34.8" . Rims are available from suppliers but good luck with getting any wheel centers that will fit the axle. What you really need for a lot of rear end clearance would be a Hi-Clear model. Picture below.

If you use the 826 for heavy draft tillage loads , keep the 18.4/34 on it . Putting 38's on it will lug it down more than you think.

Capture Firestone tires.JPG

Capture Firestone tires  2.JPG

856 Hi  Clear.jpg

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 New tall tires and rims to mount them are going to cost you some money. Use short pin in your drawbar  and fabricate some sort of sheet metal shield over it to allow hay to slide under it would be cheaper than tall tires and rims to use them.

Below is another chart that has a bias tire that is available up to 42" diameter.  It shows 18.4/42 has static loaded radius at 33.3 " . That would raise your 756 up close to 5" over your now 15.5 tires . 

And here are some used rims that you can mount 42 " tires on the 38' centers that you have now.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-16-x-42-Step-Up-Double-Bevel-Rim-Silver-38-Center-/401069570827

Capture Firestone 3.JPG

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Any shop that deals in tractor tires should also sell rims. I don't know why your tire guy seems to think they're so difficult to obtain.

"16 x 38 tractor rims" in google yields literally hundreds of places to buy them starting around $300 each. What were you searching on?

Don't buy online without checking locally first. I started calling around about 20.8R38 Mitas AC86's for the 1586, and a local shop quoted me $1125 each while simpletire.com is asking $1237.99.

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Call Cross Machinery,    417-842-3405.   I have bought several sets of rims from them.  They are at 301 Main St., Mindenmines, MO.  64769.  Currently they are getting $235.00 for 16X38 rear double bevel rims.  For the 18 inch wide rim, they are $265.00.  I have had good service from them.  Nothing beats new rims for rusty, bent and warped old ones.

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IME, going to the larger tire on the 7 and 8 are going to loose you HP.   The larger the tire, the lower the torque, just like a gear ratio.   I've talked to several people that said going from 34 to 38" tires on a 806 turned it into a dog.   Dont know if you use it in the field, or just around the place, but I'd recommend staying with 18.4-34 on the 7 & 8, and 20.8s on the 15.

Too bad your 15.5-38's are shot.  One of my co-workers just bought back his Grandpas M-M UB.   Had a 16.9-38 and one side and a 15 on the other.  He asked me where you could get "good used" tractor tires so he could find a match.....SNORT!

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If you go with 18.4/38 on the 756 you will raise rear of tractor 2.9" above what you have with 15.5's.

Excerpt from chart below shows static loaded radius ( circled in red ) of the three tire sizes that you mention. 

I agree with what Jeff ( above ) just posted.

Capture Firestone 4.JPG

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We like 16.9's on our 656,666,686 verses the 15.5 on 14" rims and have 2 826's and 886 with 16.9's also. That would be my vote for the 756 ,now on the 826 depending on your usage if heavy field work I'd stay with the 34". And like others said the 15 will have better traction with the 20.8. Tire decisions can get tough to decide at times. Pic of 16.9's on 666 and 826

20171231_115605.jpg

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Hey, thanks for all the input! I now have a lot of information to work with. I'm not sure what I messed up on the Google search, but I was not getting any leads on the rims. I will be calling Cross Machinery probably- thank you rsscott!

The 16.9s are something to consider I guess. I could keep my rims and put 16.9 on the 7, but what I really want is 18.4x38 on my 8. I don't think I will ever go to a tire larger than 38 inch on my farm. 

As far as the work load goes, the 706 is down for mechanical failure. The 756 mostly uses PTO hp working hay, plus it's my loader tractor. The 8 also uses PTO power mostly with the sprayer and the batwing bush hog. I have a disc that is 16 ft (496 center section)but it is too heavy really for the 8.I sold my 13 ft field cultivator I used with the 8 but still have a chisel and some bottoms for it. I don't plow any more but if I get the notion to it will be with the 8.

