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IH500 CRAWLER LOADER BRAKE HELP


Joneebgood
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I did get some use out of the machine this summer but realize the brake bands are shot.  Winter almost came and went and I still have not started working on it. 

The previous owner, from new I was told, had a greenhouse business and mostly used the crawler loader to mix different soils and spread it in his fields to start his plants.  He did have a shale bank but I was led to believe he mostly went back and forth in a small area and that is why the brakes are worn out.  All the adjustments are maxed out and there is still not much brake.  I am pulling so far back I feel I must be putting too much strain on the pressure plate and throwout bearing.

I don't want to break the track and pull the final drive as then I am sure I will wind up replacing everything.  I only use the machine occasionally around my property so i don't want to spend a fortune plus that job is beyond my patience and skill level at my age.  The shop manual only speaks of removing the pinion and doing the whole job but I wonder if I couldn't just replace the brake band from the top?  It looks like the band is easily accessible from the top once the housing covers are removed but the parts manual shows a "brake band anchor pin" which looks to be bolted in the bottom of the housing.  I assume you would have to pick up the entire clutch assembly to free the brake band from the housing?  If that is the case the brake band is pinned in place until the entire assembly is removed.

I was hoping someone else had already tried to replace the brake bands and could offer some guidance.

Thanks for any help you can offer.

 

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my brakes don't work well, even though the steering clutches and brakes were redone before I bought the machine.  Based on the manual, the brake band sits on a pin on the bottom.  Therefore to remove the brake band you must remove the whole assembly (clutch and brake).   I'm like you, I was hoping for an easy fix.  The guy I relied on for advice died  last year and I haven't found anyone else near by.  acbjohn on this site may be able to offer advice.  He has been helpful with other 500 problems.  

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Hi, I believe the 500 brakes and clutches are similar to the T-5. I have had the T-5 brakes and clutches out and it did not seem like a big or hard job, but I work as a heavy duty mechanic so I am used to that kind of work. The anchor pin comes out of the bottom easily. I changed all the bearings and seals when I was in there. 

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There is a boss welded to the bottom of the brake band that has a hole to locate on the pin in the bottom of the housing.  In order to remove the band, you must lift the steering clutch assembly.  To do that, remove the pinion bearing cap through the hole in the sprocket, thread a puller into the end of the pinion (1/2-20 thread IIRC), and with any luck the spline won't be stuck too bad in the steering clutch cover.  Now, be very careful, because there is a thrust bearing on the inboard side of the pinion gear teeth.  If you drop that into the final drive housing...well...sorry, but you've got a lot more disassembly ahead.  I chased a wire through from the inside following the pinion so as to not drop the thrust bearing.  My 500 will turn on a dime in reverse but forget about even stopping going forward.  Coyotecrossing's machine is the opposite.  Typically a band brake is self-energizing in one direction.  I don't understand how one machine can be so different than another...Anyway, I've gone through my adjustments and everything is per the book.  One idea I had was to change the geometry of the linkage so a shorter handle travel resulted in more band clamping movement.  I think there is enough leverage that once the clutch releases, the band will grab if you move it enough.  We aren't stopping a loaded tractor trailer here!  I know that the bushings for my clutch fork shaft are worn and need to be replaced.  If you pull the clutch/brake handle and watch the linkage move, you can see how a little slop here and there really adds up.  PM me if you want more, or I can go on all day here and provide plenty of boring reading for the members!  Oh, and don't get in the seat of newer machine or you won't want to go back!  There is something to brag about by having both hands and feet going at once in an open station, tracked machine!

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...when operating correctly, it is a great machine.  Mine is currently finishing a 900 foot driveway doing cut and fill...parked here along side my other antiques!...but hey, they run...and run well!

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acbjohn, I glad you responded I knew you would have more info than I had.  I had hoped to pull the seat, fenders and covers off the clutches to see if I can see what the problem is with the brakes but that hasn't happened.  I still think part of the problem is in the brake linkage.

