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grassseed farmer

TD15B, will not go forward

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I started out with this post in the general, and was told I should move it here, so here it is.

Hello everybody, Have numerous IH and Case products all the way from H and M's, small tractors 560, 884, 1466, and up to Axial flow combines. Used to run a TD14 for a dozer tractor, but have engine problems. Found a TD15B (serial # 20533) that is in good shape, bought. Loaded it onto a drop deck and it went forward and reverse fine, turned fine. Got it home, unloaded it, moved it off to the side of the drive way on a slight slope, shut it down to get the truck hooked back up. Started dozer up, and would not go forward, goes in reverse just fine 1 and 2nd work fine in reverse. Not sure what is wrong. Checked hydraulic oil on the right rear of the seat (looking forward) , looks like it is below add. I am unsure where to put the hydraulic oil, I notice a tank just to the right of the fuel tank, or do I just put a funnel into the dipstick tube? I hope that adding oil takes care of the forward problem. Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated.

David

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Good morning,

The tank to the right of the fuel tank is for the blade only and has nothing to do with the transmission, conv or rear end.

Fill the trans / conv / steering compartment at the long dip stick tube with 10W motor oil and check at idle speed.

good luck

Dennis

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David,

Guess I can't answer why 10W for sure. Could be back then was availability and price. I'm sure there were not as many oil

options then either. The TD7 and TD8 with similar components called for 'Hi Trans' oil so go figure.

Universal Tractor Fluid would probably be ok too. Maybe your oil supplier can shed some light on what's right.

Seems like it took 30-40 gals for the trans and rear end so if 10W engine oil was cheaper that could be the reason.

If you don't have books for it yet, 'Binderbooks.com' has great reprints. They are in Sherwood, Or which is in the Portland, Or area.

Per your serial number looks like a 1966 model.

Good luck and have fun.

Where in Washington are you?

Dennis

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I will look at binderbooks.com for manuals. I farm at Rockford Washington.

Thanks for the information.

David

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Well I am finally getting back to the TD15B. topped off the oil in the rearend and still does not go forward as it should. It goes forward real slow and if I pull on the steering levers it basically stops. Reverse works really good though. Have not got a service manual for it yet, but the local shop said I could photo what I needed from theirs. I see the three ports under the floof board next to the seat, but can not read which is what. This tractor has what I call a direct linakage from the shift "tower" on the left side to the top of the transmission under right side of the seat. If I pull the batteries out it looks like the linkage works okay. Any help would be greatly appreciated. It is just weird that it loaded and unloaded okay. thanks in advance for the help.

David

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The three test ports under thr floor baords at the steering levers are for trans - main, convertor and lube pressure. main should be 180 - 200 convertor should be 90 - 110 lube should be 15 - 20. check main in neutral as well as in ranges. When is won't move check drive shaft to see if turning. also check the suction strainer under floor panels - is clean out screen to see what is in it to see what is going wrong will find pieces there.

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What Jim said is what we need to know first. Should be a clutch pressure gauge on the dash. Main/clutch press. should be somewhere near 200 psi in neutral and all ranges at idle and high idle. May drop some at idle but not much.

The old mechanical linkage was somewhat hard to get adjusted especially if worn joints. With batteries out and using jumper cables you could move the lever on the transmission by itself and make sure it is going into the detents properly while checking pressures.

good luck

Dennis

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Okay, ran pressure gage check this morning. Main pressure 190 in all positions, converter pressure at 110 all positions, and lube about 20 in all positions. The drive line is turning under the floor boards at all times. My clutch pressure gage on the dash has no numbers get the run section in the middle, if this gage is working correctly it reads just outside of the run range on the top side. I have not checked the filters yet, as the tractor is outside and it is raining (I know poor excuse). A question is that the book says full throttle to run the pressures and than also fast idle, what is fast idle? I noticed that when I was doing the pressure test that when in reverse going from 1st to 2nd that I can hear the motor rev just a bit, but can not hear that in forward from 1st to 2nd, which probably makes sense. Upon saying that, when I come out of neutural into forward it does rev up though. I also notice that when I go from neutral to reverse I can feel the tractor/transmission "catch" and do not get that on the forward. What is the next step?

Thanks

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Well David, your pressures sound good. Are they close to your readings at idle speeds? Reason being if they are would signify your pump is good and you don't have any excessive internal leakage.

The main pressure gauge should flicker (drop slightly and jump right back up) between shifts. This is the time it takes the oil to fill the clutch pistons.

If the gauge does not do this may mean the oil is not getting to the clutches

Drive Line-- Should not spin with trans. in any gear, even at full throttle provided the hi / lo lever on the right is in hi or lo, steer levers are clear forward and tracks are not allowed to move. How does yours react? It should spin freely in neutral.

With engine shut down do you have a inch or so of free travel on your steering levers? You should have some.

