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Roschro

Head won't separate from block

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I've begun teardown of my W4 engine but I've hit a huge roadblock to the teardown process. The cylinder head will not budge at all from the block!

I've tried lubricants down the stud holes, I've tried putting the headbolt nuts back on and hitting them with a hammer to get them unstuck, and I've tried hitting it loose with a sledge hammer on a 2x4. It won't move!

If anyone has any ideas I could sure use the help.

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Usually it is just the gasket stuck bad? A lot of times effort with a soft hammer applied sideways may break it loose, but have seen stuck gaskets require a sharp thin wedge device (think old wood chisels) tapped in at points along the seam. Never concentrate too much in one spot though.

I had a friend of Dads bust my Honda 305 transmission doing that. Gotta make sure ALL the bolts are out.

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You will most likely need a good prying action. (Force) Usually there is one spot on an engine you can get creative with a prybar to wedge into. The studs will not let any notable side to side to help break it loose. If you have to use a wedge into the gasket area or even a prybar, be sure the wedge area is as smooth as possible and pick a location that you feel comfortable it can be "dressed" to repair any dings. And there will be a ding at least at the edge. A hammer can help but is only an assist and shock value. Usually breaks more than it fixes if more than a tap is needed.

Oh, and the air pressure in the cylinders as well can't hurt. Though is only about 900 pounds of force per cylinder.

Another avenue might be a puller of sorts. Set a board or plate across the studs for a jack to sit on, put a bar/brace across the jack and connect to the manifolds. Better yet, I would make a plate for the manifold studs so the pull is completely sheer for those bolts.

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when i was a kid my dad had a irrigation well drilled and the welder man out working on the rig had a wisconsin engine that he flooded and dad said to take the plugs out and light a match at the plug holes and he said no he would put some accetelene in the carb and he did and dad had grandpa, hired man and i stand back and he cranked it over about 2 turns and it blew the head, carbuetor and intake off and it went over the fence and landed in the water at the lake about 100 ft away. he waded out and got the parts and threw it in the back of the truck and went to town.

I would not try accetelene but it sure worked good that time

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when i was a kid my dad had a irrigation well drilled and the welder man out working on the rig had a wisconsin engine that he flooded and dad said to take the plugs out and light a match at the plug holes and he said no he would put some accetelene in the carb and he did and dad had grandpa, hired man and i stand back and he cranked it over about 2 turns and it blew the head, carbuetor and intake off and it went over the fence and landed in the water at the lake about 100 ft away. he waded out and got the parts and threw it in the back of the truck and went to town.

I would not try accetelene but it sure worked good that time

OMG! Good thing you DID stand back! That wudda won on Funniest Videos.

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If it was me I would be tempted to close all the valves and make a set of adapters so that a grease gun could be used to fill the center two or outer two cylinders through the injector ports or spark plug holes.

Its a quick and easy way to produce tons of even push force without having any sudden explosion or outburst like air does.

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Have you managed to remove the studs or are they still in ,they may have rusted in the stud holes.If this is the case you will need to use pentrating oil down the studs and keep tapping them.It may be enough to break them free.If it is just the gasket holding the head it should have broken free with a tap with a block of wood.

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There are two studs that go thru sleeves in the head. They are located in the center of the head. If u look real close at the head you can see the two sleeves in the head.

I've had those two studs seize in the head before. If you look on the cnh parts website, it shows the two sleeves, p/n 351972R1.

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Have you managed to remove the studs or are they still in ,they may have rusted in the stud holes.If this is the case you will need to use pentrating oil down the studs and keep tapping them.It may be enough to break them free.If it is just the gasket holding the head it should have broken free with a tap with a block of wood.

I assumed removing the studs would be out of the question since only 3/4 of an inch sticks out above the head. Can you get a stud extractor on so little?

I've tried soaking the studs in some penetrating fluid that is recommended for "freeing seized engines" so hopefully in a day I can go back and tap on them and get them freed up. I've gone around the outside of the headgasket with a small, thin prybar and actually removed a bunch of the headgasket material with no success so hopefully some time in this penetrating fluid and maybe a bigger hammer will finally get the job done.

