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IH500 CRAWLER LOADER BRAKE HELP


Joneebgood
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While you have it apart, closely inspect the lug in the bottom of the housing that the brake band is positioned on.  When I did mine, I now believe they were worn...possibly with a taper on one side instead of being a round post with a flat end.  I think (I may be wrong) that this is an insert that is bolted into the clutch housing near the drain hole.  The reason I bring this up is Coyotecrossing has the opposite steering issue that I do, in that mine steers perfectly in reverse and his only in forward.  Sunday I readjusted my clutches and brakes exactly per the manual...Mine now steers perfectly in forward...BUT WILL NOT BACK UP...the brakes are applying on their own in reverse.  ...back the brake band lug...my theory is that if it is tapered on the end, as the band contracts, it will ride on the taper and wedge the brakes.  If I back off my brake adjustment, I feel that I will be right back where I started.  The only other way around this is to change the geometry of the linkage so that the same lever movement causes greater brake band contraction.  One more thing, be sure there is little to no slop between the clutch fork shaft and the bushing in the bevel drive housing.  If you have fore-aft movement you may not get enough rotation to properly release the clutches before the brake applies...or you will run out of adjustment in the expanding link between the lever and the pivot.  Bottom line, make sure all the components for clutch/brake actuation are as close to new as possible.

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HI John,  I was actually wondering about that  brake anchor pin myself.  Mine are both definitely worn egg shaped although maybe not severe enough to cause a problem.  The local IH dealer claimed he found a part number and did a nationwide search and located two of them at $85 each.  Boy, they have no shame.  I don't have his part number with me to compare to the manual but I am still not spending that kind of money.  BTW, check my attached photo.  My pin looks like a lug bolt with a locking nut under it and nothing like the shop manual.  There does seem to be an outline of a hole just below it but there is surely no flat plate and bolts.  Maybe it goes up from the bottom and just screws into the bottom of the case?  If that's the case maybe you can get yours out without breaking down the entire tractor again.

You mentioned that you had relined your own brake bands.  Next week I will take them to Fleet Pride and get a quote from them for relining.  My good one has 1/4" of material left in most places and Steve Dygert guessed that new ones were only about 5/16"?  Do you think there is room to ask for 3/8"?  The thicker the band the better I can adjust it maybe.  Can you tell me what material you decided to use on yours.  Brass wire impregnated or ?

Also, I hate to keep asking but I am replacing both throw out bearings and was quoted 3 times as much for the guide sleeve that they ride on.  I assume I can reuse my old sleeves but maybe the bearing is pressed on the sleeve?  I didn't look close but it looks pretty tight.

Thank you all for all your great help and advice.

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you could easily make item # 29 ......85 bucks is ridiculous. You can see the 2 holes to bolt that to in the picture.  Steve Dygert is a great guy to deal with. I bought all my stuff from him.

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I bought brass wire impregnated, woven material from McMaster Carr.  It came the correct width and cut it to length.  Got the brass rivets from them also.  I honestly don't remember if I got 5/16 or 3/8, but I was thinking along the same lines as you...thicker will give you more wear.  There certainly is enough adjustment to accommodate either thickness.  The trickiest part was getting my drill press adjusted to get the correct counter bore depth for the rivet heads.  I used my bands as a template and clamped everything together around the clutch housing.  Then drilled my holes in the friction material, disassembled and c'bored the inside for the rivets.  Be sure you (or they) use brass rivets and you don't want the rivet heads to wear into the casting as the lining wears. 

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#29 bolts to the underside of the outside of the case. My T-5 has one that is obviously home made. When I took the machine apart, there were no release bearing sleeves. I got some seamless tubing and made them on the lathe. I used release bearings for a ford pick up

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You are making some good progress, good decision to fix everything right while you are in there. You won't regret doing that.

Thanks for adding the photos.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi, just an update.  I am getting closer to reassembly.  I took 220 grit on the palm sander to the fiber discs just lightly to break the glaze.  I think they are fine.  The one that was doubled up in error never rotated, as it was against another fiber disc, so that one looks like new, part number and all.  I haven’t worked on the steel discs yet.  They have some heavy growth of rust in a lot of places so they may be a challenge.

 

I took my brake bands to FleetPride about an hour away and they replaced the lining and I had them back in about a week.  It cost just under $150 each but that was still way less than I could find them anywhere else.  The technician was sure the old lining was the original – from the way it was installed, I guess.  I told him I was leaning towards a thicker webbing but he convinced me the ¼” had lasted almost 50 years and the replacement is the heavy lining with the brass reinforcement so why mess with a good thing.  I hope I made the right decision.  I will have to drill the lining for the mounting post they must fit over.

 

Both throwout bearings were noisy and growling and the one actually stuck part way around several times so I bought new ones.  I had to use a big socket of the correct diameter to drive the cast iron carrier out of the old bearing but the new bearings just slide right on.  They don’t wobble but they do go on and off easily.  I guess a couple of good pulls on the steering clutch levers will probably make them stay in place.

 

I still have a lot of sanding and wire brushing to do on parts before they are clean enough to reassemble but… I am making progress.  Hold CRTL and hit "+" to zoom in on the photos.

