ROPS frames fitted to older tractors

[Michael Halsall]

Here is one of those "Australia compared to the USA" questions.

In Australia all farm tractors are a required to have a Roll Over Protection System  (ROPS)

Older tractors, if they are used for farming, are required to have retro-fitted ROPS frames where available.

There is even a frame made to fit the McCormick W-6 tractor ! (made by Bare-Co)

In the USA it appears only tractors built after a certain date need rollover protection.

Are frames available for older tractors if requested by the operator? A lot of older US tractors seemed to fitted with "sun-shade" frames which are more a weather shield than a ROPS

I have seen an American photo of a Farmall 140 (late 1970s) fitted a four point mounted ROPS frame, but other older tractors, in photos, never seen have them fitted.

Regards from Michael H.

[brewcrew]

There is no requirement to retrofit tractors with a rops. But there are programs available at least in some places at some times. They require a certified rops, which are almost always aftermarket. I think jd offers a certified original rops for the 4020, but I don't think IH offers anything.

[Andy578]

nope it's not required but kits are pretty available. i've seen some retro-fitted but i'd have to say the vast majority aren't. i only have 1 tractor left without ROPS(IH 656) and don't really feel the need to have it added. the tractor isn't used much these days and i don't really have any hills to worry about anyway. 

[ny bill o]

i think it was 1978 that rops were required on tractors over 80 hp (hence the 786 w/o rops). there are aftermarket rops available in some states for some tractors and programs like ropsr4u.com to assist in the purchase. CIH has the !distinction! of having by far the most outright costly rops of any companies (think 3-4x more than some). jd and kubota make them available at cost or close and cih says tough s*** buy a new tractor. i have done 6 so far- 1466, 1206, 826, 656, 504, 240. i have more that need them but none listed for example farmall 560, or oliver 2150 which could really use one since we level silage in the bunks with it..

[DR.EVIL]

8 hours ago, brewcrew said:

I think jd offers a certified original rops for the 4020, but I don't think IH offers anything.

BUT......Does JD replace gas caps for FREE????   Deere NEVER used the tall triple baffle cap and always had a fuel tank over the engine until the New Generation tractors.  Never heard of a Deere program to replace any & all gas caps for FREE.

As to ROPS, SAGINAW COUNTY TRACTOR PARTS advertises in RPM that they make & sell ROPS for 544 to 1566's,  $1200-$1400.  Same company that used to make 3-pt hitches.  Bet they fit older tractors too.

[bitty]

Just now, DOCTOR EVIL said:

BUT......Does JD replace gas caps for FREE????   Deere NEVER used the tall triple baffle cap and always had a fuel tank over the engine until the New Generation tractors.  Never heard of a Deere program to replace any & all gas caps for FREE.

As to ROPS, SAGINAW COUNTY TRACTOR PARTS advertises in RPM that they make & sell ROPS for 544 to 1566's,  $1200-$1400.  Same company that used to make 3-pt hitches.  Bet they fit older tractors too.

I am not sure that the Saginaw rops is certified or not. My brother just called about a pair from there . We will check if they were as I have one from a dealer that came from there originally.

[RichardDSalyer]

12 hours ago, Michael Halsall said:

Are frames available for older tractors if requested by the operator? A lot of older US tractors seemed to fitted with "sun-shade" frames which are more a weather shield than a ROPS

Regards from Michael H.

Saf T Cab ROPS

[RichardDSalyer]

10 hours ago, brewcrew said:

There is no requirement to retrofit tractors with a rops. But there are programs available at least in some places at some times. They require a certified rops, which are almost always aftermarket. I think jd offers a certified original rops for the 4020, but I don't think IH offers anything.

ROPS Information

ROPS Standards and Certification for Wheeled Agricultural Tractors

In the United States, the federal government does not regulate agricultural tractors and other farm equipment, unlike automobiles, which are regulated by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) of the U.S. Department of Transportation. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) does not regulate tractors and farm equipment, despite what some people believe. OSHA regulates employers; whether it is a punch press in a factory, a forklift, or a tractor, it is the employer who is responsible for meeting OSHA standards, not the equipment manufacturer.

