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Cattech

Liberty ready corn, other herbicides?

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Think I ruined Father's Day for Dad, I took a four wheeler ride around the farm today and ended up breaking some bad news.

Dad sprayed some left-over Accent Gold and Prowl in some areas, atrazine and oil in a few other areas, all on Liberty Ready corn, & things don't look good. Corn looks like a massive hail storm came through in all the lower ground. Ends of leaves appear shredded off, holes through the leaves closer to the stems, everything curled to the ground. Even worse - the grass is still green. Corn up on higher dry ground seems OK, so I don't think it was hail. Just wondering if conventional corn herbicides and the GMO corn can have adverse reactions.

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Atrazine damage will leave white spots on the corn, but Ive never seen it damage leaves like you are talking about. As far as spraying conventianal chemical on GMO crops, that what I have 90% of my customers doing with their corn now. They like the traited corn for the insect control and plant health, but are wanting to get away from spraying round up every year on the same farm. Could you post a pic of the hurt corn?

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Atrazine damage will leave white spots on the corn, but Ive never seen it damage leaves like you are talking about. As far as spraying conventianal chemical on GMO crops, that what I have 90% of my customers doing with their corn now. They like the traited corn for the insect control and plant health, but are wanting to get away from spraying round up every year on the same farm. Could you post a pic of the hurt corn?

Sorry, I didn't think to get any pics and it's 50 miles from my house. I didn't see any white spotting, there were holes through some of the leaves, 1/8" to 1/4" around that looked very similar to the holes in the leaves of the weeds that were still there. Most of the corn's leaves had the ends burnt off, like it was torn off, but the edges had the same look as around the edges of the holes. Also, the plants had a slightly blackened look to them. It seemed to be worse down in the lower areas, like it was run-off concentration damage. Over on one side of the farm, what probably was one of the first tanks he sprayed, the corn is looking quite healthy.

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I'm no expert, but I'm quite sure conventional herbicides work fine on GMO corn. I've done it alot with no ill effects, as long as you use labled rates. Are you sure it's not insects? We have had cutworm problems here and armyworms are one county south of us.Maybe insect pressure and herb. stress both?

P.S.- I took a ride tonight myself and saw what happens when you clean the sprayer but don't flush the booms-the first pass in oats for about 30 feet I fried them and I mean FRIED!!!! :o

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I'm no expert, but I'm quite sure conventional herbicides work fine on GMO corn. I've done it alot with no ill effects, as long as you use labled rates. Are you sure it's not insects? We have had cutworm problems here and armyworms are one county south of us.Maybe insect pressure and herb. stress both?

We've never had an insect issue, at least this early in the season. I admit though, some of the damage really looked like that could be the issue, I'm at a loss to what could eat that much of the plants in early June here in MN.

I didn't think there were any problems with non-GMO herbicides on GMO corn, but just thought I'd ask around.

Another variable this year, is we put lime down last fall for the first time. The soil PH was pretty bad, I've heard that it takes a season for the lime to incorporate, possibly the unusual amounts of rain we've had could have washed soil and concentrated the lime levels?

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How much lime did you apply? I could be wrong but it takes a rediculous amount of lime to have negative affects on a crop. Especially where the PH was low to start with. In fact I'm not sure you could apply enough lime in one year to have such an effect.

I'm leaning toward just straight out hail damage, no idea why it's spotty but hail does some strange things. Only other thing I can imagine is maybe he picked up a box of the wrong herbicide but thats awefully strange damage, from what I gather, for herbicide damage. You didn't by any chance notice an over abundance of grasshoppers did you?

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How much lime did you apply? I could be wrong but it takes a rediculous amount of lime to have negative affects on a crop. Especially where the PH was low to start with. In fact I'm not sure you could apply enough lime in one year to have such an effect.

