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pt756

? about fire districtsAND MERGERS

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in our area we have 3 communities all along the same highway and each one is only 3 miles apart, tomorrow night we are having another meeting on a merger or consolidation, each community is small about 700 to 1400 population, well the one in the middle is a private fire department they are their own corporation been like that for 47 years they the fireman are very reluctant to give up their equipment, city just hires them to provide service, well the other 2 cities or villages are run by a fire commission and has worked well for a number of years city in the middle would like to join but is having a hard time convincing the fireman to give up their equipment, what is done in your area and are any of you on a fire commission or governing board, I was asked to be on this start up board but I think it is going to get interesting tomorrow night,

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Our area fire dept has been made up of a one-square mile city and 2 thirty-six square mile townships for about 30 years. A fire authority board oversees operations, with members from each township and the city. With each government unit contributing funds, we have a VERY well equipped department. I wish I could give you more details.....maybe the following websites may help......http://cliofire.com/ ...... http://www.viennatwp.com/Home.aspx

........http://www.thetfordtwp.com/ ........... http://www.clio.govoffice.com/ .......http://www.clio.govoffice.com/vertical/sites/%7B7D095F7E-8BBA-4ED8-BB46-A0DE61A15077%7D/uploads/201601151401.pdf (this is the 2015 annual report for the fire dept)

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Our area has Fire,Dike and Drainage Districts each operates independent of the other, these have been in place for well over a 100 years. general if there are any changes to be made the tax payers in a given district would be asked to vote on the change if it involves annexing a new area also the area that is about to be annexed would need to vote in or out, it usually has to do with cost or what an area is bringing to the table. Each Fire,Dike,Drainage district have their own commissioners , however for emergency calls the FD operate under a central dispatch also the districts are included in mutual aid between districts.

The districts set their own assessments for the county to collect from property owners for operation funding. This is not a pay or no pay option if you own property your in and pay end of story.

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I'm not trying to be a pessimist here but I'll tell you our experiences in our area at merged fire districts.

They work well as long as everyone or almost everyone is on board. If not the internal problems can get bad enough that it won't work.

Our farm spands two townships in 2 separate counties. Both at one time were combined fire departments with a neighboring township. They worked as long as the internal stuff was kept down. The problems eventually popped up. First some inside problems came up within the department. Then the 2 township boards with 2 separate views of the situation began to fight and eventually the in fighting got bad enough that they decided to desolve the fire department and go there separate ways.

My Dad is on the township board in one of the townships. In that agreement each township owned 2 fire trucks. In late 1993 the 2 townships desolved the combined fire department as of the last day of December. The township entered into a temporary agreement with a couple of other neighboring townships until we could get another fire truck and build a new fire station/township hall (the old township hall was a single room building built in 1898). I can't remember why but Dad was one of the guys who drove one of township's fire trucks out when the department officially desolved. (I was 9 years old at the time) I can't even remember what happened that made the decision to desolved come about.

The same thing happened in the township I live in now about 12 or 13 years ago. Infighting eventually led to a desolvement of the combined department. Each township went it's seperate way.

I'm not saying that it won't work but the success rate is going to be much higher if everyone is on board with the idea. Firefighters included.

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Won't matter soon anyways as .gov is making all fire depts switch to full time firefighters, those that can't or won't will be shut down, everyone else will have to raise their taxes to pay for the full time staff.

The info is out there look it up.

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Won't matter soon anyways as .gov is making all fire depts switch to full time firefighters, those that can't or won't will be shut down, everyone else will have to raise their taxes to pay for the full time staff.

The info is out there look it up.

I'm sorry but I don't ever see that happening. Over 75% of the nations firefighters are volunteers. To replace them it would cost tax payers billions.

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I can't imagine that either. Our county has lost over half its residents compared to a decade ago due to Ford, GE, Carpenter and others moving operations to Mexico or overseas. Our community has two engines and a volunteer staff. Only the two "cities" in the county have paid firefighters and the closest is 30 minutes drive at the very best. The county has had to shut down a couple of our bridges due to lack of tax revenue with the exodus. I can't see how we'd be forced to pay a volunteers for an organization we have created, funded and sustained.

Still I the government's been issuing all sorts of laws that aren't legal, but still require a court challenge to overturn.

To the question, a town near us tried to merge with another and have full time firefighters, but disagreements over station location, funding, community size and such effectively shut it down.

