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IH500 CRAWLER LOADER BRAKE HELP


Joneebgood
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On 6/8/2017 at 8:00 AM, Dave McCallister said:

Have you ever tried spraying or painting this stuff on something R99 or is it just dippable?

D

Dave:  I have only used it as a dip, but the instructions say that you can use saturated towels or sponges layed on surfaces as well. You have to keep the surface wet.   Use a spray bottle to keep the towels soak in Evaporust.  The rust turns to a soft black compound that washes right off.  You then dip it or spray it with Evaporust to hold it for up to 2 weeks with no flash rust.  It works really good though and does not damage machined or ground surfaces as an acid would.  Another big plus is it does not attack non-ferrous metals so you can dip an assembled part in it. I used it in rehabing a big old Kearney and Trecker indexing head with good success.  The next think I will attempt is to dip a seized clutch in it.  Or maybe I will fill the main clutch compartment on a D2 I have that has had a mouse nest in it so long it froze up the mechanism.  I have had it soaking in kerosene for two years now with no success!  I honestly think the Evaporust may loosen it up!

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X2 on evaporust ,  keep it in stock at all times

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  • 1 month later...

Hello, John and all; I FINALLY have the machine back together and operating!  A very long process but mostly because I had trouble finding the time to work on it.

 

I buttoned it up yesterday, started it, and it steers nice and easy!  Very smooth!  You cannot believe the feeling of sitting there and knowing I had it all apart and that it must be back together correctly.  I dragged some large logs for an hour or so and everything was uneventful.

 

The left clutch, which was the rusted side, works with just a touch of the lever and the brakes seem fine.  The right side still seems to bind as if the brake is dragging before the clutch is fully released.  I am playing with the various adjustments on that and will see if I can improve it.  The brake band adjusting nut on the left side is barely on the stud enough to be flush with the end of the stud but the right side has almost ¾” or more of stud showing through it.  That was driving me nuts until I looked at my “before” photos and that was the way it was adjusted with the old linings as well.  So, something is just a little larger or different between the bands and probably has always been.

 

Getting the adjustment acceptable on the height of the clutch fingers took several assemble and disassemble processes.  I couldn’t get the height even close on the left side until I put that extra disc back in where I had found it.  Dave was right that someone had added it previously to get the correct thickness of the clutch pack.  The right side fingers were just too low and tight but I did get that assembly thicker by swapping the newest fibre discs from the left to the right side.  If John hadn’t told me about putting one disc BEHIND the C-clip I still would be fighting with this.

 

I couldn’t get the finger height under the 4 ¾” maximum shown in the shop manual but I did get both sides to between 5” and 5 1/16” which is still probably better than they were before.  The clutch adjustment shaft assemblies were screwed all the way out before and, although still out quite a way, definitely have some adjustment left now.  There were several broken housing bolts from the last mechanic that I drilled and tapped so I know this is back together tighter than before.  Maybe things will loosen up as I use the machine more but, for now, I am thrilled with the way it operates.

 

I owe all my satisfaction to the help I received from everyone on this forum. THANK YOU ALL!  I recommend lots of before and after photos to anyone attempting this as they gave me piece of mind on several occasions. Once I get this wood cut and split I will make time to sit at the beach!

JIM

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  • 3 months later...
  • 1 year later...

Maybe slightly off topic and total noob question...

1972 IH500c

How do I check the bevel gear (ring and pinion) oil level.  Owners manual shows a plug on the top?  I found some grease fittings under some pipe plugs, but no oil level...

 

Appreciate any input and forgive my clearly inexperienced question.

 

Bruce

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  • 7 months later...

Attempting first time  steering clutch repair on an IH 500 Crawler. Left side pinion came out with homemade slide hammer.  Other side is much more difficult.  Now trying to take apart clutch pack while instead machine and get some heat on it. 

I cleaned up metal discs in 1st clutch pack  they are somewhat pitted, wondering if I should replace them all with new or if they can be re-used.  Fiber discs half are stripped of teeth others brittle so I am replacing all of those.

All the posts and pictures on this forum are of great help.  Thanks to all who contribute!

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Question about pinion Thrust Washers.  On one side Pinion came of with a silver steel washer that rode against brass bearing washer/race (not sure of term).  Other side did not have this silver washer, just had the pinion gear up against the brass washer/race so washer has not been on the past 15 rears I've used the machine.

Is the silver washer the thrust washer described in the manuals or is that a spacer the previous owner included on one side? 

 

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Hi Ray,  Sorry but I don't remember what washers I encountered.  I was so worried about dropping them into the final drive that I pulled the shaft almost all the way out and that gave me room to thread a wire though the washer or washers and into the transmission.  I made a loop of the wire up and out the top and left the washers in place.  I am not sure they even dislodged.  The 500 service manual describes  a thrust washer, against an inner thrust bearing and also an inner bearing.  The inner thrust bearing could be the brass spacer you are describing?  I will attach the blowup from the manual in case you don't already have it as well as the pages from the parts book.  Hope this helps, JIM

Final Drive.jpg

Parts List 108.jpg

Parts List 109.jpg

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Thank you so much Jim.  These diagrams were very helpful.  My machine was missing the thrust washer on one side then.  I ran a wire as you did based on one of your posts, but only one side had the thrust washer.  The brass is the inner thrust bushing.   I'll see if I can find a washer to match the one I have when I reassemble hopefully next week. -Ray

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  • 11 months later...