I'm leaning toward just straight out hail damage, no idea why it's spotty but hail does some strange things. Only other thing I can imagine is maybe he picked up a box of the wrong herbicide but thats awefully strange damage, from what I gather, for herbicide damage. You didn't by any chance notice an over abundance of grasshoppers did you?

Haven't seen any grasshoppers, I won't discount insects with the mild winter we had though. I won't discount hail either, just odd with the small holes in the leaves and the blackened plants. And as I said, the grasses he was trying to kill are still fine.

This is actually looking like more of a mystery than I first thought, I'll see if I can get some pics to post.

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Well, holes from insects are usually pretty clean, hail damage holes are generally more like splits in the leaves from what I recall. Complete mystery with the grass still being okay....

Wireworms will make corn look like it was shot with a shotgun but never seen the corn look blackish like from frost...

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Cattech- are you any closer to solving this mystery? The more I think about it I wonder if you are seeing several symptoms at once. Just curious as to what you found out.

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Flying insects eat the inside of the leaf, and worms start from the outside and work in most of the time, but that doesnt really sound like what you have.

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Cattech- are you any closer to solving this mystery? The more I think about it I wonder if you are seeing several symptoms at once. Just curious as to what you found out.

Without going back down to the farm and grabbing some pics, it'll be hard to say for sure. As of right now, I'm thinking the hail theory is most likely. Dad didn't think they had much for hail in the last couple storms, but it wouldn't be the first time the line between severe hail and nothing was within a few hundred yards.

Hopefully, over the next few days what is left will start to show some comeback, otherwise, it'll be a shame to get skunked two years in a row.

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Information with pictures on hail damage at the link below. In most cases if the corn is small it looks bad but there is a relatively small loss.

http://www.agry.purd...eyoungcorn.html

Now I'm quite certain it's hail damage, I didn't expect the curled up leaves like I seen and the variations in the damage in different places of the fields, but the corn looks a lot like the "reasonable recovery" in the fourth group of pictures.

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Without pics there's no way of saying what did the damage but my guess would be 1. hail, 2 insects. Most chemicals for a non-gmo crop will work on the gmo version of the same crop without damaging it. Plus have never seen a chemical that made holes in the leaves.

Sounds like you are narrowing it down to hail. You didn't say what stage growth your corn is in. Depends upon the stage of the plant plus the intensity of the hail as to how well it will recover from the damage. Younger corn plants can recover from a lot of defoliation from hail & still yield well.

Son had a farm that got hammered by hail Saturday. Corn was about a week from tasseling, not a good time for hail. Now the leaves are shredded to ribbons and many stalks have no leaves left :( Our hail ins agent's son leaves nearby & said it hailed hard for 45min. Very unusual for a hailstorm to last that long in this are. Adjusters are looking at it today.

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Without pics there's no way of saying what did the damage but my guess would be 1. hail, 2 insects. Most chemicals for a non-gmo crop will work on the gmo version of the same crop without damaging it. Plus have never seen a chemical that made holes in the leaves.

Sounds like you are narrowing it down to hail. You didn't say what stage growth your corn is in. Depends upon the stage of the plant plus the intensity of the hail as to how well it will recover from the damage. Younger corn plants can recover from a lot of defoliation from hail & still yield well.

Son had a farm that got hammered by hail Saturday. Corn was about a week from tasseling, not a good time for hail. Now the leaves are shredded to ribbons and many stalks have no leaves left :( Our hail ins agent's son leaves nearby & said it hailed hard for 45min. Very unusual for a hailstorm to last that long in this are. Adjusters are looking at it today.

According to the pictures in the link Baart38 posted, the corn was around the V3, whatever that means. From the pictures in that link, and with a little luck, we should recover about 75% of the crop. It was around 4" tall and got beat down to about 2" tall, but for the most part, the stems were still there.

I'm 95% certain it was hail, we've never had insect damage beyond a few ear worms in 20 yrs, & the spray could not have done it. There has been multiple waves of severe weather through here in the last 2 weeks, including hail. Just because Dad didn't see any doesn't mean it didn't come in the middle of the night, or fall 1/4 mile from his house but not there.