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Won't matter soon anyways as .gov is making all fire depts switch to full time firefighters, those that can't or won't will be shut down, everyone else will have to raise their taxes to pay for the full time staff.

The info is out there look it up.

I'm sorry but I don't ever see that happening. Over 75% of the nations firefighters are volunteers. To replace them it would cost tax payers billions.

Look at health care, what makes you think .gov won't do the same to fire service?

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Won't matter soon anyways as .gov is making all fire depts switch to full time firefighters, those that can't or won't will be shut down, everyone else will have to raise their taxes to pay for the full time staff.

The info is out there look it up.

I'm sorry but I don't ever see that happening. Over 75% of the nations firefighters are volunteers. To replace them it would cost tax payers billions.
Look at health care, what makes you think .gov won't do the same to fire service?
Why would gov mess with the volunteer fire service? If its being done for free why mess it up. Also besides there is far more political and financial gain to be in health care. Not really the case for paid firefighters.

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Right now they are dumping millions into AFG grants to bolster departments volunteer type departments are getting the bulk of the money. Consolidation does sometimes make sense is it really practical to have 3 departments in 10 miles, can the tax base support them and the biggest question with the small population can you get enough people to properly staff a call or do they have to call mutual aid right away? i hate to say it but you have to have a certain call volume to stay at the top of your game. The dept I am on runs about 100 calls a year if we have a couple months go by without a call you seem a little rusty right away. as far as coverage my dept. covers about 144 square miles consisting of 3 municipalities and parts or all of 8 townships with 25 firefighters. If you can answer positive to the questions I asked and believe it will stay that way for the next 10-20 years stay the way you are. Remember it took years to build up these department It will take years to change the culture so it is not practical to change it over night. the business plan for my department is one city owns it and the other entities contract for services. With this set up we had apretty rocky road for a while but we have meeting 2 times a year with all the local government officials invited and we listen to what they say. Remember to plan for the future.

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Won't matter soon anyways as .gov is making all fire depts switch to full time firefighters, those that can't or won't will be shut down, everyone else will have to raise their taxes to pay for the full time staff.

The info is out there look it up.

I'm sorry but I don't ever see that happening. Over 75% of the nations firefighters are volunteers. To replace them it would cost tax payers billions.
Look at health care, what makes you think .gov won't do the same to fire service?
Health care costs, or should I say revenue was equal to 1/6th of the economy, or somewhere around that figure. The control of that revenue is what the politicians were after. How much revenue is there to be made by taking over volunteer fire services? I'm with the other guys, I don't see it happening.

As far as the original question/ post, could the volunteer departments sell their equipment to the townships, and would the townships be willing to pay for their equipment? IF the true costs are revealed in this discussion, things might stay the way they are? Sid

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My local FPD hasn't lost a foundation yet....

No wood foundations in your area yet?

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in our area we have 3 communities all along the same highway and each one is only 3 miles apart, tomorrow night we are having another meeting on a merger or consolidation, each community is small about 700 to 1400 population, well the one in the middle is a private fire department they are their own corporation been like that for 47 years they the fireman are very reluctant to give up their equipment, city just hires them to provide service, well the other 2 cities or villages are run by a fire commission and has worked well for a number of years city in the middle would like to join but is having a hard time convincing the fireman to give up their equipment, what is done in your area and are any of you on a fire commission or governing board, I was asked to be on this start up board but I think it is going to get interesting tomorrow night,

yes it could get very interesting are there many other private fire services in the area?

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Won't matter soon anyways as .gov is making all fire depts switch to full time firefighters, those that can't or won't will be shut down, everyone else will have to raise their taxes to pay for the full time staff.

The info is out there look it up.

I'm sorry but I don't ever see that happening. Over 75% of the nations firefighters are volunteers. To replace them it would cost tax payers billions.
Look at health care, what makes you think .gov won't do the same to fire service?
Health care costs, or should I say revenue was equal to 1/6th of the economy, or somewhere around that figure. The control of that revenue is what the politicians were after. How much revenue is there to be made by taking over volunteer fire services? I'm with the other guys, I don't see it happening.

As far as the original question/ post, could the volunteer departments sell their equipment to the townships, and would the townships be willing to pay for their equipment? IF the true costs are revealed in this discussion, things might stay the way they are? Sid

I'm totally against government take over of any funding, I'm 1 of 3 elected commissioner's on a local Diking district every couple of years some idiot at the state capital will introduce a bill to remove our funding and take control of it, the funding is generated by the property owners with in the district there is no connection to the state funds.

