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Petro

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Posts posted by Petro

  1. 1 hour ago, jass1660 said:

    Probably had enough metal wore away wasn’t a tight tolerance to make any more shavings after filter extension put on. 

    That was my thoughts. I'm assuming there was an issue with the pump right away and it self clearanced in the first 30 minutes of run time, creating the metal shavings. I'm assuming that's why I haven't seen any since. 

  2. 1 hour ago, snoshoe said:

    Sounds suspiciously like it was run under pressure. I would not install new pump without pulling orifice from regulator and making sure screen and orifice is clear. Sounds like we're getting somewhere.

    Definitely wasn't running under pressure, been running my father's 560 for 20 years and it's very apparent when the tractor is under pressure. Just by the way the engine sounds and the pump itself. I'd never be able to pull this swather down the road in 5th gear up hills if it had been under pressure. With that said, I'm not 100% sure why it failed. I noticed when I installed it, that it did seem very difficult to turn the pump gear by hand, maybe the tolerances weren't correct.  After installing the pump, I ran the tractor for about a half hour, then installed the filter extension the next day. When I pulled the filter cover off to remove the old filter, the screen had a bunch of metal shavings on it.  I've since checked the screen 3 times in the last 6 hours of operation and it hasn't had a single bit of metal. I'm wondering if that pump did start to come apart immediately and has just been getting progressively worse. I guess time will tell. Should have it back together Monday or Tuesday. 

  3. 1 hour ago, snoshoe said:

    I admit to being suspicious of pump from the start. This picture tells me pump is not well but does not prove it is the problem. Is the outer edge of that thrust plate where the gear teeth ride worn deeper than where smooth part of gear rides? Any slop between shafts and bushings? What does inside of housing look like? Clearance between gears and gear teeth and housing. are seals under thrust plate deformed or blown?

    We're looking for a space large enough for entire output of pump to escape. The seals that pressure load the side plates would be my first suspect. I would also be looking for signs of heat, cavitation or contamination.

    Both plates on the top and bottom of both gears are severely scored. There is a big chunk missing from one and the plastic seals inside are all but gone.  My picture doesn't do it justice. It's bad enough that that I'm surprised it was moving any fluid. The housing itself is good, the rest is junk. I called abilene machine and they said theyd send me another one in the mail. I told them what I found and that I opened it up to look inside, they weren't concerned a bit and told me they'd cover it without a doubt.  Fantastic customer service. 

  4. 13 minutes ago, snoshoe said:

    It seems unlikely to be a spool valve as it would have to leak past a work port to get to return. By eliminating pump. Anything that can cause this is unlikely. What I've listed is what I think is possible.

    I'm going to spend some time on it this afternoon and go over everything again. I really appreciate your help.

  5. 6 minutes ago, snoshoe said:

    Yes

    I have a parts tractor that i know for a fact had good working hydraulics, maybe Ill pull all three valves from it and swap them in and see what happens. That maybe easier than trying to eliminate one valve at a time with spacers.

  6. Yeah I have the same service manual. I've scoured that thing trying to find an answer but no luck. I've never seen the fluid flow picture before.  I also was told this was an open center system but maybe I was told wrong also.   "These are closed center valves. When the unloader closes. pressure is applied to all three valves. If one leaks to return. Pressure is lost to all"  Does this mean one of the valves could possibly be bad even if they all seem to function?

  7. 23 minutes ago, VacDaddyt said:

    Not sure if mentioned but there will not be pressure until the pilot circuit is activated, so 500 at idle with no valve actuation is OK. It is designed to go on pressure of 12-1300 when a valve is moved only. If the screen and orifice is drilled too large to compensate for wear in the spools of the valves you may get what is happening. I have not had one get that far yet. Put gauge on and pull the lever and watch the gauge when the valve is dead headed, if it goes to 12-1300 then it is not a pump or pressure relief problem.

    I've been checking pressure through the rear hydraulic remotes with the valve activated . . .    At idle or just above, it is making just above zero PSI with the valve dead headed.

  8. 5 hours ago, snoshoe said:

    Reason I asked was to open it and see if it was bad. Correct would be a flow rater between pump and valves. If you noticed no difference in pumps I have to assume it is not pump.

    One more question on regulator. Does unloader piston fit in bore past flush without touching ball? Reason I ask is seat can back out and piston can not backup far enough to let ball seat.

    Recently finished a thread where a piece of casting was missing from valve body. Op couldn't see problem. Neither could I from here. Symptoms were different but we could be working with something similar here. These are closed center valves. When the unloader closes. pressure is applied to all three valves. If one leaks to return. Pressure is lost to all. What I would have you do is remove one valve at a time. Use pipe spacers to put end cap on. If you get down to the hitch valve. Unhooking followup linkage will allow you to pressurize. If you still don't get your pressure back. It just leaves the housing valves are bolted to. 