BTW, thanks for everybody's insight on the issue, I learned a bit and also can tell Dad to rest easy, it wasn't anything he could control.

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An update on the damage, doesn't appear hail was the culprit anymore.

The areas with the most damage all coincide with a presence of Yellow Nutsedge weed. The nutsedge is also a prime habitat for the Maize Billbug. The damage caused does look like hail damage and the bugs only come out at night, so a person would never see them. But hail only damages the crop once, it doesn't continue to get worse as it did in this case.

All the areas with severe damage are being sprayed with RoundUp and getting disked down - there was no chance of a productive crop. Probably going to apply Lorsban or a similar pesticide as well. Next year - all roundup ready corn and a more agressive spraying program. Probably a pesticide applied at planting as well.

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Glad you found out what is causing this

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An update on the damage, doesn't appear hail was the culprit anymore.

The areas with the most damage all coincide with a presence of Yellow Nutsedge weed. The nutsedge is also a prime habitat for the Maize Billbug. The damage caused does look like hail damage and the bugs only come out at night, so a person would never see them. But hail only damages the crop once, it doesn't continue to get worse as it did in this case.

All the areas with severe damage are being sprayed with RoundUp and getting disked down - there was no chance of a productive crop. Probably going to apply Lorsban or a similar pesticide as well. Next year - all roundup ready corn and a more agressive spraying program. Probably a pesticide applied at planting as well.

Thanks for the update- I'm always looking to learn more, but I'm sorry you guys lost some of the crop.

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An update on the damage, doesn't appear hail was the culprit anymore.

The areas with the most damage all coincide with a presence of Yellow Nutsedge weed. The nutsedge is also a prime habitat for the Maize Billbug. The damage caused does look like hail damage and the bugs only come out at night, so a person would never see them. But hail only damages the crop once, it doesn't continue to get worse as it did in this case.

All the areas with severe damage are being sprayed with RoundUp and getting disked down - there was no chance of a productive crop. Probably going to apply Lorsban or a similar pesticide as well. Next year - all roundup ready corn and a more agressive spraying program. Probably a pesticide applied at planting as well.

Thanks for the update- I'm always looking to learn more, but I'm sorry you guys lost some of the crop.

Unfortunately, it's not "some" of the crop it's "most" of the crop. BUT, this is a good learning experience.... never assume that because something never happened in the past it can't happen to you. We had bad prosomillet in the past, it was a PITA to kill, but it didn't bring a bug with it, once you kill that grass, it's gone. This nutsedge is hard to kill, it takes roundup, but nobody had advertised the beatles that lodge in that particular weed. Had we known, there would have been more precautions taken.

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I think they make a special spray just for yellow nutsedge, but it only kills it and not grass so you can get it out of yards. I think it was "real high" when you shelled out cash for it, roundup is cheap. Sorry to hear about the crop loss.

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I think they make a special spray just for yellow nutsedge, but it only kills it and not grass so you can get it out of yards. I think it was "real high" when you shelled out cash for it, roundup is cheap. Sorry to hear about the crop loss.

Yeah, roundup is cheap when compared to other herbicides, don't know what other herbicides might kill the nutsedge, but once it destroys a crop, nothing is really expensive anymore.

From last year's crop yield, and seeing this years crop, I now know what is going on. BUT, Not my farm, and I have to censore myself a bit when talking to Dad.

We have a new plan though as I stated before, there WILL be 175+ BPA corn on that farm some day, it has been done before, no reason it can't happen again

If anybody has a good way to kill elephant beatles beyond normal insecticide, let me know.

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Two blocks of wood works great, I guarantee you can kill every bug in your field with them. ^_^

Permethrin works on about everything and is reasonably safe and cheap. Also Basagran will take out yellow nutsedge in corn and isn't too outrageously priced if you can find it.

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