Well lets see what turns up with these tests then go from there

good luck

Dennis

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Dennis, Well I went and checked the pressures like you said and they did jump between shifts. Than I looked at the driveline issue, put the transmission in low and moved the forward/reverse lever to reverse and with the brakes on the driveline stopped in both 1st and 2nd almost immediately. So did the same thing with forward, at first it just sorta slowed down and afer 5 seconds stopped. Than I went to 2nd and is stopped after 1-2 seconds. Went back into neutral, came back into first and it stopped almost instantly, worked it back beetween 1st and 2nd acouple of times and it stopped like the reverse did, but not quite as "hard". So I raise the blade and the tractor now works in forward 1st and 2nd, While watching the gages for the main pressure it is running around 200 in all gears. So I guess all is good, I am hoping to use it tomorrow (or sometime this week)to make sure it works under load. I know that this tractor had not been run for a few years, is it possible that I valve got stuck or something?

Thanks for all the help and will let you know how it works under a load.

David

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David, that's good news. I keep falling back to the mechanical shift linkage as the possible problem or the shift valve that the linkage hooks to.

There are no other valves involved as long as you have good pressures.

The lever on the valve the linkage hooks to is keyed to the shaft of the valve. I've even wondered if the lever is moving but slipping on the shaft some how.

Inside the select valve is a wiper arm that moves from port to port with a brass wiper with a light spring behind it. Also as part of the arm is a spring and ball for a detent to line up the ports. If the ports do not line up properly the oil will not get to the shaft. You should be able to feel the detents as the valve is shifted. Possibly the detent spring is weak so the valve is not lining up the ports every time. Possibly the pocket the detent ball is in is worn also.

Don't know if you have a parts picture of the shift valve or not but if you do you will be able to see what I am rattling on about.

It has been a loooooong time so this is testing my memory.

Just a few thoughts if your problems persist.

Dennis

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I did pick up a manual on Friday, and will look and see if there is a picture. I understand what you are talking about on the linkage and the shaft of the valve, but why does it work okay in reverse? The reason I ask is that I had the batteries out the other day and could see the linkage hooked to the shaft "plate" and the reverse linkage and forward linkage are opposite each other on this plate. The more I think about this, I should probably look at the picture and go from there.

thanks for the input.

David

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Hi Guys I am back on the TD 15 B not going forward. I thought I had the problemed solved from this spring, went to use it once this summer and it just did not feel right going forward, like it "slips". Went to use it today, no forward movement, reverse okay, did not check pressures this time. Took out filters, suction screen was clean, am getting a new pressure filter, but did tear the old one apart and see no foreign material in the filter. When I put it into forward, with the brakes applied, the driveline does not stop... If i did not know better (maybe I don't) it is like a poppet valvle is not working right. This tractor, before I bought it, had been sitting for 4 or 5 years. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

David

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Hello David, I was wondering what had transpired.

No other poppets or valves as long as your pressures are up. The forward shaft is the input shaft for both 1st and 2nd. At the back of the transmission is the shaft manifold and pilots into the rear frame. In that area are a couple of pipe plugs, I believe 1/4'' that you can tap into to check pressures for each gear. Problem is I can't remember if you can get to them. By checking the pressures here you will know if flow is getting to the shaft and past the selector valve that the linkage is attached to. Seems like later machines had plugs in the front cover for this purpose and were easy to access.

If it were mine I would first disconnect the linkage and shift it by hand and see what happens. Next I would remove the selector valve and disassemble it and check the detent and wiper. I have seen where the side of the detent ball pocket was broken away which would have an effect on the line up of the ports. This could also explain why it works sometimes.

For right now I can't put my finger on anything internal that would be the problem effecting both speeds and having good pressures.

There is a procedure for adjusting the linkage that your book will explain. Is the shift tower tight to the machine? If it is loose it can effect the shfting.

good luck

Dennis

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Dennis, I have the ports that are under the floor board in front of the seat. I will check the pressure here first, is there another set of ports to check? Is there a way to get to the selector valve without removing the whole seat?

I am thinking that it is the selector valve also, since it has not been run, that maybe something is broke or just gummed up.

I will let you know what I find out.

thank you,

David

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Hi David,

Sorry, the seat and batteries have to come out to get to the selector valve. Jumper cables needed so you can check things without reinstalling them again while testing..

I'm sure you have those with all the machinery you probably have.

The test ports just under the floor and in front of the seat will tell you your system pressures but will not necessarily tell you what is getting to the shaft through the selector valve. The test ports I tried to describe in the previous post are at the back of the transmission and under the batteries. May not be accessible.

