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Farmall M band brakes leaking


1958560

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I got the band cover off and removed the brake drum/pulley. Then I removed the six bolts and threaded 2 back into the seal/bearing retainer to remove the retainer. The seal is leaking and I can see that the brake shaft will move up and down too much for the seal to hold. The retainer doesn't seem to want to come out, is there something else I need to do to remove the retainer? I don't have a book, and cant seem to get an M to come up on the caseih parts website, thanks Rob

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Stop, bull gear inside has to be moved before it will come out. Lot of them end up broken trying to remove like that.  Kind of a tough job to dig the old seal out if the original type. But it can be done after bolting the housing back up. Something round and deep enough to extend over pinion shaft and fits seal helps to install the new seal. Dave

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I have threaded a sheet metal screw in to the old style seals then carefully used a pry bar to work them out. Take your time. The new seal will be much thinner than the old ones. And yes; put those bolts back in!  Think I used a 6 inch or so piece of 2" ( 2.5 " ?) PVC pipe with a cap on one end to seat the new seals.

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Thats what I thought, there is some wiggle in the bearing, which is why I wanted to remove the retainer. Can the bull bear be moved enough thru the pto hole to get the retainer out? Also, how thick is the retainer, tractor has an f11 farmhand loader mounted to the axle, best I have is 7.5 inches clearance, is that enough? I'm afraid that a new seal won't hold, how loose is too loose? I get around .030 to .040 inch play up and down on the bolt head screwed into the shaft

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Sounds like you need to change the bull shaft bearings (the shaft will have to much movement and new seals wont stop the oil leak). I have the same problem with my W4 (actually the bearings have collapsed )and when I get some time ,I will fix it. Service manuals are easily available and are well worth getting. 

Marty,NZ

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Would remove seal and look into hole around shaft and see if bearing ball spacers or shields are intact and all balls in place.  Play at outer end of shaft doesn't sound excessive for a worn M. Inner end of bull pinion shaft goes into the differential side gears that let inner end move. Also bearing OD sometimes get play inside housing. So would check to see how much movement is in the bearing itself before removing. Housing is 6.5 inches long. can go through PTO hole if needed to move bull gear. With loader mounted to axle housing the axle will need pushed out a few inches. Remove bolt and washer from inner axle end, 4 bolts from outer bearing retainer after tire and wheel is removed from axle. If axle is tight in splines a porta power or a sleeve with bolt needed to push axle out of bull gear. Lot of times short cutting when doing transmission work on old M tractors doesn't pay. Good chances something else will be found wrong with more disassembly needed.  

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In my experience it's way simpler to just take the tranny cover off. Instead of messing around in the pto hole.  It really only takes a couple hours if you set your mind to it.  

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I've replaced axle bearings on 4/560s before and knew that axle had to come out some to get bull gear off, so I expected the same here. We decided to put on new seal and see how it works. Also replaced trans main and countershaft bearings and seals. Needs pto seal, but cannot get pump to budge on shaft. Have a 2 ton bottle Jack against shaft thru pump hole and chained onto pump. Have been trying to soak and beat/pry but no luck. Any suggestions? Thanks 

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47 minutes ago, 1958560 said:

I've replaced axle bearings on 4/560s before and knew that axle had to come out some to get bull gear off, so I expected the same here. We decided to put on new seal and see how it works. Also replaced trans main and countershaft bearings and seals. Needs pto seal, but cannot get pump to budge on shaft. Have a 2 ton bottle Jack against shaft thru pump hole and chained onto pump. Have been trying to soak and beat/pry but no luck. Any suggestions? Thanks 

I don't get what you are referring to with pump hole working of pto shaft. As far as the seal on brake, it is not a big job to get that shaft out if it really needs to come out. The biggest job is getting the wheel and tire off and if you have a hoist or loader no problem there either. I always worked through the pto , pushed axle out or remove whole axle housing. You will probably find a bad bearing on axle anyway. 

Now, as far as play in that brake shaft, some things you have to take into consideration. End play back and forth is normal. There is nothing to hold that bearing completely solid from moving in and out a little. The other play, up and down is more difficult to diagnose as you have to carefully determine if the play is in the ball bearing or if the shaft is moving up and down on the inner end. Realize that the inside end of that brake shaft is supported by the side gearing in the differential . When the differential wears, that gear moves up and down and that movement is often diagnosed as being in the bearing when it is not. Really nothing you can do about it except replace a WHOLE lot of parts with unworn ones.

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1 hour ago, 1958560 said:

I've replaced axle bearings on 4/560s before and knew that axle had to come out some to get bull gear off, so I expected the same here. We decided to put on new seal and see how it works. Also replaced trans main and countershaft bearings and seals. Needs pto seal, but cannot get pump to budge on shaft. Have a 2 ton bottle Jack against shaft thru pump hole and chained onto pump. Have been trying to soak and beat/pry but no luck. Any suggestions? Thanks 

What pump?

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Pete think he has a PTO hydraulic pump for loader with splines all the way through. Trying to push pto shaft from pump or pump from shaft from rear with chains to base of jack. Dave

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5 hours ago, DWV said:

Pete think he has a PTO hydraulic pump for loader with splines all the way through. Trying to push pto shaft from pump or pump from shaft from rear with chains to base of jack. Dave

Exactly, I'm afraid to use heat for fear of ruining a seal and still not able to get pump off, not sure if I could even get heat where it needs to go to free pump from shaft 

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I'll add another vote for taking the top plate off and doing it right,  it sounds like you have one or more bad bearings on the differential assembly. 

 

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