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mx_599

1966 Loadstar F-1800

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Does the rear end of this frame look altered or stock? I thought that it looked like the main channels were shorten in length and the the rear piece welded back? Or does it look like it could be original? As far as the tow bumper, i think that was an option called "rear tow loop"? Or does that whole tow piece piercing through on each side look custom? Any insight much appreciated. (click photo to make larger?)

post-120713-0-54644100-1463941336_thumb.

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Looks stock to me on mine it has that cross member but it does not have to tow bar and on mine someone added a foot on where yours ends but looks stock to me. Welcome to the forum :mellow:

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Looks stock to me on mine it has that cross member but it does not have to tow bar and on mine someone added a foot on where yours ends but looks stock to me. Welcome to the forum :mellow:

thanks!

I am looking on specs here:

http://content.wisconsinhistory.org/cdm/ref/collection/ihc/id/36235

[scroll down to F-1800 (1962)] these are the two pages of specs I am looking at. Also not sure if the truck diagram is to be taken somewhat to scale because it definitely shows more frame at the rear, or so it seems.

I do not know how true to specs the truck stayed to the brochure. The truck is supposed to be 1966 and the brochure is referenced as 1962.

The tag plate says W.B. 205. I think wheel base from front to center of two rear axles. On the brochure, it makes it sound like the W.B. 205 has another 8 feet from the center of two axles to back of frame. I do not know if there were variances from the factory between the years...but that does not look like 8 feet. Cab to end of frame rails is supposed to be 19.5 feet.

It is a truck I might buy...so I can't measure it. I can request it to be measured.

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I am running into this same problem on other Loadstars I am looking at. It seems that the tag VIN plate W.B. number is not matching the brochure chassis rail lengths? I was also looking at a 1962 1600 that has a W.B. rating/length of 175...but then the actual chassis is shorter than the brochure data?

Anyone else referenced their trucks off the original data? Did these trucks leave the factory with inconsistent lengths or did owners hack them off?

thanks!

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Can a moderator maybe change thread title to say "Loadstar frames" ?

I am afraid no one is looking at this thread because designated as a specific model. Are there any resident expert Loadstar forum members here?

Thanks!

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I am running into this same problem on other Loadstars I am looking at. It seems that the tag VIN plate W.B. number is not matching the brochure chassis rail lengths? I was also looking at a 1962 1600 that has a W.B. rating/length of 175...but then the actual chassis is shorter than the brochure data?

Anyone else referenced their trucks off the original data? Did these trucks leave the factory with inconsistent lengths or did owners hack them off?

thanks!

Loadstars were custom ordered from the factory. There were cookie cutter loadstars designated for dot trucks. Grain haulers. And other stuff. But my 69 1700 had like 9 options for wheelbases. Sometimes truck companies leave extra frame rail for other companies to modify to fit their boxes or beds. I see a good ol truck with a solid frame and i guess i dont understand your concerns? Do you have a bed thats going on it? Are you planning on restoring it? Im confused

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I am running into this same problem on other Loadstars I am looking at. It seems that the tag VIN plate W.B. number is not matching the brochure chassis rail lengths? I was also looking at a 1962 1600 that has a W.B. rating/length of 175...but then the actual chassis is shorter than the brochure data?

Anyone else referenced their trucks off the original data? Did these trucks leave the factory with inconsistent lengths or did owners hack them off?

thanks!

Loadstars were custom ordered from the factory. There were cookie cutter loadstars designated for dot trucks. Grain haulers. And other stuff. But my 69 1700 had like 9 options for wheelbases. Sometimes truck companies leave extra frame rail for other companies to modify to fit their boxes or beds. I see a good ol truck with a solid frame and i guess i dont understand your concerns? Do you have a bed thats going on it? Are you planning on restoring it? Im confused

No, I am just anal retentive. lol

I guess it is no big deal. Its not so much the frame itself, but if someone is willing to cut part of frame off it means they are more apt to start messing with many things. Yes, I do want to restore it. The historic brochure is 1962 and this truck above is a 1966. The brochure showed 5 lengths. Not sure if there were more added in the next 4 years.

I guess it's more about knowing if the truck was changed. I could not make sense with the brochures. Maybe not having the exact year brochure is part of the reason.

I was a bit curious if the back frame support is normally riveted to the frame channels or if those 3-bead welds could be stock too?

Thanks!

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Gotcha. Now we're on the same page. Ill look at my loadstar tomorrow because i know its cookie cutter factory length

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As runner stated it was not uncommon for a dealer to order a truck with a long wheelbase for stock. They could then shorten the frame as the customer needed. As for the tail of the frame your truck has been shortened. If you look closely the frame has been cut with someone with a real steady hand on the torch. A factory cut would have been smoother. Eason

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IMO any frames with any welding on them are modified by an external party not officially associated with IHC.

There is a frame manual for each model and no where did is see arc welding as and approved procedure by IHC.

Your questions can all be answered by the frame manual.

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That frame was field cut stock frames were most generally longer behind the wheels and unless it was intended as a tractor the cross member was not as close to the back. back then most trucks had the frame trimmed off as needed to accept the box even now its an accepted practice. I have owned 2-Loadstars ,2 S series , s B160, a1600 cargostar, and a 4700 series truck all of them needed the AF dimension trimmed to match the bed. a couple needed the rear axle repositioned for a custom wheel base. Now the last 7400 I ordered the wheel base could be matched within an inch or so of what we thought we needed but we still trimmed the AF Its really no big deal

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thanks everyone! So I guess the consensus is don't let that sway a decision to buy?

