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weathda

466 rear main seal

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Hi experts. Does anyone know if there is a difference between the rear seal on an DT466 depending on it's application? Would the seal be different for construction equipment (specifically Dresser 175C) and say a piece of AG equipment? We're replacing the engine in our 175C and ordered a reman AG engine. The seal that came in our gasket set looks different (cheaper) than the old one. The one we took out was a National 8971HA made in the USA and has a front and back inner lip with a front and back spring. The one in the gasket set looks like a generic and just has a metal ring on the inside with a bevel on front and back. We're a little scared of the seal in the set.

Komatsu dealer wants $166 !!

Case/IH dealer wants $66

Independant seal places want about $60 for the double lip seal with the sleeve sold seperately.

Unfortunately, no one has it in stock and so we can't compare with what we have on either seal.

For now we've ordered one from the Case/IH dealer. The flywheel will mount to the torque converter which will be oiled from the other side.

Will the AG seal work? Any thoughts?

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I just had the same thing happen with my DT414. I too, ordered one from CASEIH but the seal was the same. I asked the service guy about it, he said they went to this style seal and said no problems to date.

Tom

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HY Capacity should have the seal you need in teflon or neoprene for $39.00 Teflon and $60.00 neoprene.

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Thanks Tom. I was afraid of that. The engine manual says to install oiled, but the seal from the gasket set has written on it to install dry ?? That's another thing that makes me wonder. We'll know tomorrow. The seal should be here then.

Gonzo, just browsing the web site I didn't see any seals for a 175C, but I did find the two you mention for a combine. Wish they some good pictures on the site. Maybe the seal we have is fine.

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Thanks Tom. I was afraid of that. The engine manual says to install oiled, but the seal from the gasket set has written on it to install dry ?? That's another thing that makes me wonder. We'll know tomorrow. The seal should be here then.

Gonzo, just browsing the web site I didn't see any seals for a 175C, but I did find the two you mention for a combine. Wish they some good pictures on the site. Maybe the seal we have is fine.

Ya, I meant to mention that. FYI, I wrecked my first one trying to install it with the crank seal already on. They need to be pressed on together with the tool.

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The seal mfgs don't want you to even take the seal off the wear sleeve it comes with. At one time, IH had a batch of those rear seals that were installed backwards on the wear sleeve and they had the dealers return them rather than take them off and turn them around. So, as far as installing dry, what ever lube is on the assembled seal is how it is. Some put locktite on the sleeve, I don't.

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There are two different styles of rear seals.

One is for a dry housing such as a tractor. This will be the graphite style seal.

The other is for wet housings. It will be a neoprene double lip seal, keeps engine oil in the engine and transmission oil in the transmission. I'm not sure if you have a wet housing on your unit, but i do know on a TD15B that we redid the engine in, the rear seal was different than one used on a farm tractor or truck.

Best

Ken

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The seal from the dealer doesn't look much different from the one in the gasket set. Maybe a little thicker. Guess this is the new style. The dealer also cautioned about not taking the seal apart from the sleeve...said to throw it away if you do.

Wow ihcscoutman, sounds like you describe the two seals we have. The 175C has a wet housing (oil is on both sides of the seal). The one we took off sounds like the neoprene double lip seal you describe. The one in the gasket set and the one from the CASEIH dealer sounds like the graphite seal. Wonder if we should punt on the two new seals we have and go with the national seal we took out. We can get the same seal for much cheaper than the Komatsu dealer. Is there a chance this new seal from the tractor dealer would work for oil on both sides? It does appear to have a lip on both sides of the wear ring.

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The seal from the dealer doesn't look much different from the one in the gasket set. Maybe a little thicker. Guess this is the new style. The dealer also cautioned about not taking the seal apart from the sleeve...said to throw it away if you do.

Wow ihcscoutman, sounds like you describe the two seals we have. The 175C has a wet housing (oil is on both sides of the seal). The one we took off sounds like the neoprene double lip seal you describe. The one in the gasket set and the one from the CASEIH dealer sounds like the graphite seal. Wonder if we should punt on the two new seals we have and go with the national seal we took out. We can get the same seal for much cheaper than the Komatsu dealer. Is there a chance this new seal from the tractor dealer would work for oil on both sides? It does appear to have a lip on both sides of the wear ring.

DON"T use the ag seal. It will leak trans oil into the engine. Also remember when you install the seal, press it in with the seal installer against the numbers (part number) on the seal.

Best

Ken

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Ken, your responses have been bitter sweet. Sadly, we installed the ag seal yesterday morning before your first response. However, due to your knowledge on the matter, we're planning to pull the old seal off and buy one from the Komatsu dealer or from one of the other seal shops that have the national seal (like original seal).

