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HLADCHUK

td 20

58 posts in this topic

Probably a dual plunger pump and one plunger is stuck.

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I've never had a stuck plunger, one of the other fellas will chime in here pretty soon.

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Ping MD........heres your best choice for these IH pumps these days...........

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Try giving the plunger a wrap with a hammer, sometimes this will free it up. be carefull not to his too hard. It wouldn't hurst to take it apart aswell to clean them up. Fairly simple to take apart.

thanks

rick

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The forward plunger feeds the front 3 cylinders and vice versa. The plunger is forced upward but depends on a spring to lower it. A little fuel gum can make them stick, sometimes to the point of requiring disassembly. You may get lucky and have it free up, but my experience is that it needs cleaning. Getting the plunger apart can be a task due to the need for a special tool (can be made) and the proper technique for holding the barrel without deforming it.

If the plunger is moving at all, running a slug of mild solvent like Marvel Mystery Oil through the pump (engine running) via the sediment bowl will likely remove the deposit. Even if it does free up on its own, this should be done anyways.

It is possible to squirt carb cleaner or penetrating oil into one of the access screws on the side of the plunger assembly. That requires you to remove the top off the pump but at least the plunger doesn't have to come apart. With the plunger assembly out you can work the plunger upward more than the cam can push it which helps to free it. Pull with great caution and be careful working the plunger. It is not meant to be pried on and is easily broken..

Last bit, is the rack moving when the throttle moves?

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I can put up a couple of pictures in a little bit. If you remove the oil filler neck there is a round horizontal sliding rod (the rack gear) that should move when the throttle is changed. I have seen it stuck in the near idle position and one plunger was barely on but the other was still off. (There is an adjustment for that.)

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Sorry, got side tracked on making a long post about these pumps. Here is the short version.

To get to the inside:

Remove all the top side fittings.

post-546-0-92457300-1329442036_thumb.jpg

Remove extra plumbing.

post-546-0-75419500-1329442180_thumb.jpg

Top lifts off, exposing plunger assemblies and distributor body on the left.

post-546-0-69709500-1329441977_thumb.jpg

Take note of the side screws near the base of the plunger assemblies. They are short and don't do a lot.

A better shot of the screw.

post-546-0-72384800-1329442648_thumb.jpg

If you can get penetrating oil into that hole where the screw is, there is a good chance the plunger will release at some point. The plunger may start moving on its own under the right circumstances.

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Here is a shot of the plunger assembly with the outer shell removed.

post-546-0-21965300-1329443035_thumb.jpg

And an exploded view of the plunger itself.

post-546-0-34814200-1329443053_thumb.jpg

This shows the fuel well around the plunger. That screw is a direct path into the well, and actually lines up with another aperture straight into the plunger chamber.

post-546-0-39110900-1329443240_thumb.jpg

This shows the plunger fully inserted into place. At this point you can see the plunger helix through the screw hole. Sorry I can't find a better photo at the moment.

post-546-0-34995700-1329443453_thumb.jpg

Basically, the problem is your plunger has been pressed and the spring is not strong enough to over come the drag from gum on the plunger and pull it back down (out).

post-546-0-49609800-1329443586_thumb.jpg

Some vibration or fluids may unstick it. May not.

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I have a pair of "plungers" (used) for a TD-20. Don't know if they can be used on your dozer. If you need them, I need your pump part # & serial #. to see if they will work.

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All plunger assemblies are the same. Only difference is the groove cut into the plunger itself and in a few cases the plunger is larger in diameter.

This is a Farmall 450 plunger assembly next to one from a TD18.

post-546-0-51928300-1329688294_thumb.jpg

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Well i am still having a problem with my td20 it runs on gas perfect but when i change it to diesel there is no fire. i have diesel to all injectors it just wont fire up any ideas.

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Try checking that your starting valves are seating properly. I have known them bend the stems and when started from a long rest they get stuck in the guides. When was the last time it ran properly? Does it white smoke (unburnt fuel), if not are you absolutely sure diesel is getting into the combustion chambers? Hope this helps.

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hoe can you tell if fuel is getting into combustion chambers and i tried either on diesel side it fire on either but nothing on diesel how can i time the pump because i had one plunger stuck and rack is moving so i dont know if i took it out of time on pump side

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If no white smoke when throwing onto diesel, then chances are there is no fuel getting into the combustion chambers. Unless you took your pump off to do the work it is unlikely the timeing will be 'out'. There are quite a lot of things you should look at and it would be best if you can beg, borrow or steal a shop manual. Hopefully someone might give more info on this forum. Just one thought (apologies if I underestimate your knowledge of IH start procedure) did you shift the throttle lever to about half when throwing the decompressor lever? I have known folk assume it automatically applied sufficient diesel for a start - just a thought.

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There is no white smoke the throttle is in full position. The only thing i can think it is the starting vales are bent or stuck in gas mode what do you guess it is???.

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There is no white smoke the throttle is in full position. The only thing i can think it is the starting vales are bent or stuck in gas mode what do you guess it is???.

I'm no expert on the TD-20's engine, but my guess is that if you remove all of the spark plugs and crank the engine while set for diesel mode that you can find the cylinders that are not closing properly. I would expect a lot of air movement through the spark plug hole when the starting valve doesn't seat properly.

For the experts - does this sound like a reasonable test?

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That does sound reasonable, though I'm thinking less air movement through the offending hole as the starting valve open will build less compression.........don't overdue the cranking as you have way more compression on diesel and will fry the starter........You have that tall hood on the TD20, it may be easier to pull off the valve cover and look at the starting valves there. If one is stuck down apply some oil to the stem and gently tap it to free it up.

I think the flapper thingy may not be switching......it's behind the intake manifold tucked away, has a steel V with a rod, when it's running on gas have your diesel throttle in about 1/3 position, this should help prime the pump to the injectors........

I'll see if I can scan the pump timing at the coupler and the flapper thingy tonight..........

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