Dennis

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Dennis and all,

Ran pressure tests with the ports infront of the seat. All pressures looked good, still did not work in forward though. Went to check linkage according to the book, my 5/16 rod did not go all the way through like it was suppose to, so I figure the linkage is off a bit. This tractor has the roll cage and everything on it, (was used for a bit of logging) so I could not really get to the linkage on the bottom of the tower, so I took them loose at the top of the tower. Took one lower linkage loose a bit, and t he rod went through, but not through the front of tower, but this one has a solid (welded) plate in the tower that will not let the rod come all the way through. So I was just checking the indents to see if I could feel them, did this by just moving the lower linkage. Thought I would check to see if it was working (Dennis made the comment to shift it by hand), and it worked, the tractor driveline stopped like it was suppose to. Hooked all the linkage back up, put the seat back in, tried it again and still worked. Took it out to the cow pasture to push up the piles and it worked all afternoon. There is a slight oil lead that look like it is coming from ontop of the selector cover, maybe that seal is bad. So thanks for the help, hope it works again tomorrow. Must of been a stuck valve since it had not been used for quite some time.

One last set of questions, when operating the tractor, what is the correct way to shift between forward and reverse. Should I use the foot deacellerator to idle it down when going between foward and reverse and then let up on the deacellerator or just shift it and let the shifter idle it up and down? Also should I be stopped when shifting, meaning, say I am backing up, when I take it out of reverse maybe it is rolling backward still should I put the brake on to stop it then shift into forward or just shift into forward? I would think that if the tractor was still rolling that putting it directly into forward would put excess force on the hydraulics?

Thanks

David

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Dennis and all,

Ran pressure tests with the ports infront of the seat. All pressures looked good, still did not work in forward though. Went to check linkage according to the book, my 5/16 rod did not go all the way through like it was suppose to, so I figure the linkage is off a bit. This tractor has the roll cage and everything on it, (was used for a bit of logging) so I could not really get to the linkage on the bottom of the tower, so I took them loose at the top of the tower. Took one lower linkage loose a bit, and t he rod went through, but not through the front of tower, but this one has a solid (welded) plate in the tower that will not let the rod come all the way through. So I was just checking the indents to see if I could feel them, did this by just moving the lower linkage. Thought I would check to see if it was working (Dennis made the comment to shift it by hand), and it worked, the tractor driveline stopped like it was suppose to. Hooked all the linkage back up, put the seat back in, tried it again and still worked. Took it out to the cow pasture to push up the piles and it worked all afternoon. There is a slight oil lead that look like it is coming from ontop of the selector cover, maybe that seal is bad. So thanks for the help, hope it works again tomorrow. Must of been a stuck valve since it had not been used for quite some time.

One last set of questions, when operating the tractor, what is the correct way to shift between forward and reverse. Should I use the foot deacellerator to idle it down when going between foward and reverse and then let up on the deacellerator or just shift it and let the shifter idle it up and down? Also should I be stopped when shifting, meaning, say I am backing up, when I take it out of reverse maybe it is rolling backward still should I put the brake on to stop it then shift into forward or just shift into forward? I would think that if the tractor was still rolling that putting it directly into forward would put excess force on the hydraulics?

Thanks

David

It's always easier on the equipment if you decelerate before shift from forward to reverse or vice versa.

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Hurray I think we saved another TD15. Guess we'll know for sure after tomorrow. Keep us posted.

The mechanical linkage was a pain even back in the day and with some wear in the joints made it harder to keep adjusted and sometimes it only took a little. Later machines came out with hyd shift with a series of hoses instead of linkage and was much better.

The selector shaft is sealed with an o ring and I think backup ring and later with a lip type seal. A leak in that area was fairly common. The valve needs to be removed to make the repair. So, out with the seat and those batteries again, dang they're heavy.lol

If your decelerator system is working that should be enough to make a shift but those older machines did not have a cushion shift and best would be to come to a stop or at least close to when changing directions.

Sounds like you may have it repaired so happy dozing.

Dennis

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It's always nice when something works....

The B does have cushioned shift, just not enough to make a direction change. I will decelerate touch the brake then shift, but be careful you don't ride the brake.

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Well, I am finally getting back to posting. I used the tractor back in November after I worked the linkage back and forth. Spent a couple of days pushing manure in the cattle pen, and tractor worked well. Needed it the other day to push some snow off one of my roads, so that it would freeze down. Temperature was about 15 F, started good and went forward and backwards just fine. Went to move it home today and of course reverese worked fine, forward did not want to engage, moved the shifter back and forth between neutral and forward 1 and 2, and it started working and worked fine. So I guess everything is working good on it.

Thanks for all the comments and help.

David

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Happy New Year David, good to hear from you. Sounds like your dozer is almost right. Maybe this winter while your grass seed is hibernating

you'll be able to check out the selector valve and linkage closer. Would be nice to not have the aggravation of playing with the shifter

to make it function properly. Also damage may be caused to the clutch packs if the linkage or valve are causing a lack of flow to the clutch shaft, ie slow engagement or partial engagement.

good luck and stay warm and dry

Dennis

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