I would like to get my hands on one of those frame guides that one of you mentioned. I will need to look for that.

I suppose a master fabricator could essentially return the length to stock if it needed to be or was desired, no?

How about that tow loop? is that stock in how it goes through the frame? is it meant to slide out? It almost looks like it was cut and welded in that step down fashion. I am assuming stock just sticks out straight back. That is where it would be nice to see the guide.

thanks !

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As Runner mentioned , there was "cookie cutter" frames . But lots of trucks ( not just IH) were sold as "gliders"

No rear suspension installed at all , Just long frame rails awaiting the buyers instructions as to how they wanted the

truck built. The tow hoop on the truck you pictured is shop/home made , The rear cross member is welded on the

very edges of the top rails ( not good) there should be brackets bolted to the member and the center of the frame rail ..

In the pictures no bolts are visible ??

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I suppose a master fabricator could essentially return the length to stock if it needed to be or was desired, no?

!

Yes a good fabricator could easily hide any work associated with restoring that to stock look

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You buy a 54 year old truck you should expect several prior owner modifications.  The truck has probably had several different boxes on it.  Lots easier making one shorter than longer. Also much easier to see work on one that's been stretched.

My cousin had a 32 foot livestock body on a twinscrew Mack. He cracked one or both frame rails due to the long distance from steering axle to tandems.  He ended up repairing each frame rail a couple times and finally had to install an air lift tag axle about 8-10 feet behind the cab.  So ANYTHING is possible when it comes to trucks.

Most new class 7&8 trucks have heat treated frame rails, big stickers all over frame, "NO WELDING", and in finer print " No drilling/cutting frame flange" meaning all attachments have to be bolted to frame rail webbing.

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thanks for the insight. I had to look up photos "air lift tag axle". Sorry, just learning about some of this stuff

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On 5/30/2016 at 6:47 PM, DOCTOR EVIL said:

Most new class 7&8 trucks have heat treated frame rails, big stickers all over frame, "NO WELDING", and in finer print " No drilling/cutting frame flange" meaning all attachments have to be bolted to frame rail webbing.

what happens if you weld the heat treated frame? can you NEVER weld heat treated? the brochure states that the frame is heat treated in the photo I posted and they welded the rear you can see. Is it a big deal?

 

Also, if a fabricator were to extend frame again, are the options the industrial rivets or bolts but NO welding?

 

thanks!

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On June 1, 2016 at 0:35 AM, mx_599 said:

what happens if you weld the heat treated frame? can you NEVER weld heat treated? the brochure states that the frame is heat treated in the photo I posted and they welded the rear you can see. Is it a big deal?

 

Also, if a fabricator were to extend frame again, are the options the industrial rivets or bolts but NO welding?

 

thanks!

If you heat or weld on a heat treated frame it can cause it to lose strength and bend more easily. 

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It is not uncommon to "splice" or butt heat treated frame rails together by welding  to get the length needed  , However the splice area is usually reinforced

with plating or additional sections of frame . Normally all frame modifications and cross members are bolted ,The holes are carefully reamed to size

and special frame bolts are used , They feature a full shoulder ,flanged heads and nuts , They are sometimes called "Huck" bolts .

This is my 85 IH 2574 It started life as a inner city , single axle pepsi tractor ,  26 feet of frame from cab back ,doubled from cab back (top rail trimmed )

and tripled at the last 10' for the knuckle boom setup ,   added a 20k air lift tag ,35' 11-3/4 " long , Rode like a Cadillac ,But ya had to call ahead and make a reservation to turn it around

International 85 2574 001 (800x437).jpg

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ummm, wow. Can't figure out how to use this forum. Tried to quote above. Anyway, thanks Kevin! I got a lot of info from your post. Learn something new all the time. Huck bolts.

Have you ever heard of people doing the actual iron "rivets"? I guess maybe more trouble than worth? I have a Chevy K30 pick-up that may need some frame work but I wanted to keep it original. So I researched the rivets. Its been awhile, but I think I got somewhere in my search. I think one thing I read you had to do was heating and cooling the material or rivet so that when it was finished, the contraction or whatever of the rivet formed a very tight connection.

Am I making stuff up? or have you heard of that too? I am not sure if you can get by with some type of anvil and sledge hammer to do them or if it would require a giant press that only an auto factory would have? I think I recalled you hit the rivet when hot...almost like a blacksmith. :)

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One of the reasons they don't like welding to attach the frame rails is welds don't flex they just fracture over time. If you ever see suspension componants and crosmembers welded in it ain't factory. The big rivets and bolts they use allow enough flex to keep metal/joint fatigues to a minimum to allow the frame to flex over uneven terrain. They flex a lot less empty than they do loaded and thats by design. Things look simple but theres a ton of math and engineering involved in building heavy trucks.I've seen peterbilts with their trailer flat on its side,drive wheels a foot off the ground on the high side,and the lug nuts on the front drive wheel on the low side almost touching the pavement. They flopped it back upright and the truck never even wore tires funny! Ran and drove as normal! Pretty amazing when you think about it.

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