I'm probably going to stick with the 20.8 on the 15. It's job's are a 20 ft disc and a 19 ft field cultivator, maybe a subsoiler. I may have to keep running what's on it for a while, depending on how my money holds out. The 756 has to be addressed this spring.

I would try to get some pictures but right now I am pulling 12 hr shifts off farm. Still need to get the pump and gasket repairs done on the 8 from New Year day!

Thanks again!

Cotton1

 

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Like has been said you won't gain diddly putting 34's on the 756 height wise. But that is certainly a good size for that tractor. I love 16.9's on a 6 or 7, but it is cheaper to use the more common size of 18.4. A 16.9x38 is only slightly taller than an 18.4x34, so you don't gain much there either. I think your 826 would be just right on 18.4x38 and you can buy step up rims to do it if you go that route. You could always start with new 18.4's on new rims with the 7 and switch them sometime if you choose.

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Don’t put 16.9’s on

stay with 18.4

i had 16.9’s on a 706 hated them for haying 

the power thing? You have other gears...

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Made a call today on the rims. I'm going to go ahead with the 18.4 x 38 on the 8, and put the 18.4 x 34 on the 7. It might take a while for me to get my money right to do it, but I will try to post pictures when I do. FWIW the 16 x 38 rims were $235 each and the step up rims were over $400 each.

Now I wonder what is the best front tire combo with the rears. I have always thought that the 18.4 x 38 worked best with 11.00 x 16 and 18,4 x 34 worked best with 10.00 x 16 but my 826 as it sets today has that combination and the front looks too tall in my opinion. The fronts on the 8 are brand new as of the fall of 17 and I plan to see what they look like with the 38 inch rears. My 756 which will receive the 18.4 x 34s currently has 9.5l x 15 front rubber. I think they will be too small. What do you guys run with what size rear?

I may need to buy some new rims for the front of one of the tractors as well as new front tires to get things straightened out around here. I just have a bunch of mismatched stuff here in my opinion since I bought them like that and used the tires up instead of changing them out immediately. As mentioned earlier, I would go to a big front tire on my 1566 if I new what that was and what size rim it needed. It currently has 11.00 x 16 on it. I also have a 1440 combine with 11.00 x 16 rears that could be changed out with one of the tractors.

Like you may imagine, I will do what i want to in the end. I do want to hear your opinions and they don't have to coincide with mine! I don't get upset too easy. Just wanted to throw that out there since I am not a regular name on these forums. Thanks again to all who have chimed in so far!

Questions: Is there a such thing as a 10.00 x 15? If so will they fit on the rims my 9.5l x 15s are on?

The only other tractor I have had with 34 inch rears was a 4020 JD. It had 10.00x 16 fronts I thought, but they looked right together. My 8 looks tilted to the rear so to speak, and I don't like that. I will try to get some pictures of it when I get the MCV gasket repairs completed and the tractor moved to a  better position for a picture.

Cotton1

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Just a observation, when I put 16.9x24's on my 1440. I kept the 11.00x16 for spares, the offset is different on the combine and tractor wheels.

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delete

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I have 9.5-15 on the front of the 966 with 18.4-34 bias and it sits level 

the 706 with 18.4-34 continental radials has 10-16 fronts it sits slightly nose up but not much. I put them on mainly for the 8 bolt rims I wanted the extra strength since a loader is hanging on it most of the time. 

 

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They have an 11-00-15 tire

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1086Plowboy- the combine rims will not work with the tractors? 

Dumbfarmer- my 9.5 x 15 were snagged off of a 966 a friend of mine bought at auction probably 15-20 years ago. He put 10.00 x 16 on it as best I remember. Your post reminded me that I need to see if those are 6 or 8 bolt rims.

Bitty- 11.00 x 15 might be what I need. Thanks for the heads up.

Cotton1

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The combine wheels will fit, just more negative offset. I would have to measure, seemed like about an inche.

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