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SeattleIHAddict

TRANSMISSION STUCK IN REVERSE - farmall 560

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Greetings all. My 1958 farmall 560 gasoline engines tractor was working great yesterday until I was driving it uphill in reverse pulling a big log. Then when I got to where I wanted, I pressed in the clutch and tried to shift it into first to release the tension on the pulling strap and it wouldn't shift out of reverse. I kept trying To pop the shifter even just into neutral and it just wouldn't go. Then on one last shift, the clutch almost acted like it stayed in and the pedal was purely loose with no tension on it and the tires started turning slowly still in reverse. I had to kill the key to turn off the engine. I opened the shifter cover and tried to see if it was stuck in gear and two of the three steel bars could be moved but the last one wouldn't budge. And it apppeared to be in reverse, space wise. The pedal is totally lose still while off. Any ideas?  Still stuck in reverse and I need to rock it free?  It's still facing downhill...could there be downhill momentum making it hard to shift?  Clutch shot?  Thanks for reading. Hope that I've explained the situation well enough. Eric

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Is your TA adjusted correctly?  If your tractor has a wide front you can sometimes put a block on downhill side of one tire and turn into it to relieve pressure on gears.

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First of all, how steep of a hill.  Block it securely so it cannot roll before you attempt any more.  It sounds like you have a clutch problem if you say the clutch does not feel right along with a TA out of adjustment. If you cannot get it out of gear by pulling the TA lever back while also pushing the clutch in, you can release the tension by jacking up one rear wheel.  Then go from there to determine your problem.

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sounds like ta out of adjustment...w bad shifter ...possible ta or main clutch getting weak if adjusted

2x chain to another tractor/truck  take up load 2x block  , remove pin so ta fully seated forward/home, get back in neutral, carefully run to shop in 3/4, repair shifter/rails per other threads running now,  inspect adjust ta fully

 

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You got two problems.

First, like others have said, your TA is out of adjustment. On the side of the tractor where the clutch linkages are, there is a short bar running from the clutch rockshaft to the TA rockshaft. Every time you press the clutch this short bar is supposed to shift the TA into low range to allow you to shift. In high range, the one-way clutch in the TA unit causes the gears to bind slightly, and makes the tractor difficult or impossible to shift.

On flat ground the test for this would be to shift the TA into low and see if the tractor shifts smoothly. If it does the TA is definitely out of adjustment.

DO NOT PULL THE TA where the tractor is sitting. You WILL go for a scary ride back down the hill.

Second, something failed or broke between the clutch pedal and the main clutch. If it is external it should be obvious. However if all the linkage from the clutch pedal up to where the clutch rockshaft disappears into the tractor looks okay, the problem is internal, and will require splitting the tractor to fix. It could be the throwout bearing that has failed.

You need another tractor at this point. It is not going to move on its own without some repair. You will need to hook a chain on the 560 and pull it up the hill a little bit to relieve the pressure so you can shift it. Then you will need to tow the tractor somewhere you can work on it.

Wish the news was better, but unfortunately this kind of stuff comes with running old tractors.

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Okay. First off thanks for the replies. I'm pretty knew to my first tractors so some of the parts and terms are a bit over my head. Grateful for the advice. I will go grab all my manuals and start reading and identifying parts. I'm not sure if I was clear, but the tractor is facing DOWN hill while it was in reverse pulling UP HILL backwards. Does that change anything in the answers given?

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No. You still need to get something to pull the tractor up the hill to relieve the pressure on the transmission so you can shift it to neutral, then you need to let it down the hill and tow it to a shop where you can split the tractor and figure out what broke.

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On 5/25/2017 at 6:55 PM, SeattleIHAddict said:

Okay. First off thanks for the replies. I'm pretty knew to my first tractors so some of the parts and terms are a bit over my head. Grateful for the advice. I will go grab all my manuals and start reading and identifying parts. I'm not sure if I was clear, but the tractor is facing DOWN hill while it was in reverse pulling UP HILL backwards. Does that change anything in the answers given?

How did you come out on your problem?  Did you get it off the hill?  Just curious, never heard any more about it.

Dennis

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I just got off from work and will be home this weekend to work on it.  I will keep you posted gang. :)

Thanks again...wish me luck.

Eric

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Hello all. I've tried and tried and can't figure this one out. I have a video I've put together to show the issue pretty clearly. It's still facing slightly down hill. When I start it, it seems to be in "direct drive" from what I'm reading in manuals. Supposedly the tractor can be shifted in such a way that it is actually in gear when you start it immediately already in reverse (in my case). I believe this is a feature of the 560 but again I'm so new to this. 

Heres the link. It's quite a large video so it might take time to buffer or download to watch. 

https://alumaglass.box.com/s/j8d4hvd5lyzxg177mac42xuamzalk5x5

Thanks for for all the help. Im desperate at this point. 

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Great video , 

the free play in the clutch pedal is only 1inch and 1/16 to 1 inch and 5/16 according to IT manual . 

Your has wAy more than that ! so others wth more experienced to comment . I have as much side to side movement in my pedal arm also . But I adjusted my free play to the 1 1/4 , good luck !