 

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Yes, thank you abcjohn and Coyote.  Great explanation.  I figured there would be no way to reach that pivot without complete disassembly but did have hope.  When I was younger I would have already had this torn down but it is really beyond me now.

Yes, this machine runs great and with the 4 in 1 bucket will do anything I need done around the place so I don’t expect to upgrade to anything else.

I am sure the bands must be shot as the adjustable links are extended to their last thread on both ends.  So far extended that they are almost loose and bend when fully pulled back.  No matter how tight the levers are made it just pulls those adjusters and the brake lever so far back I feel like it must be turning the throw out bearing inside out and still no drag on the brake shoes.   I cannot justify a compete rebuild of the clutches and everything else that probably should be made perfect but sure would be happy to limp along a few more years if the brakes worked better.

I am in the Hudson Valley of NY near Kingston and don’t know of any close IH dealers.  I would have to pay to have the machine hauled some place anyway.   I wonder how I could find someone who would come here and give me an estimate and, hopefully, tear it down in my yard.  There must be someone between New Jersey and Albany, NY that moonlights on tractors?

Thanks again for all your help.

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Ask local contractors who their mobile construction equipment mechanics are . check local craigslist for ads ,

Ask farmers , When I did field service full time I would travel up to 100 miles from home base

 

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Boy, if you were a little closer, I would be there in a heartbeat.  I'm in Horseheads.  I made my own bands and made templates when I did it. I sheared extra material for the bands in case I needed to make an extra set.  As for the links...mine were broken, so I machined new male ends.  I made a profile cutter to cut the ball and made the threaded portion 1/2" longer.  I have lots of adjustment now.   I also made drawings so if you knew a local machine shop they could make them pretty quick (my South Bend is a 10" and production work is rather slow).  Instead of using hex stock, I used round, then bored out a 1/2" nut and welded it on so I had wrench flats.  When these machines were built, no one must have anticipated we would still be pushing dirt with them 50 years later!!

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi I am new to red power and have a 1967 500 diesel bullgrader. Just finished doing brakes and clutches not that hard to do once you line up the holes in sprocket for bull gear removal. Turned out the clutches we're rusted and stuck to flywheel and not going into free spin so no amount of brake tightening could stop it or turn it. 

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The TD5/500 steering is one of the easier ones to replace.Some JD & Massey crawlers are a lot more involved... you need to remove the track & final drive .

Before removing the pinion,that Thrust Washer musn't be dropped into the Final.58bd1a05270d5_500Brake.thumb.JPG.eb9b3faad1a629d968f424b23c5d24f6.JPG

John @ steeringclutch.com has all the parts & his website also has parts diagrams,etc.He's a good guy to deal with.

Good luck with the repair.

.

Copy of Robs TD5 Parts (1) (Small).jpg

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In 2012 I replaced the steering clutch fibers and cleaned up to steel disk. They were rusted and I sanded them and reused them. Put on new shoes and dozer steered ok but not great. It sat for awhile and started steering sporadic again. Adjusted linkage no help pushed against a tree pulled both handles and tracks just dug holes. Could stop on a grade with foot brake and clutch disengaged or out of gear. Never had to remove track to fix just seat and bull gears and covers. Once these were off you have to push the inside shaft to one side to lift the steering clutch assembly with brake band. Then push inside shaft the other way to remove the other side. I cleaned and painted pressure plate and housing to help   stop the rust. Also this time I went with new steel disk it steers like a dream with very little pull on handles and a lot of brake adjustment left to use. The money spent really paid off in satisfaction for how well it turns now. Attached are some of the pictures of the job.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi John and all;  I finally found some time to start to dismantle the crawler.  I will post some photos.   

This has been apart before as evidenced by the tons of blue RTV all over everything.  They must have even dipped the bolts in the stuff because I had a heck of a time getting some of them out.  The ones that were too long and went into the housing had a bid hard dollop of RTV on the inside that made them **** to get out.  Loosen half a turn, tighten 3/4, loosen 3/4, tighten 1 turn, etc.  slow going but it is apart now.  I have not  touched the bull gears yet.