    The unloader piston fits way far into the bore before it touches the ball. Like a quarter inch or more. 

  9. 15 minutes ago, snoshoe said:

    Any wear to cause this would have to be in relief valve.  Letting oil past piston. Or the unloading valve ball not seating.

     

    If that gets plugged. System will be on constant high pressure. That would burnout a new pump in short order. Would think you would have noticed that. Especially with the 17 gallon pump. Not sure what would happen if orifice was missing. Likely wouldn't work at all.

    Yeah definitely would have noticed it on high pressure. Realistically this is the third pump in this tractor since I've owned it.  I bought it probably 4 years ago, hydraulics were weak soo I threw another used pump at it.  The used pump never really made a difference, I figured the used pump was probably just tired also. Soo this year we bought this MacDon swather and I figured I'd just upgrade to a brand new pump just to eliminate the possibility of a bad used pump.  New pump also never really made a difference, soo I figured the relief spring was weak.  Threw a washer behind it last week, seemed to work alright for 20 acres of cutting but it was cool outside and they were long rows soo I wasn't using the hydraulics much soo I'm assuming the fluid never got real warm.  Went to cut a few acres this week, short feild soo I was constantly swinging it and picking it up and it was 95 degrees outside soo I'm sure the fluid was plenty warm. Towards the end I couldn't pick it up anymore and now even after it cooled down it won't pick it up.  Soo it has gotten progressively worse this week but there were issues prior soo I'm assuming it's related unless this new pump took a crap on me.

  10. 8 minutes ago, snoshoe said:

    Just checking. You had unloading valve piston out and ball was firmly seated?

    Unloading valve is directly under the relief spring correct? If soo, yes pulled it out and the ball in the end seems seated firm. Can barely push it in with my finger.  There has to be something very obvious here somewhere, but I'm not seeing it.  Can the regulator block be worn internally by chance ?  What I find strange is how the pressure was basically surging up and down before it finally settled back to 500. 

  11. 26 minutes ago, snoshoe said:

    Pull pump apart. Show us the insides.

    I'm going to hold off on tearing apart the pump until I'm sure the issue isn't in this valve block area somewhere.  Just bought it a month ago from Abilene Machine and it has all the paint marks on it yet, I'd hate to void the warranty just in case.  I think I'm going to install a different regulator block just in case there's something I'm missing.  If that doesn't help, I'll tear into the pump.

  12. 1 hour ago, snoshoe said:

    Not the result I was hoping for. Either bad pump or serious internal leak. I think I see teledepth fast hitch. Does it still work? Any creative plumbing on this thing?

    I guess if you're sure new pump never made any difference even for a short time. Dig into regulator as mentioned

    Pulled the pump and checked O-rings on the mounting plate and they are good.  It does have a fast hitch but even it is hesitant to work with such low pressure. But yes it does function with the rpm bumped up.  I removed all of the remotes and the regulator, don't really see anything blatantly obvious wrong. No torn o-rings or anything scored. I'm at a loss right now.

  13. I'll try to get a gauge in it today and see where it's at.  Pressure does seem to increase with rpm and the hotter the hydraulic fluid gets the worse the the Pressure gets.  By what you guys described, it sounds like a definite leak to me. I appreciate the help.

  14. 13 hours ago, VacDaddyt said:

    17 with the extension on the filter is more than they need for normal work. Have you checked the "S" or "D" of the valve positions. There could be leakage. With the washer you made sure not to block the ports in the base? The flow divider block could be worn out or have scoring that by passes. Seem like if I remember there is a O-Ring involved also. Does the pump sound like it is laboring when being used? Gauges. Did you buy both pumps new or just the larger one? 

    I'm currently using it to pull a Mac Don R80 14 foot hydro swing discbine swather soo it needs all the hydraulics it can get.  The valve positions are set correctly, it works both ways, just very weak.  The ports in the base are still open. Where exactly is the flow divider? The pump doesn't whine or act like it's being worked really hard, soo I'm assuming it's bypassing somewhere.  I only replaced the main hydraulics pump, not the small powersteering pump.

  15. Need a little guidance from some of you guys with knowledge on sixty series hydraulics.  On my 62 560 diesel, the hydraulics are super weak compared to my father's 59 560.  I've replaced the pump with a brand new 17 gpm pump, added the allied precision filter extension kit, and put a single washer behind the relief valve spring and I still don't have jack crap for pressure.  I haven't hooked a gauge to it yet to see exactly how much pressure it's making, that's going to be this week's project. I'm not really sure where else to look but any insight would be appreciated. 

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