OSHA does not certify ROPS. It is a common misperception that OSHA certifies ROPS. It is up to the ROPS manufacturer or supplier to certify that a ROPS meets a given standard. There are ROPS performance standards from OSHA, SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers), ASABE (American Society of Agricultural and Biological Engineers, formerly ASAE), CSA (Canadian Standards Association), ISO (International Organization for Standardization), and other international organizations, economic unions, and nations.

Regardless of the standard to which the ROPS is certified by the manufacturer or supplier, it should have a label specifying which standard was met.

Not all ROPS standards require seat belts. The OSHA, SAE, ASABE, and CSA standards require seat belts and seat belt mountings to be tested as part of the standard. The common standards used for ROPS certification in North America are OSHA 1928.52 or 1928.53; SAE J1194 or J2194; ASAE S383, which was withdrawn and replaced with SAE J1194; ASAE S478 (for compact utility tractors; also approved as an ANSI standard by the American National Standards Institute); and CSA B352.0 and 352.1. These standards require testing the seat belt mounting. They also require that on a suspended seat, which means the seat is on a suspension and moves up and down as the tractor goes over bumps, the seat belt must be mounted to the seat to move with the seat. In other words, when the operator buckles and tightens the seat belt, the belt keeps the same tightness as the seat moves up and down, and the seat and seat belt anchorage must be able to withstand the forces generated during an overturn.

However, the ISO standard for ROPS, ISO 5700, does not require seat belts. Thus a ROPS certified to ISO 5700 would not require a seat belt and would not require any seat belt supplied with the ROPS to be mounted to a suspended seat. Not having a seat belt attached to a suspended seat would not meet OSHA requirements.
 

[495man]

Always wondering on these ROPS retrofits if people put seat belts on as well.

Have a MF here, has a factory made MF roll bar, but did not have a seatbelt!  Seat was replaced at sometime prior to purchase, so hard to say if it ever had a seatbelt. (It does now) 

 

[Jeff-C-IL]

Boy--you want to get into a yard with a bunch of angry pitbulls, suggest that all tractors (including restored antiques) must now have a ROPS installed.  

As far as the "has to have certification" push the Ag industry made...I'm of two minds about that. (in case you are wondering what I mean--farmers were strongly urged to only purchase and install certified ROPS...NOT attempt to build their own.)  Sure, a ROPS that doesn't work isn't any good.  And there would be a few guys who would call a 2x4 wood framework "good".  However, I wonder how many more tractors would have something perfectly adequate on it if they had made "standard plans" available and encouraged farmers to use them. Farmers are neither stupid nor incompetent when it comes to building stuff.   I think a lot of small farmers looked at the cost, and said "I ain't spending that much on something I could build that for nothing out of my scrap pile, but they say that's no good!" so nothing got done.  I guess I would suggest that "some protection" is better than none...and if you want to build and use your own, build it heavy.    Especially if your tractor is not got a unit available otherwise--like the 2155 above.  Of course, I'm maybe biased, since I built my own to fit inside the "cab" on my 806 in the tag picture.  I was working at a machine shop  at the time and ...well, the axles are gonna snap before that ROPS.

[495man]

1 hour ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

Boy--you want to get into a yard with a bunch of angry pitbulls, suggest that all tractors (including restored antiques) must now have a ROPS installed.  

 

Think it's law here that any tractor an EMPLOYEE operates must have ROPS on it, but I think there was a "if built after 19XX" or something. I know it took in some of the smaller IH's that were sold new that didn't normally have ROPS fitted when new. 

OH&S laws are coming to farms whether people like it or not.... 

 

[Andy578]

On 01/01/2017 at 3:12 PM, ny bill o said:

CIH has the !distinction! of having by far the most outright costly rops of any companies (think 3-4x more than some). jd and kubota make them available at cost or close and cih says tough s*** buy a new tractor.

 

yeah that sounds like CIH. rape you on parts and say if you don't like it buy a new machine. unbelievable the prices i've had to pay on simple parts lately. 

 

[806 man]

On 1/1/2017 at 5:18 AM, Michael Halsall said:

Here is one of those "Australia compared to the USA" questions.

In Australia all farm tractors are a required to have a Roll Over Protection System  (ROPS)

Older tractors, if they are used for farming, are required to have retro-fitted ROPS frames where available.