Update – I am still not happy with the brakes on my IH500

I used my IH500 with Drott loader several times last summer mostly cleaning up brush and dragging trees.  I am clearing a large area and got an early start this spring clearing the site of trees and stumps.  My machine gets the job done but it seems like I really have to haul on the brake lever to turn right.  That brake band just barely grabs.  The clutch packs were cleaned up and reinstalled two years ago so they are not the best but it does seem to push good.  I did install relined brake bands at the same time but they just never seemed to grab as quick as they should.   I have both clutch release arms adjusted out as far as possible and I feel like they need more adjustment still.  I hate pulling so hard on the brake lever as I know that must mean I am jamming the throw out bearing in farther than necessary at the same time.

The brakes don’t grab well using the foot pedals either so it acts like the linings are not thick enough or everything is stretched. But, I cannot tighten the brake bands much more without them dragging on the drum.

I just don’t feel like the steering levers are pulling back far enough to engage properly.  I see there is a key aligning the clutch arm to the clutch shaft so I doubt if that has moved on the shaft but that is kind of what it acts like.

I wondered if its possible to purchase a short, ½” NF coupler with male end to use in between the two halves of the release shaft to give me more adjustment?  I appreciate any thoughts or suggestions. 

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Lengthening the release shaft will cause the throwout bearing to release the steering clutch sooner with less lever travel.  I had to make new ones, so I made mine longer...but part of my problem is worn bushings on the vertical release shaft.  Keep in mind that there are 2 functions going on at once: clutch release followed by brake application...and both are controlled by different mechanisms using the same levers.  If you are only adjusting the brake band tension, you may have to adjust the bolts at the base of the levers and back off the brake bands.  I didn't read through all the replys, so I don't know if I said this before or not...but I changed the geometry at my brake bands...to get quicker reaction after clutch release.  I have only adjusted my bands 1x in 2 years since the change.481643102_brakemod.thumb.JPG.5976f727f961545652a10db29b9e0409.JPG

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Thank you, John; I had just attached this question to my old posts about changing my clutch discs and TO bearings.  I replaced the brake bands at that same time but really thought that was going to be straightforward.  I have always been confused about the adjustment of the bolts at the base of the brake levers.  I assume there is a procedure and I think I might have followed it at one time with no improvement.  I put my shop manual someplace “safe” last year and am still looking for it.  Things get harder to find as I get older.

When you write “I had to make new ones, so I made mine longer” are you referring to lengthening the adjustable release shaft that actuates the brakes?  If I can figure out a way to do that I thought I would give it a try first.  I have also always wondered about changing the geometry at the top of the brake bands as there doesn’t seem to be enough travel there but really don’t know where to begin with that.  I will keep at it.

Thanks again for your reply.

JIM

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I made mine from 1/2" round bar stock.  I kept the profile tooling for the ball end.  Instead of using hex stock, I reamed out a 1/2" nut and welded it to the bar stock for wrenching flats.  I can turn a pair out in about and hour.  I have drawings too.  Let me know; I'd be happy to make you a pair.

male_link.gif

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Thank you for the offer, John.  I may take you up on that.  It looks like your overall length is 1/2" over my stock link.  Currently I am right out to the end of the threads on the bolt .   Did 1/2"  give you the extra that you needed?  I don't think there is room to add any more than 3/4" anyway?

First, I am going to loosen all the bolts and try and follow the book exactly on all the clearances and see if that makes a difference.  My levers certainly have way too much play and the brake foot pedal does nothing so I should be able to improve on something.  I will let you know how I make out.

 

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The bolts on the brake mechanism have jamb nuts to prevent them from loosening.  You may find that you need to remove the bolt and install in the opposite direction (using the head to activate the brakes) instead of the threaded end of the bolt.  I also went "by the book" and don't remember having good luck...that's why I reversed the bolts.  I can take a picture of mine tonight.  Yes, 1/2" longer was perfect and it wasn't maxed out.  I think with everything brand new (little or no slop in bushings, etc) the brakes would work right as designed.   At 52 years old, I need new bushings and a little adjustment too!  LOL.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi John, We had my grandchildren here for the last ten days so didn’t get much time to work on the crawler until now.  I opened up the final drive covers and tightened the brake bands.  The left was steering okay and only took a turn or so but the right side took many turns.  I know the book talks about a lock position and then backing it off a specific amount but all I see is a big nut on the long bolt.  I tightened it up quite a bit and it was working great forward but wouldn’t back up without binding really bad.  I just kept loosening until it didn’t have any interference when backing and left the adjustment at that point.  It seems to work okay although it may work itself loose eventually.

I then adjusted all the bolts and stops on the levers and foot pedal until I got as close as I could to the factory settings.  The brakes seem to be working good enough for now but there is definitely a lot of slop and wear at each joint.  None of these adjustments really made a difference on the clutch links. They are still backed out as far as possible but seem to be working fine so I am going to work the machine a while and see what changes or loosens up.

Thanks for all your help. 

JIM

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