There is no way possible for someone sitting in a office 150 miles away can manage the district as well as the local guy's that live in the district.

We are elected by the district voters to maintain dikes which protect peoples property, Our yearly budget is around $800k, We take no wages which is our choice. If people where to hear about possible wages being paid you never know who might try to get elected to the board or there true intentions, We have one monthly meeting to discuss operations and pay bills,

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thanks for replies did have another meeting as I said before the one in the middle has a private dept them boys don't want nobody to wreck their good old boys club, I think that will probably happen is they will have to think a bit longer before they will join also lots of hostility between the one in the middle an the next larger one dates back to a firemans death several years ago here in central Wisconsin, middle chief and the dead firemans chief are ar each others a lot

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pt756, on 20 Jan 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

thanks for replies did have another meeting as I said before the one in the middle has a private dept them boys don't want nobody to wreck their good old boys club, I think that will probably happen is they will have to think a bit longer before they will join also lots of hostility between the one in the middle an the next larger one dates back to a firemans death several years ago here in central Wisconsin, middle chief and the dead firemans chief are ar each others a lot

I won't get into the LODD, it was all around sad. I didn't hear much about circumstances, but I do know theaters are a tough fire no matter what.

Take a look at Sun Prairie FD they went though a similar fight last year.

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the dead firemans dad trims our cows hooves said over the years that theatre was probably reroofed several times with a tar barrel all that weight over the years and a heavy wet snow that morning was just to much for that roof I would guess

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Tax dollars don't pay for our volunteer fire department. It's all be community funded. The building and engines were privately purchased. The building is still privately owned and is "leased" to our fire department (organized as an LLC) for $1 a year. Our community center hosts events which help to pay for fuel and maintenance. There are grants as well, but in the current economic environment they are not as plentiful or generous as they were a decade ago.

I'm sure you're right that they aren't as on the ball as if they put out fires every night, but we do have agreements with the other local fire departments for assistance and help out as needed. The problem with the future is that all the grants available right now, may not be available in the future.

Back in the Clinton years when they were handing out wads of cash to every police department in the country, nearly every small down made a police department and hired officers and associated personnel. Once the money tapered off, they had to lay them all off. Ultimately it was just a waste of our tax dollars. Now it's returned to a volunteer basis with a stipend.

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Won't matter soon anyways as .gov is making all fire depts switch to full time firefighters, those that can't or won't will be shut down, everyone else will have to raise their taxes to pay for the full time staff.

The info is out there look it up.

I'm sorry but I don't ever see that happening. Over 75% of the nations firefighters are volunteers. To replace them it would cost tax payers billions.
Look at health care, what makes you think .gov won't do the same to fire service?
Health care costs, or should I say revenue was equal to 1/6th of the economy, or somewhere around that figure. The control of that revenue is what the politicians were after. How much revenue is there to be made by taking over volunteer fire services? I'm with the other guys, I don't see it happening.

As far as the original question/ post, could the volunteer departments sell their equipment to the townships, and would the townships be willing to pay for their equipment? IF the true costs are revealed in this discussion, things might stay the way they are? Sid

I'm totally against government take over of any funding, I'm 1 of 3 elected commissioner's on a local Diking district every couple of years some idiot at the state capital will introduce a bill to remove our funding and take control of it, the funding is generated by the property owners with in the district there is no connection to the state funds.

There is no way possible for someone sitting in a office 150 miles away can manage the district as well as the local guy's that live in the district.

We are elected by the district voters to maintain dikes which protect peoples property, Our yearly budget is around $800k, We take no wages which is our choice. If people where to hear about possible wages being paid you never know who might try to get elected to the board or there true intentions, We have one monthly meeting to discuss operations and pay bills,

.gov took over Indianapolis EMS, once the feds control it they can make everyone play by their rules. The states and local level bend over backwards for those federal dollars.

One day it will all be under control of Homeland security, look around, you will find many that already are.

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pt756, on 21 Jan 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

the dead firemans dad trims our cows hooves said over the years that theatre was probably reroofed several times with a tar barrel all that weight over the years and a heavy wet snow that morning was just to much for that roof I would guess

It is also the construction of the buildings in generally. The big suspension type (I think that is what they were called) buildings require every single member to play their part so it doesn't take many burned up trusses for the building to come down. Not to mention these are almost always 100 year old brick buildings. When I took FF1 our instructor said "never" go in a theatre, bowling alley, car dealer, roller rink, etc (building that is a huge clear span space) fire.

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