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There are two studs that go thru sleeves in the head. They are located in the center of the head. If u look real close at the head you can see the two sleeves in the head.

I've had those two studs seize in the head before. If you look on the cnh parts website, it shows the two sleeves, p/n 351972R1.

I saw that those studs looked to be in sleeves. What was the end result of your situation with this problem?

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Sounds like it may be necessarily to start drilling them out. ;)

I would recommend starting with a small drill bit around 3/16" and go as deep as you can (easier to start and stay centered that way) then switch to a larger and larger bit until you have the studs drilled down far enough to break the head loose. From there once the head is off you can turn them out with a stud extractor tool.

If you have trouble getting normal drill bits to drill through the studs due to rust or hard spots its possible to resharpen what are normally carbide tipped masonry bits using a bench grinder. Its slow work sharpening one but when done right they go through any normal metals no matter how hard or rusty! B)

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Obviously doubtful a stud extractor will have clearance, but double nutting should be possible with 3/4". They really shouldn't be that hard to spin out but you gotta wonder what was done to this thing.

A thin tapered pry bar is a good start, but it needs to be slender enough to get clearly between the metal surfaces in order to get much wedge going on. I have been known to submit a screwdriver or two to the grinder in times gone by.

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I'm with M diesel here. Haven't been wrenching on tractors long but cars are another story. And I've done a few of the things listed above.

Justin

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I have sometimes used a sharpened putty knife to drive it into the head gasket to break a head loose. If you can split the gasket so there is some on each side of the knife blade you can usually get it loose without damaging either the head or the block. If you are going to be damaging one of the surfaces try to have it be the head. It is much easier to resurface compared to the block.

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I am thinking that the studs will be rusted into the head,I have seen several cases of this and there is no easy fix.I would try the double nut idea if they will fit.If that doesn't work drill the studs out.That way you still have an undamaged block and hopefully a good head.

I don't recommend levering between the block and the head ,as it can and most likely will damage both the block and the head.

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There are two studs that go thru sleeves in the head. They are located in the center of the head. If u look real close at the head you can see the two sleeves in the head.

I've had those two studs seize in the head before. If you look on the cnh parts website, it shows the two sleeves, p/n 351972R1.

I saw that those studs looked to be in sleeves. What was the end result of your situation with this problem?

Weld the nuts to the studs. Then screw those two pesky ones out, the sleeves will likely come along for the ride.

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I've given up.

I think I'll let my machinist get the head off. Before I send it away though, I'd like to check the bearing clearances on the rods and mains so I know if the crank needs any work too while its at the shop. I don't have a manual yet so I'm going off what I'm finding on Google (scary I know). From what I've found, clearances on rods and mains should be 0.002-0.003 inches at 40 ft lbs and 75 ft lbs respectively. Is this info good? What sort of end-play is allowable? I couldn't find that on Google.

What service or repair manual do you all recommend?

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I have never read two different torques, but .003 is pretty standard for all the early tractors.

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when i was a kid my dad had a irrigation well drilled and the welder man out working on the rig had a wisconsin engine that he flooded and dad said to take the plugs out and light a match at the plug holes and he said no he would put some accetelene in the carb and he did and dad had grandpa, hired man and i stand back and he cranked it over about 2 turns and it blew the head, carbuetor and intake off and it went over the fence and landed in the water at the lake about 100 ft away. he waded out and got the parts and threw it in the back of the truck and went to town.

I would not try accetelene but it sure worked good that time

OMG! Good thing you DID stand back! That wudda won on Funniest Videos.

That poor welder guy was welding on a old gas transport tank that had been used to haul water in for a few months and he was cutting a hole in the rear to put a bigger valve in it and the tank blew. it darn near killed him. He quit welding then as he was partially disabled after that

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You could try putting the nuts back on but leave them loose enough to let the head move after you put the valve train back on (leave too much clearance for valve "adjustment") and crank the engine over...maybe compression would do it.

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The end result.

Took my machinist more than 5 hours of lubrication, heat, and prying and hammering on it to get the head off. And 3 headbolts sheared off so he has to drill those out before he can shave 0.010 of the head and block to make it pretty again. Glad I didn't waste more of my time trying.

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