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George 2

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Everything posted by George 2

  1. For Keith Scott about why Cockshutt never made it to Australia, I offer the following. Back about 20 years ago I had a long talk with Bill Cockshutt at the Ilderton, ON tractor show. One of the things he mentioned was how Cockshutt was expanding it's product line and specifically their presence in the United States during the 1950's. In fact he was stationed at the Kansas City branch for a time. The problem was always finding enough money to grow and expand the company. And that is what got them in trouble with the investors. The investors wanted larger dividends and didn't get them. Finally, they revolted and you know the rest of the story. One area they were also looking at was Australia. However he said Australia had large tariffs and both IH and Massey in order to avoid them started local manufacturing in Australia. Cockshutt realized that unless they did local manufacturing there, they wouldn't be competitive on price. But they didn't have the money to develop both the US and Australian markets at the same time. The Australian market would have required them to set up local manufacturing. So they concentrated on the US market and built a plant at Bellevue, OH to fully enter the American market first. However they never got the chance to develop a market in Australia since the investors sold them out in the late 1950's. That is what I remember from the discussion with Bill. Sadly he passed away a few weeks back.
  2. The 930 was about the same power as an Farmall 806. It also was rated as a 6 plow tractor. However that is in sand. In the usual clay soils in my area an 806 was good for a 5 x 16 model 550 plow. When you went to the 720 plow with the longer moldboards an 806 was only good for 4 x 18 plow. I had an 856 and had the loan of a 720 4 x 18 plow and it was sized about right. So what it will pull all depends on the soil and the type of plow.
  3. Thanks Hillman. Really appreciate that. Bill is about 89 now and lives in London, ON now with relatives. He is a man of class and the type of person I would buy equipment from. At one time back in the 1965 to about 1990 he was the General Sales Manager for Allied Farm Equipment in St Marys, ON. This is after the White people booted him out of Cockshutt Farm Equipment.
  4. You are right Cockshutt had Live PTO on the model 30 introduced in October 1946. Ivan MacRae was a brilliant Canadian engineer (Queens graduate) who was in charge of the LPTO project. I spoke to Bill Cockshutt about that 10 years ago and he told me Ivan handled that project himself.
  5. So what year was this advertisement from? It appears to be 1953 because that is the year they made the valve rotators standard and added the live PTO clutch. One of our neighbors had a 33 row crop diesel with live PTO. Impressive tractor on a PTO baler back then. OOPs I just noticed you said 1953. And the Super H and M still had transmission driven PTO that year. Gives meaning to the screw-ups under John McCaffrey's watch at IH.
  6. I have seen a couple of the Oliver 62-T balers (same painted green) where I grew up. No Cockshutt's.
  7. It is a Wisconsin THD engine 2 cyl air cooled. Earlier NH 66 balers used the TFD engine.
  8. Also note the 52 tractor trailer behind the baler. There was only one 55 T baler (that I know of) in the area I grew up in and I saw it once at the dealer's in 1955.
  9. Hillman: Can you check to se what year that brochure was published in. I have the same brochure but it shows the new Farmall tractors and the old 10-20, W-30, and W-40 standard tractors. The lower left corner has about one half inch torn off it but what I see is xxx165-DD 3-7. The suffix DD gives the year and I suspect this is a spring 1940 edition since the new Farmalls are shown but still show the old standard tractors. Does yours have the EE (1941) or FF (1942) suffix's?
  10. The B250 was not sold in the USA. The B275 and B414 were sold in the USA. The B250 was not power equivalent to the 330. The 330 had 35 PTO HP. The B250 had 28 PTO HP. The Farmall 230 also had 28 PTO HP. The B414 at 36 PTO HP was equivalent to the 330, 340, 404, 424, 434 in PTO HP. The 504 at 46 PTO HP was a bit larger but built on the same chassis as the 330, 340.
  11. The diesel version was in the same brochure on another page. I have that same SW6-TA brochure. No factory LPG models. One of my friends father had a SW6-TA and after it was traded ended up on our neighbor's place. The same neighbor also had a SW4.
  12. Yes, I met Barry Baxter once when I went down to Brantford to buy a Farmall 450 from him back in the mid 1970's. But I wasn't fast enough. It was sold a few hours before I got there. But it was a nice trip thru that part of Ontario in the summertime and saw a lot of tobacco growing back then. I am more familiar with the Glencoe, Rodney, Bothwell and Ridgetown areas since that is where my in laws live. I gather you live further east in the Aylmer to Norwich area.
  13. That is rare. It is the fall 1940 issue. I have a similar issue with the W4, W6, W9, WD9 all together in the brochure. It is interesting that the WD6 was not included in it. Perhaps the WD6 was not released until the following spring. Note the 24 inch rear wheels. Later units (after the war?) had the 26 inch wheels.
  14. Or should I say Glencoe clay. Some of the toughest clay in Ontario. I am not sure which is worse, the Haldimand clay or the Glencoe clay. By the way Case IH in the development of the 7500 plow tested it in the Glencoe area before taking it to northwest Ohio for some more tough clay. They had it on a 7120 2 wd tractor in the fall of 1990. I know the gentleman who was the project engineer for that plow and talked to him a couple of times about it. The day I saw it, it was parked at Ross Wilson's dealership. I have the SW6 brochure and the SWD9 brochures. I got them when I was a kid. Nice pictures of an enjoyable period in my life.