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I just looked at your video.  I cannot understand your audio portion very well, BUT, your clutch and TA are completely out of adjustment.  First off, your TA lever looks to be missing the stop pin on the very bottom of the lever that limits the forward movement of the lever. It goes wayyyyyyy too far forward.  You need to get that corrected before you can adjust the TA.   Then , why don't you take the plate off under the clutch and take a look to see if you have a release bearing still in there and fingers on the clutch that are not burned off. No use going through a lot of adjusting if clutch is not functioning.   If clutch finger look good, ta lever fixed, adjust that TA lever to  give you 3/16th free travel at the slotted end.  Do this with clutch linkage unhooked including that short linkage between clutch and TA. Adjust clutch to about 1 1/4 inch free movement. Then, with spring attached between ta and clutch linkage, adjust that short linkage to just fit. No play with TA lever ahead.  All you are doing with free play is making sure the throwout bearings on main clutch and ta clutch are not touching the  fingers when clutch is released and ta lever is ahead. When you get all said and done, when you depress the clutch pedal, the TA should release very close to the same amount as if you pull the TA lever back .   Have  you tried any of the ideas others have said about releasing the tension of the gears. Pulling tractor slightly backwards with another vehicle or blocking the tires and jacking up a rear wheel?

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If I heard correctly in your video you said you took the shifter tower off and got all the shift rails lined up in neutral?  

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2 hours ago, 65806 said:

If I heard correctly in your video you said you took the shifter tower off and got all the shift rails lined up in neutral?  

That is correct. Any thoughts?  I'm all ears!!  Lol! 😃

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12 hours ago, 560Dennis said:

Great video , 

the free play in the clutch pedal is only 1inch and 1/16 to 1 inch and 5/16 according to IT manual . 

Your has wAy more than that ! so others wth more experienced to comment . I have as much side to side movement in my pedal arm also . But I adjusted my free play to the 1 1/4 , good luck !

Thanks Dennis. I'll get my manuals and see the specs. 

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11 hours ago, pete23 said:

I just looked at your video.  I cannot understand your audio portion very well, BUT, your clutch and TA are completely out of adjustment.  First off, your TA lever looks to be missing the stop pin on the very bottom of the lever that limits the forward movement of the lever. It goes wayyyyyyy too far forward.  You need to get that corrected before you can adjust the TA.   Then , why don't you take the plate off under the clutch and take a look to see if you have a release bearing still in there and fingers on the clutch that are not burned off. No use going through a lot of adjusting if clutch is not functioning.   If clutch finger look good, ta lever fixed, adjust that TA lever to  give you 3/16th free travel at the slotted end.  Do this with clutch linkage unhooked including that short linkage between clutch and TA. Adjust clutch to about 1 1/4 inch free movement. Then, with spring attached between ta and clutch linkage, adjust that short linkage to just fit. No play with TA lever ahead.  All you are doing with free play is making sure the throwout bearings on main clutch and ta clutch are not touching the  fingers when clutch is released and ta lever is ahead. When you get all said and done, when you depress the clutch pedal, the TA should release very close to the same amount as if you pull the TA lever back .   Have  you tried any of the ideas others have said about releasing the tension of the gears. Pulling tractor slightly backwards with another vehicle or blocking the tires and jacking up a rear wheel?

Pete23, thanks for the very detailed reply. I will definitely do so. I've never been in the clutch area...what exactly am I looking for?  Symptoms?  Bad signs? Good traits to notice?  Etc?

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I am by no means near the expert as pete and some of the others. Do have a couple comments concerns. If when you start tractor it is still trying to dig then it is still in a gear. I would be concerend that maybe by forcing shift linkage under shift tower without releasing tension in drive line as others have suggested, that if all shift rails are indeed in nuetral postion that you may also have broken or caused somthing to slip inside transmision. Again my feeling is that if its still trying to move its in a gear. All ta does is give you an underdrive so to speak in whatever gear transmission is in. Wont cause tractor to move in and of its self. As for what to look for in clutch area...i would say any sign of damage or parts unhooked that even a novice like me or you would notice. If your not sure if somethings right come back and ask here. The nice folks will tell us. The side to side movement in clutch pedal is not all that uncommon on 560-460 and even 400-450. As those peadls are pushed some sideways thrust is exerted on the pedal causing them to wear down on pivot point and they start getting that sideways slop. I have a 560 diesel that the pedal will hit ta lever if im not watching and then i cant push clutch in. Thats not what you have going on and imo not part of your issue.

Yes your ta lever is going way to far forward and normaly when you push in clutch yes it will move ta lever as linkage also disengages the ta clutch when you push main clutch in so you can shift.

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Couple of photo's if this works.   The picture of linkage if from a 400 but same.  I don't know if you can see if clearly, but the free travel is pointed out with my arrow.  This is with the ta lever forward. Now, that TA lever in your picture is way too far forward.  Look at the bottom of the lever and there should  be a dowel pin in the bottom hole to limit the movement of the lever other wise no adjustment will be correct.  The link that is unhooked is the last one to be adjusted. You get your free travel on clutch and TA set and then adjust that , with spring between attatched, so you can just slip a pin in. Idea is so TA will start to release as soon as you start to press clutch pedal down.

The other picture is what your clutch should look like when taking off the thin plate under clutch housing. Note the bearing is just clearing the clutch fingers. That is the free travel you are adjusting at the lever.

Now, from looking at your video, it looks like the clutch operating lever going into the transmission housing is very far forward. This would indicate a problem with the clutch fingers being worn off. Might be wrong on that as hard to tell if picture was with pedal back or released.  The Direct drive TA clutch is also a dry clutch and has a release bearing much like main clutch. It can be easily inspected through that little four bolt cover on top of TA housing. It could well be giving you a problem also with worn out fingers, pins out or bearing shot. I would take a look at it also. 

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8 hours ago, SeattleIHAddict said:

That is correct. Any thoughts?  I'm all ears!!  Lol! 😃

Well with the big holes your rear tires are in it seems like you could just rotate the engine by hand to get any pressure off the gears even if you clutch is not releasing. 

It seems to me you have 2 separate problems. Clutch not releasing and shift rails not pulling it out of neutral.

pete has you lined out on the clutch issue

i think you need to take shift tower off again and see what's causing it not to come out of reverse.

 

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