There is even a frame made to fit the McCormick W-6 tractor ! (made by Bare-Co)

In the USA it appears only tractors built after a certain date need rollover protection.

Are frames available for older tractors if requested by the operator? A lot of older US tractors seemed to fitted with "sun-shade" frames which are more a weather shield than a ROPS

I have seen an American photo of a Farmall 140 (late 1970s) fitted a four point mounted ROPS frame, but other older tractors, in photos, never seen have them fitted.

Regards from Michael H.

I've seen some state regulations which talk about being close to ditches and hills with more than a certain degree of slope other wise not needed.   On some tractors with the 6 sided axle housing be careful when tightening the ROP bolts the axle housing are know to collapse using the torque specs supplied from the ROP MFG Co

[oldtanker]

8 hours ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

Boy--you want to get into a yard with a bunch of angry pitbulls, suggest that all tractors (including restored antiques) must now have a ROPS installed.  

As far as the "has to have certification" push the Ag industry made...I'm of two minds about that. (in case you are wondering what I mean--farmers were strongly urged to only purchase and install certified ROPS...NOT attempt to build their own.)  Sure, a ROPS that doesn't work isn't any good.  And there would be a few guys who would call a 2x4 wood framework "good".  However, I wonder how many more tractors would have something perfectly adequate on it if they had made "standard plans" available and encouraged farmers to use them. Farmers are neither stupid nor incompetent when it comes to building stuff.   I think a lot of small farmers looked at the cost, and said "I ain't spending that much on something I could build that for nothing out of my scrap pile, but they say that's no good!" so nothing got done.  I guess I would suggest that "some protection" is better than none...and if you want to build and use your own, build it heavy.    Especially if your tractor is not got a unit available otherwise--like the 2155 above.  Of course, I'm maybe biased, since I built my own to fit inside the "cab" on my 806 in the tag picture.  I was working at a machine shop  at the time and ...well, the axles are gonna snap before that ROPS.

Todays farmer may well be able to build one but the farmer of the 60's and 70's would be in trouble. I worked for several farmers who didn't know how to weld. On was in his late 20's. He had a pipeline welding rig parked in the farm yard! It was his brother's unit who took the winters off and left it there with instruction to use it if needed. Big Lincoln welder on it that maxed out at 750 AMPS! I fixed a lot of his busted up stuff with his brother's welder! Winter of 72/73! Did some work for another younger guy in KS a couple of years later. He had a buzz box. Didn't know how to use it. His father had bought it because his older brother knew how to weld. When the brother left the farm the buzz box sat unused. Heck, come to think of it, I wouldn't trust todays farmer. Too many of em would either use junk that wouldn't hold up or they would opt for the cheapest, thinnest walled material they could find. So yea, they could build it but could they build it right? I have plans to build a ROPS downloaded from the net. The site I got them from is no longer available. For a small light tractor the plans specify thick wall tubing. Most guys I know, faming a 1000 or more acres, would opt for thin wall just because of price. Then even today about half would try to get the local welders to build it for them. The local welders wouldn't do it. I know them. They are not going to stick their necks out in a liability sense over something like that. It's a good thing none of them have older tractors without some type of ROPS.

Rick

[Michael Halsall]

7 hours ago, 806 man said:

I've seen some state regulations which talk about being close to ditches and hills with more than a certain degree of slope other wise not needed.   On some tractors with the 6 sided axle housing be careful when tightening the ROP bolts the axle housing are know to collapse using the torque specs supplied from the ROP MFG Co

You can still tip a tractor over on flat land. My uncle almost upended a Ferguson TEA-20 by hitting either a log or rock hidden in bracken.

He still has the tractor and its fitted with a ROPS now!

[DR.EVIL]

On 1/1/2017 at 6:40 PM, bitty said:

I am not sure that the Saginaw rops is certified or not. My brother just called about a pair from there . We will check if they were as I have one from a dealer that came from there originally.

Ad calls them a Canopy, not a ROPS and no mention of certification.   But if it saves a tractor operator's life it would be worth it!

[bitty]

17 minutes ago, DOCTOR EVIL said:

Ad calls them a Canopy, not a ROPS and no mention of certification.   But if it saves a tractor operator's life it would be worth it!

