Mountain Heritage Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Just throwing this out there for input, good, bad, otherwise. Notice a lot of off-set disc posted on various machine dealer's web-sites lately - anyone know why there are so many? People just getting away from tillage or are the off-set disc not what they were/are cracked up to be? What are they like compared to "finish" discs? Do they do as good of a job at cutting things up to prepare a seed bed OR are they basically a cheaper way of tillage in the fall vs chisel plowing or moldboard? Were these the guys who dumped their disc for a vertical tillage tool? I notice a few Sunflower units that seem to be in decent shape for a reasonable price. Anyone use off-set discs? What is your primary reason for using them vs another style? How do you find they are to pull (required hp), bearing & disc wear, seed bed prep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisNY Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Offsets are generally large blades 24"+ and wide spaced usually 10"+, they pull hard if you bury them to the spools. Used to use them alot around here then realized the compaction being created so most got parked in the brush. Still have a 18' Miller for reclaiming ground but that is all it is used for. Takes all of 300 hp to pull it if you sock it in the ground If you look at road construction sites you will see them used alot in roadbuilding. Its a tool that has its place but using them continually in the field is not the place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihcubguy Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Neighbors have a 14ft Sunflower offset that we used years ago. That was before we bought a Krause finish disc. The Krause did just as good a job of cutting the ground and breaking it up as the Sunflower did and it left a nicer seedbed behind it too. Both were pulled with the same tractor and it handled them about equally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 The Miller I use for pivot corners is mostly just a toy these days. No one is disking in this area much. I really like it but I am sure there are other brands that perform just as well if not better. The Miller was built near by years ago but for some strange reason, far and few between now. The first time I used one I thought it was great to just leave it in the ground when turning around at the end. You just have to remember to always turn left. Here is a video of my 1066 with an 18 foot Miller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Wilson Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 I have a Taylor-Way five foot off set. Pulls great behind a 50hp tractor in this red clay, but a 45hp tractor it is all it want in first gear. I pull it with a 4000 Ford 52hp in second gear. I used it when I want to turn some weeds and grass over. Month or to before I want to make a seed bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Here is a better view of the Disk working. This is a second pass over the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDairy Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 We have a 12' IH. Was all we had for years. Chisel plowed and that for corn. I redid the blades and bearings in 08. Work good on cover crop that's tough. They should leave a little dead furrow is cutting good. Here I guess we don't fret about compaction. I guess we do actually. We get huge compaction from hard winter rains and 0 ground freezing to break up. Our's pulls about as hard as our 21' 475 disc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
856 Custom Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Neighbor had a Taylorway. Only time he used it was when he would tear up a alfalfa field after 1st cutting and put it to corn. Dad and grandpa used it once in the early 70s to do the same because it was too dry the plow didn't want to go in the ground. Don't know anymore how wide it was, but it was wide enough to make a 856 custom blow black smoke. Remember watching my uncle running it. They only used it that one time, dad said it ridged so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmall666 Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 THEY TAKE HORSEPOWER TO DO A DECENT JOB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR.EVIL Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Next door neighbor to the farm I grew up on parked his plows in the back of his shed and started just disking with his 10 ft Kewaunee disk behind his early D-17 Allis. Took 3-4 passes before he stirred up enough ground to plant corn. He never really said what his yields were but he could combine all morning with his JD 40 self propelled combine with 2 row head and not have to unload the grain tank! Dad figured 40-50 BPA. Our Landlord didn't believe in commercial fertilizer and we got 100+ BPA, 120 on a real good year on first year corn, and around 80-90 BPA on 2nd or 3rd year corn. A little fertilizer would have got us 125-140 BPA. Disk and planter technology was not geared for minimum tillage back in the mid-1960's! My brother-in-law farms the ground now, he gets 225-250+ BPA. I could see things an offset disk would be great for, but yearly primary tillage is not one of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtanker Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Don't see many of em here. Neighbor had one for a few years. It caused pretty back compaction problem here. No-till isn't practiced much here either. Most of the guys who tried it ran about 2 years and had a drop in yields that was attributed to compaction. So just about everyone is running a chisel plow then disking before planting. The guy who did have the offset said it took a look of HP per foot. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisNY Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Lorenzo, is that a rigid 18'? Our 18' is a single fold. Wouldn't even think about putting it behind a 1066 here In the early 80's here, offsets were the new fad, much like VT is or was these days. Everybody bought 12' and 14' Millers and NH OD's(Millers) to do fall tillage. After a couple years yields started to drop...then subsoilers became the new tool to rip out the compaction layer the offset put in. In those days pulled a 14' Miller with 4366 and it really was not enough tractor for it at times. And yes always turn left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Boy Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Still look cool. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyinca Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Ran a 15 ft . Bushhog offset disk looked much like the on above. Had notched blades in front gang & smooth on rear . Notched cut cotton stalks better, That was all we used for disking . Have a 15 foot tandem but it was used for seed bed prep. or mainly for Treflan applications on cotton ground back in the 70'80'90's Today , I use the offset after removing a orchard to get a good cut and use the tandem after young tree planting, down middles for herbicide application. With 806 & 4020's ran 12ft. J.D. or I.H. offsets . with 4440 I ran the Bushhog 15ft. offset. Bushhog much heavier and had to keep it off spools. As for compaction most guys ran vee rippers every year or precision tillage on row crops ,which was a ripper shank down about 30 inch over the row while pulling listers for bedding. Many farmers had Cat's that the pulled three shank rippers down 30-36 inches Today the successful open farmers left in area use a four wheel articulate pulling seven shakes down 24-30 inch with a metal roller leveler mounted behind , leaves ground pretty much ready for anything. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 44 minutes ago, Brady Boy said: Still look cool. BK That's a great picture and it looks like it's doing a good job. Who is credited for being first to offer this style implement ? Do you think company's like Miller were just copying what someone else had already designed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisNY Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Have shared this story before but worthy of sharing again. Good friend of mine worked for local JD/New Holland dealer back in the early 80's when offsets were the fad here. Big dairy north of here at the time was looking to upgrade their tractor and disk so were demoing some units. Deere dealer was trying to sell them a new Deere articulate but they were leaning towards a Case crab steer. Well they decided on a New Holland offset after demoing a 14' on their current 2470 Case but since they were upgrading tractors wanted something bigger so they ordered a big OD300 New Holland, like a 22'(cant remember how wide), my friend went to PA to pick it up and took two truckloads to get it back here it was so heavy. Well, the farmer went ahead and bought a 4890 Case which did not set well with the Deere dealer so when they put the disk together the dealer told them not to put any stops on it so it would bury right to the spools on the 26 or 28" blades. So they hauled to the farm which had just taken delivery of their new Case and they had a big crowd to watch this big rig in the field with their new disk. Well they get it hooked up and take off down the field and drop the disk all the way in the ground..... the big 4890 blew a big cloud of black smoke and apparently the rear duals were not tightened down very well and when the tractor squatted down in the rear, both rear duals snapped off and the tractor stalled. Needless to say the stops were installed on the disk, the Case dealer was PO'ed and the Deere dealer left smiling. Both items sold at their bankruptcy sale a couple years later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jass1660 Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 21 minutes ago, ChrisNY said: Have shared this story before but worthy of sharing again. Good friend of mine worked for local JD/New Holland dealer back in the early 80's when offsets were the fad here. Big dairy north of here at the time was looking to upgrade their tractor and disk so were demoing some units. Deere dealer was trying to sell them a new Deere articulate but they were leaning towards a Case crab steer. Well they decided on a New Holland offset after demoing a 14' on their current 2470 Case but since they were upgrading tractors wanted something bigger so they ordered a big OD300 New Holland, like a 22'(cant remember how wide), my friend went to PA to pick it up and took two truckloads to get it back here it was so heavy. Well, the farmer went ahead and bought a 4890 Case which did not set well with the Deere dealer so when they put the disk together the dealer told them not to put any stops on it so it would bury right to the spools on the 26 or 28" blades. So they hauled to the farm which had just taken delivery of their new Case and they had a big crowd to watch this big rig in the field with their new disk. Well they get it hooked up and take off down the field and drop the disk all the way in the ground..... the big 4890 blew a big cloud of black smoke and apparently the rear duals were not tightened down very well and when the tractor squatted down in the rear, both rear duals snapped off and the tractor stalled. Needless to say the stops were installed on the disk, the Case dealer was PO'ed and the Deere dealer left smiling. Both items sold at their bankruptcy sale a couple years later. I think I'd put that one on the buyer. Didn't inspect his new equipment or even bother to look for stops, even read the book for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray54 Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 The offset disc goes back to the 1930's at least. I suspect even further back,with all the rock around here plowing is never done. Grandfather bought a coil spring chisel and offset disc to us when he bought a Cat 35 diesel in 1934. But he did also buy a Oliver 8 bottom disc plow then. Dyer that was part of IH was popular brand of disc until IH dropped the name. Towner and Gobel also started making offset discs early on. Towner was making heavy discs with 32 and 36 inch blades in the 50's maybe earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDairy Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 http://www.centralcaliforniaimplement.com/Equipment/TATU-Disk-Harrows-and-parts.aspx Goto the world ag expo, These are heeeeaavy, several California built brands. These are skoukumchuck too. http://www.wilcoxap.com/html/chisels_rippers.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyinca Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Thanks Troy for the links, We have had many versions of the offset out here ,even as Ray54 mentioned the old Gobel drag disks. My Dad's first tractor after horses was a 9n and he had a drag offset that came with a special three point hitch & chain apparatus, that when you lifted three point, it closed the disk's cutting angle. (long time pre wheel control. lol. ) The offset has been our mainstay out here and its what's normal to us. Tandems were used for incorporating seeds, or herbicides and in Vineyards & orchards. Most Raisin Vineyards use a three point tandem with oscillating bar carrying flat furrowers in back , they will knock down weeds ,till soil & throw furrows back up in one pass and be ready to irrigate. Tony Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPower5488 Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 We run a 16 ft ih offset over the same cornstalks yearly, never have noticed compaction at all. Is it because we run a soil finisher after it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZG6E Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 We have a 15 ft jd. It works great for leveling the furrows from when we pull ditches in Corn to irrigate. A lot of times I can seed alfalfa into once disced, once roller packed corn stubble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisNY Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 41 minutes ago, RedPower5488 said: We run a 16 ft ih offset over the same cornstalks yearly, never have noticed compaction at all. Is it because we run a soil finisher after it? No, any horizontal tillage equipment will leave a compaction layer, the key if doing tillage is to rip those layers deep enough to establish good root system. Have you checked with penetrometer or dug a root pit? I would be amazed if you have been running an offset disk for years that you did not have a compaction layer 6-8" deep and another from the finisher about 3" down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPower5488 Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 1 hour ago, ChrisNY said: No, any horizontal tillage equipment will leave a compaction layer, the key if doing tillage is to rip those layers deep enough to establish good root system. Have you checked with penetrometer or dug a root pit? I would be amazed if you have been running an offset disk for years that you did not have a compaction layer 6-8" deep and another from the finisher about 3" down. I have not done any tests but I am not concerned about it since I have no problems with yields being below 200 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jass1660 Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 1 hour ago, RedPower5488 said: I have not done any tests but I am not concerned about it since I have no problems with yields being below 200 Get rid of the compaction maybe you'll be at 300. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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