  15. Thanks, Hillman. I just have to find one now. Is that the Canadian version you have? Two of our neighbors had Super W-4's and another had a 1952 W-4 with the live pump and a loader.
  16. In certain areas LPG was very cheap and that is why they were popular there. In many areas like the area I live in here in Ontario propane was always as expensive as gasoline and as such diesels ruled the roost. For a short while here in the mid 1960's to early 1970's gasoline was cheap and quite a few of 656, 706 and 756 gassers were sold. There were even a few 666, 766, 806 and 856 gassers sold also. However, after the 1973 OPEC oil price hikes, their sales dried up totally. I remember only one 686 gas being sold and it was down at the Aylmer dealership.
  17. Very nice 656 restoration. I also own a Farmall 656 gas gear drive and of all the IH tractors I have driven over the years it is one of my favorites. Mine is called "Old reliable" as it will start unassisted in any weather. The 686 also is a favorite but it is a diesel and is noisier. Sooner or later I will get mine painted like yours. This year I replaced the clutch and maybe next year I will get the engine overhauled. But it is one step at a time.
  18. That is the same as the 650 catalog. I wonder if they airbrushed the 600 catalog to get the 650 catalog. And yes the price of some of these brochures is getting expensive today. I wonder what my 4300 brochure would be worth today. I haven't seen one advertised on ebay so I don't know. Anyway I do not intend on selling any of them. That will be a job for my son when I pass on. I am still looking for a Super W-4 catalog. I had one when I was 7 years old but my sister got hold of it one time and she ripped it up on me because I wouldn't play with her. Such is life.
  19. Initially there were a lot of 750/760 combines sold in my area. But as time wore on that changed. After 1978 when the 1480 was introduced several were traded in on 1480 combines. Some 750's also traded in on 1460's. Once the 1600 series came out the Masseys pretty well disappeared from this area and their market was split between CIH and JD. There is only one relatively new Massey now in our area. I know of at least of 5 newer CIH and 5 newer JDs in my local area (5 miles radius).
  20. What you say makes sense and agrees with the info I have. The 101 first saw production in 1957, the 151 first production in mid 1958 and the 181 may also have been first produced in mid to late 1958. That would explain the IH Farmers Catalog saying they were both new for 1959. And that is exactly like they did with the 80 being first produced in 1959 but not advertised until 1960. Good discussion. In the east Massey and Cockshutt to some extent dominated the SP combine market back then. I have never seen a 181 in Ontario and only one 151 model. There were quite a few 101's however. Quite a lot of 91's also. It wasn't until the 403 and 503 came out that IH became popular. There were a substantial number of 403's sold as soon as people started growing grain corn and they found out the small 105 and 315's didn't have the muscle to cut it. A lot of people didn't like the noisy operators platform of the MF 410 and 510 (like as you said). And Cockshutt had been reorganized by that time. Finally by the time the 715 came out the 715 was immensely popular here. So was the 915.
  21. Was that windrower a rebadged RENN windrower? It looks similar to the Massey unit (455?) that was built by RENN. Another question is, if it is a RENN was that when White abandoned the Kilberry model 502 windrower that Cockshutt and Oliver sold? Kilberry had been sold to Joe MacDonald and he mentions in his biography the loss of the windrower contract and the effect it had on MacDon. Through some skillful marketing Joe was able to place all the already built units with other dealers and CCIL.
  22. Was yours a preproduction model? I have all the Canadian advertising brochures from that period and the Farmers Catalogues and the 151 was declared as NEW in the 1959 issue. Similarly for the 181. The 101 was advertised as new for the 1957 year. Is it possible yours was a 1958 model as IH always made a small advance run the year before full production. Similarly, the model 80 pull type was advertised as NEW in the 1960 Farmers Catalogue. However, my two uncles bought a NEW model 80 in July 1959. One of them knowing that I knew a bit about which models IH had in their catalogue asked me what was the current model. I told him it was the 76. They told me this was a number 80. So I accompanied them when we went to see it and sure enough it was a 80 with a very low serial number and built in the spring of 1959 before the steel strike. The steel strike cost IH a bunch of production that summer. And the advertising didn't start in the farm paper until March 1960. There was a bunch of problems with the pitman drive and ours had to be welded that summer. Then the dealer called my uncles in March 1960 and told him there was an update package of parts to replace the defective pitman rod rocker assembly. His service man came to our place that spring and replaced all the defective parts with the updated parts. That was the good part about IH. If there was a problem they always had a recall and fixed them all. This recall was concurrent with the 460, 560, and 660 final drive modifications and they also fixed all of them. To me it must have been an expensive year for recalls.
  23. The 141 was introduced for the 1954 harvest season and ran through to 1958. Replaced by the 151 in 1959. The 181 was also introduced in 1959. The 101 was introduced in 1957.
  24. The only close one is the 141 and they were $8000 new in 1956 complete with cutter bar, reel, and grain tank for small grain. This was in eastern Ontario.
  25. The 127 was the last to have chain drives. The 141 was the first to have a fully enclosed gearbox and final drives.
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