I agree to that. The only thing is that we have hired guys and they often are not as common sense ingrained. I am thinking that you need to specify that you want the 12 bolt mounting one. We have two from there, one has only 4 5/8" bolts per side, the other had 6 3/4" bolts.

That's a huge difference in the possibility of staying on in the event of an overturn IMO

[mader656]

Granted I'm not a farmer but if I was building rips for my self, I'd go look at certified rops on similar size machine and make them about 2x as stout.

Just wish the old after market cabs were rops.

When I worked at the rental store a guy tried to save 5 minutes and tried to unload a factory fork lift with a telehandler, flipped it, found out the tubing on the rops was thin less than 1/8th.

 

[Matt Kirsch]

If you saw some of the plywood hillbilly boxes people put on their tractors around here, call them "cabs," and are PROUD of their craftsmanship, you would rethink your assertion that "Farmers are neither stupid nor incompetent when it comes to building stuff."

The main problem with putting plans out there is LIABILITY, just like with anything else. If a ROPS built from those plans fails for ANY reason and someone gets hurt or killed, the designer of the ROPS is on the hook for financial damages. A well-meaning gesture to improve safety could very well ruin a person financially for life. Poor workmanship, defective materials, signed waviers; it doesn't matter... The designer ends up shouldering the responsibility.

[iowaboy1965]

There are many sharp farmers who could build a proper ROP and there are many who shouldnt touch stuff. But imo it has always been that way. Technology and higher tech tools are more readily available than ever before......

[Mudfly]

I probably shouldn't comment, but I will.  Almost any ROPS structure even if it isn't certified is better than none (there may be exceptions for plywood), it just might not meet the 'standard' which was determined by either a government agency or possibly an engineering organization.  The standard is a good standard, but it may be 5 or 10x stronger than needed for certain roll over situations, and it may not be nearly strong enough in others.  At the time it was developed it was considered to be acceptable to whoever put it together, or minimally a compromise of the various opinions of the group that established it, and it could likely be defended as sound criteria to measure against.

In regard to the Saginaw canopy or other aftermarket non-certified structures.  Do they meet standards?  Maybe?  They likely have never been officially tested because that costs a lot of money.  IF it was tested and certified, they could charge a lot more for it, but if the price was raised they would probably sell far fewer units.   It's a business decision.

Will they keep a tractor from rolling over and protect the operator?  Yes in some situation, No in others.  Which is exactly true for certified ROPS systems.  They will prevent roll over and protect the operator for a certain type and speed of roll over.  They will not prevent and protect IN ALL roll overs.

Same as steel toed boots.  Good when you drop a pallet or moderate weight on your foot, but drop something heavy enough and the steel toe won't matter.

Forgot to add that, it is the owners/operators choice (for now) as to what they feel comfortable with for risk.  I personally feel safe without a ROPS on most of tractors I drive.  There have been times where I would want one though.  Loading and unloading from a trailer is usually one of those times.

[495man]

5 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

If you saw some of the plywood hillbilly boxes people put on their tractors around here, call them "cabs," and are PROUD of their craftsmanship, you would rethink your assertion that "Farmers are neither stupid nor incompetent when it comes to building stuff."

The main problem with putting plans out there is LIABILITY, just like with anything else. If a ROPS built from those plans fails for ANY reason and someone gets hurt or killed, the designer of the ROPS is on the hook for financial damages. A well-meaning gesture to improve safety could very well ruin a person financially for life. Poor workmanship, defective materials, signed waviers; it doesn't matter... The designer ends up shouldering the responsibility.

Best one I saw was a 60 HP utility that was a factory open station with folding rollbar. The guy took off the top ROPS hoop and built a plywood box around the operator's station and welded frame work to the lower ROPS bars.  Complete with the orange beacon on top too. 

Tractor dealer in northern NB I think got every single plywood cabbed tractor that was ever traded in going from the "used" flyer that used to come in the mail. I was going to suggest to them they adopt the "Plywood Cab Specialist" in their marketing.  People would trade in their 1970s/1980s 2wd with plywood cab and buy a new Korean compact. 

[bitty]

I agree with Mudflys post. However you need to inspect the rops. We put a new one on once and saw it had cold shoulder on two welds. Had my cousin who is a professional welder fix it