 

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Not sure the bearings should be that loose. I would use some loctite and lock them on. Have heard of TO bearings sliding off and setting askew and locking up a clutch. Taking it apart once is bad enough let alone twice. 

For what it's worth. John

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  • 2 weeks later...

I finally found time to clean up all the clutch parts.  After sanding off all the globs of rust I finished the steel discs with 40 then 80 and finally 120 on the palm sander.  They are all nice and flat now but definitely very pitted.  The left side was the worse as that side must have been very wet at one time and everything was coated in rust.  The hardest part to clean was the inside surface of the drum itself.  The parts book shows that the base is a separate part but I don’t think they were coming apart.  I used a 2” sanding mandrel and several grits of discs and pads and shined it up as best as I could.

 

I reassembled both clutch packs leaving out the extra fiber disc that I had found in the left side. The first two photos below are the right side, which cleaned up pretty well.  All the fiber discs were pretty near full thickness.  The next two are the left side.  The steel discs are very pitted and the fiber discs are thinner and showing quite a bit of wear except for the one that was doubled up.  That one is new, at least on one side.

 

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But......., something must be assembled wrong.  The first two photos are the components of the left side and the assembled clutch pack.  As you can see by the stack of washers, the distance under the clutch fork on the left side is now 13/16” but the right side clutch is only 9/16”.  A full ¼” difference!  I checked a photo of the left side before I took it apart and the fingers are noticeably higher now since I have taken out the extra fibre disc.   But, those clutch fingers seem appropriate now, to me, as they should have some movement once the T/O bearing pushes on them.

 

The second two photos below are the right side.  I couldn’t locate a clear photo of the assembly before I removed it but I cannot imagine the fingers were this tight before.  They are not even level but turned inward as if they are already compressed by the T/O bearing.  The steel and fiber discs are probably thicker and in better shape on the right side but that shouldn’t make so much difference in the angle of the forks.  Also there is red paint visible on the springs on the right side maybe indicating they have been replaced once but, if the left side hadn’t been so rusty, maybe I would see red paint there also.

 

I have had this apart several times and everything is loose and seems assembled properly.  The only disconcerting thing is shown in the last photo taken from the back of the right assembly.  That space between the splines on the driven hub and the splines on the drum itself is much larger on the right assembly.  I don’t see any way to change the location of the driven hub?  It just lays in the drum and you stack discs on it, don’t you?  I was pretty sure I kept the parts for each side separate but, maybe, I could try swapping the hubs although they do look identical to me.  I would be grateful for any suggestions.

 

Thanks, JIM

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Maybe someone has adjusted the clutch fingers previously??

Or possibly machine work has been done on the base plate ??

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I'm with Kevin, maybe someone just adjusted the fingers . If there was an extra fiber in there then you know someone has fooled with it before. That's the way, as you know, to make up for worn discs is just to put an extra one in. Perhaps they didn't do that on the right side, but adjusted the fingers down.

Look and see if you can tell any difference in the adjustment screw on the fingers from one side to the other. Count threads if you can.

If you're sure everything is good to go, the proper number of discs are in there and you started stacking with the right kind, adjust them up to where they need to be.


D

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I know there has been more than one post on the infamous clutch finger adjustments ,  and more than one

person has attempted and even successfully accomplished the forbidden adjustment :D

Does anyone have the specs on setting up the cover while not assembled ??

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Thanks for the photo, John.  That's exactly what I need.  I don't seem to have those pages in my manuals .  I was able to find the rest of the clutch section on an earlier post.  I must admit I now know part of my problem.  I never realized that you start with one fiber disc BEHIND the c-clip on the hub!  That never entered my mind and I would swear there wasn't one there when I disassembled them but.........   That will change the dimensions I am sure.  Now I just have to find time to take these apart again.  Between work and too many plans on every weekend I have trouble finding a block of time to concentrate on the crawler.  I will post some measurements once I get it reassembled correctly.

Thanks again to everyone for their help.

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The order of components is pretty critical...and if someone didn't put it back together correctly, how would you have known when you took it apart?  Good catch!  ...and good luck.

As a side note, I'm still not happy with my brake adjustment.  It is not to the "book", but it's the only way I can get it to function correctly in forward.  However, after a couple of hours, the braking fades going forward.  I will keep playing with things and if I come up with a solution (more band movement with the steering handle), I will let you all know.  My goal is to change the mechanism geometry at the brake band.  If it works, at least Coyotecrossing and I will have machines that work equally well in forward and reverse!

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I have used a product called "metal prep" it is a phosphoric acid product and it is meant to etch the metal and keep it from rusting until painted. I have had motorcycle fenders treated and left without paint that didn't rust for years. Another comment I believe that the brake anchor pin has a lot to do with the correct steering of the 500's. I don't remember my 500C having a bottom anchor pin I believe the anchor pin is on the top on 500C.(newer design?) and it steers beautiful and equal in forward and reverse.   I truly had to reread the adjusting procedure many times with the service manual and machine together making sure all of the terminology and parts were identified correctly. I had something adjusted incorrectly at first, but then after readjusting it to the books specifications the machine works great.

Good luck, Kurt

 

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