It seems we found a deadzone of information on the seals for the DT466. The 175C manuals don't dive into the engine and the engine manual we have is for ag tractors. So it wasn't clear that there was a difference other than the looks. Thanks a ton for your insight and experience. The dealers we called were not as confident as you so we're much impressed by the knowledge on the board. You've made a little more work for us, but probably prevented the worst nightmare we could dream up...I can hear it now, "where's all this engine oil coming from!?"

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No problem.

We had this same problem a few years ago. The tech almost put an ag seal in the engine. We got the right one from Komatsu and it was totally different than the ag seal.. Case IH also had a bulletin on this as well. The CDC (Cummins)engines use the same style of seal. They specify different seals for wet or dry housings.

Glad to help.

Best

Ken

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Question for anyone. Which of these two sources would you get the seal from?

1) Komatsu dealer claims the seal will come from Dressta and says it is a double lip seal but doesn't exactly know if is the same seal we took off (National 8971HA). They have their own part number. They want $166 for the seal + wear ring.

2) Local independant seal and bearing shop can get the exact same National seal that came out of it. They want $60 for the seal and $80 for the wear ring.

Which would you get?

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Good seal information. Things like this are a common problem, covered in a service bulletin which of course when you are no longer connected to a dealership you don't have access to. I am going to ask my old reliable parts man if he can locate this bulletin as they should all be on their computers now days. I used to be the one who filed all of them in my day, they weren't on computer then. I have a lot of the older ones, bought on auction from a close out dealer. Still refer to them now and then. Also noted you referred to CDC (Consolidated Diesel Corp) engines. Most just call it Cummins, and of course we all know it was a new line of engines developed in equal partnership between Case and Cummins and no relation to the PT fuel system type larger Cummins engines. Now days of course, they have gone their own ways I understand.

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Question for anyone. Which of these two sources would you get the seal from?

1) Komatsu dealer claims the seal will come from Dressta and says it is a double lip seal but doesn't exactly know if is the same seal we took off (National 8971HA). They have their own part number. They want $166 for the seal + wear ring.

2) Local independant seal and bearing shop can get the exact same National seal that came out of it. They want $60 for the seal and $80 for the wear ring.

Which would you get?

Get the Komatsu one.

Ken

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The seal from the dealer doesn't look much different from the one in the gasket set. Maybe a little thicker. Guess this is the new style. The dealer also cautioned about not taking the seal apart from the sleeve...said to throw it away if you do.

Wow ihcscoutman, sounds like you describe the two seals we have. The 175C has a wet housing (oil is on both sides of the seal). The one we took off sounds like the neoprene double lip seal you describe. The one in the gasket set and the one from the CASEIH dealer sounds like the graphite seal. Wonder if we should punt on the two new seals we have and go with the national seal we took out. We can get the same seal for much cheaper than the Komatsu dealer. Is there a chance this new seal from the tractor dealer would work for oil on both sides? It does appear to have a lip on both sides of the wear ring.

DON"T use the ag seal. It will leak trans oil into the engine. Also remember when you install the seal, press it in with the seal installer against the numbers (part number) on the seal.

Best

Ken

Gday weathda ,I recently had the same problem on my Hough h80 b (dt466 engine) I got the case seal but quoted the construction part no which crossed over into ag applications seal was black with a yellow paper wiper seal on the torque converter side I was dubious that it was the right seal so took it to a seal/bearing shop I i use they took one look at it and said yup thats the right seal. Allso said that thay work heaps better than old stlye, anyway its been fitted for 100hrs and isnt leaking yet! make sure you get the install tool cause its impossible without oh yeah you can pull them off the sleave and reinstall but it isnt recomended allso install dry hope this helps Craig

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Craig, that's interesting. The seal from the CaseIH dealer did have a yellow wiper seal on it. One thing that makes me wonder is that the CaseIH dealer didn't ask about the application as if it's a one type fits all. We went ahead and ordered the one from Komatsu. They said it would come out of California and would take a week to get it. I'll laugh and cry if it's the same seal. Glad you have no leaks. Thanks for the info.

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no worries just sorry I didnt read your post earlier I hate the fact that You can't get reliable info from the guys selling the parts . We see it more and more over here in aussie, all the best Craig

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all I can say is beg,borrow or steal the CORRECT installation tool it has a plate that bolts to the crank and has a tube that is forced with a nut to press the seal on it also sets the depth of the wear sleeve and seal, after it's in check the depth of the seal against the lip on the flywheel,the flywheel must not touch the seal or it (obviously) chews it out.

Have fun, Andrew

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Yeah, we were lucky enough to be able to borrow the installer before. Maybe we can borrow the same one again. I've seen them listed for anywhere between $250 to $300.

For the record, got the seal from the Komatsu place today and it was different than the AG seal. The one from Komatsu was a double lip silicon National seal - same as the original one that came out of the old engine.

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