Compared to online photos of brake lines these should be fair - maybe 1/4" of material left but look at the wear on the right steel disc.  It actually feels like there is a lip on the outboard edge and the brake has  worn a bit of a trough.  The left side is just pitted and nasty.  Looks like it must have been wet at one time although it seems to be dry and pretty clean right now.  I looked for drain plugs but couldn't really see anything that I recognized so I don't know if they are still in or not.

I guess I need to continue to disassemble but I was hoping to see no brake lining left at all IMG8489.thumb.jpg.10873c7fc0725f8bb2902c78cf326c39.jpgas that is what it steered like.

 

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They're out!

The pinion shaft on the right side came right out with just a little tugging with my hand.  The left side was rusted fast to the clutch.  I banged on it with a slide hammer for a very long time before it finally moved enough that I could get some Liquid Wrench on the shaft.  Then I tapped it back in and beat on the slide hammer some more.  What a pain.

I assume the thrust washer that I was told not to drop into the final drive was the bronze bearing surface by the inner bearing?  They were both tight to the housing so I ran a wire through and tied it off just incase they come loose later.  The final drives look full of oil to just below the pinion bearings and all the bearings look well greased.  Just lots of blue RTV on everything.

The left clutch was pretty rusty although the housing was dry and the drains were open on both sides.  I would guess the plates are fused together and no amount of braking would have stopped that side.  The brake ban was down to the rivets in one spot so someone had been pulling it hard for a long time.  The right side brake was at least 75% and looked good.  I will send them both away to be relined.

I now have to study how best to disassemble the clutch assembly without doing further damage.  I am sure at least one side will need a lot of parts - cleaning won't be enough there.  I got it apart I may as well fix it right.  Here is a few photos.

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joneebegood, just unscrew the 6 nuts from the bolts and the clutch will come apart. You have oil on them so hit the threads with a wire wheel and you're good to go.  If they do break it's only a bolt so you shouldn't do any further damage or have any trouble. The pinion shafts get a liberal coating of anti seize when reinstalling for the next mechanic's sake. 

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Back the nuts and bolts off equally a bit at a time ;)

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Thank you  both.  I couldn't find any servicing instructions for the clutch pack and I did wonder how much spring tension there must be on disassembly.  I will work on it some night this week and see what I find,

 

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I finally found time to open up the clutch assemblies.  Very interesting.  The right side must have been replaced fairly recently as you can see in the photo. The discs are all quite thick and have crisp edges.

The left side was giving me the most trouble and part of the reason is evident in the photo of the steel and fibre discs.  There was an extra fibre disc in the clutch assembly!  7 steel and 7 fibre.  It's easy to tell which one because one is almost full thickness and the others are worn much thinner than the right side.  The extra disc was stuck fast on the hub.  It was stuck at the teeth but they don't really seem any different than the teeth on the other discs but, this disc never moved in or out.  One side of it has almost no wear and you can still read a part number xx5848R2 07184 (date code?) That extra disc made the clutch pack 3/16" or so thicker than it should have been.  The clutch must never have been able to release all the way?

The right brake band is serviceable although I should replace them both while its open ( best price so far $175 ea!).  The left brake is down to the rivets on one end.

The pressure plate face and all the steel discs are really nasty and the left brake drum has some pretty deep pits and craters.  Is there a easy way to resurface all the steel discs or do I just put a fine disc on the disc grinder and have at them?

Both throw out bearings were dry and rattled and even bound up when you tried to rotate them so I definitely will find new ones.

One of the fingers on the left pressure plate was loose and rattled a little but, when I took the clutch assembly apart all three fingers were the same height.  The springs and retaining spring seems fine so I guess I will just live with it as I don't see what needs replacing.

Oh well, nothing major broken.  Now it's time to try and source some parts.

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IMG8519 right side.jpg

IMG8517left side.jpg

IMG8513 extra disc.jpg

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You should be able to get clutch plates from tractorparts.com (General Gear & Machine) or use www.steeringclutch.com.  You will need parts numbers but they are good to deal with.  I usually call them (800.531.9021).  I think they may have brake bands, as well.

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