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1206SWMO

They Say That His Goal Is To Farm 100,000 Acres

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At the family gathering last night, I talked with my niece’s husband. I believe the things that I was told. He knows RR from FFA and was in the same house at the U of I. He said that if anyone was capable of running 55,000 to 100,000 acres, he could do it. He also said that a favorite tactic used, is to send out checks to people that have land, with out specifying plainly what they were for, that when signed to be cashed, created a long term rental agreement, sometimes lower than the prevailing rate. There were people who rented out ground, and had no idea that they had done so. Legal? Yes. Ethical? Not to me. You can say that it is the people's own fault and to a certain extent it is, but I would hate to think that's the way business needs to be conducted.

He also said that RR farms in Michigan and Arkansas also. He leases his equipment from the local John Deere dealers. In Arkansas he has just less than 10,000 acres that he put in the wheat this fall. The local Deere dealer didn't want lease the equipment, so Deere was contacted and the dealer was forced to lease.

You can say all this is jealousy that I bring this up, but I don't care if someone has more than I do. I just hope that this doesn't end the way that a similar thing ended at Vandalia, Illinois 25 to 30 years ago. There was an estate attorney, WC, who had built up a reputation of being one of the best in farm estate planning. He had people coming long distances for his services. Sometime he decided to farm big time, and it was said that he started to insert himself and the beneficiary or that he could lease the land very cheaply with out the client’s knowledge. He was said to be farming 11,000 acres, and then things collapsed. He then supposedly killed himself in his car with the exhaust. I say supposedly because I attended the liquidation auction and there was talk that he made it to South America because you could not recognize the body. It was also said that it wouldn't be a surprise if it was a murder committed by some of the people that were swindled. Most of this was most probably BS, but it created a big mess that took years to straighten out.

Your Kidding right???????:) That boy is one operator.:)

Funny it didnt mention that in the magazine article.:):)

Must not had enough room for the finer details.:):) What a joke:)

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At the family gathering last night, I talked with my niece’s husband. I believe the things that I was told. He knows RR from FFA and was in the same house at the U of I. He said that if anyone was capable of running 55,000 to 100,000 acres, he could do it. He also said that a favorite tactic used, is to send out checks to people that have land, with out specifying plainly what they were for, that when signed to be cashed, created a long term rental agreement, sometimes lower than the prevailing rate. There were people who rented out ground, and had no idea that they had done so. Legal? Yes. Ethical? Not to me. You can say that it is the people's own fault and to a certain extent it is, but I would hate to think that's the way business needs to be conducted.

He also said that RR farms in Michigan and Arkansas also. He leases his equipment from the local John Deere dealers. In Arkansas he has just less than 10,000 acres that he put in the wheat this fall. The local Deere dealer didn't want lease the equipment, so Deere was contacted and the dealer was forced to lease.

You can say all this is jealousy that I bring this up, but I don't care if someone has more than I do. I just hope that this doesn't end the way that a similar thing ended at Vandalia, Illinois 25 to 30 years ago. There was an estate attorney, WC, who had built up a reputation of being one of the best in farm estate planning. He had people coming long distances for his services. Sometime he decided to farm big time, and it was said that he started to insert himself and the beneficiary or that he could lease the land very cheaply with out the client’s knowledge. He was said to be farming 11,000 acres, and then things collapsed. He then supposedly killed himself in his car with the exhaust. I say supposedly because I attended the liquidation auction and there was talk that he made it to South America because you could not recognize the body. It was also said that it wouldn't be a surprise if it was a murder committed by some of the people that were swindled. Most of this was most probably BS, but it created a big mess that took years to straighten out.

Very interesting reading!I have no problems with people being successful as long as they are ethical but!!!

I just got off the phone after a very interesting conversation about the huge new 15-20 million dollar 3000 cow dairy farm thats not far from me.The news wasnt all good.It explains another phone call that I got recently wanting to buy some of my farm machinery.

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Very interesting reading!I have no problems with people being successful as long as they are ethical but!!!

I just got off the phone after a very interesting conversation about the huge new 15-20 million dollar 3000 cow dairy farm thats not far from me.The news wasnt all good.It explains another phone call that I got recently wanting to buy some of my farm machinery.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Don't tease us Blaine. I'd like to hear a little more about the Kiwi's!

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If you can figure out a scheme to make the farm program actually benefit the farmer instead of the landholder, perhaps you would have a point, but so far that has not been accomplished.

The industry would be a lot better off if the government left us alone. Farmland price support payments don't do farming any good, that's for sure.

The LDP's have benifited farmers in the past. DCP/CCP's also go to the farm operator and not the land owner if the farm operator has a 100% interest in the crop as would be the case in a cash rent arrangement. About all I can think of right off hand that would benifit a landowner is CRP payments and EQUIP money. Even with EQUIP, if its applied correctly, eventually it will pay off for the farm operator in reduced soilerosion and so forth.

Would you offer the same cash rent for a farm that had no LDP or DCP/CCP's as you would for a farm with nice payments? If the answer is NO then the govt. payments are benefitting the land owner. Most farm payments use the tenant as a conduit to get the money to the owner whether we like it or not. Crop share changes the game a little since both share in the money but still a farm with no payments will likely draw a smaller % share rent.

FWIW I cash rent less than 3% of what I farm and hope to keep it that way. With the exception of 150 acres, every bit of land I've picked up in the last 13 years the previous tenant retired or went broke. Its survival of the fittest. I think crop share is a better way to share the risks and rewards than straight cash. Most of the ground in my area goes for a similar share rent depending how many expenses are shared but they all work out pretty close in the end. In cases like this its in the owners best interest to rent to the person they feel will make the best crop and maintain the land for years to come.

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At the family gathering last night, I talked with my niece’s husband. I believe the things that I was told. He knows RR from FFA and was in the same house at the U of I. He said that if anyone was capable of running 55,000 to 100,000 acres, he could do it. He also said that a favorite tactic used, is to send out checks to people that have land, with out specifying plainly what they were for, that when signed to be cashed, created a long term rental agreement, sometimes lower than the prevailing rate. There were people who rented out ground, and had no idea that they had done so. Legal? Yes. Ethical? Not to me. You can say that it is the people's own fault and to a certain extent it is, but I would hate to think that's the way business needs to be conducted.

He also said that RR farms in Michigan and Arkansas also. He leases his equipment from the local John Deere dealers. In Arkansas he has just less than 10,000 acres that he put in the wheat this fall. The local Deere dealer didn't want lease the equipment, so Deere was contacted and the dealer was forced to lease.

You can say all this is jealousy that I bring this up, but I don't care if someone has more than I do. I just hope that this doesn't end the way that a similar thing ended at Vandalia, Illinois 25 to 30 years ago. There was an estate attorney, WC, who had built up a reputation of being one of the best in farm estate planning. He had people coming long distances for his services. Sometime he decided to farm big time, and it was said that he started to insert himself and the beneficiary or that he could lease the land very cheaply with out the client’s knowledge. He was said to be farming 11,000 acres, and then things collapsed. He then supposedly killed himself in his car with the exhaust. I say supposedly because I attended the liquidation auction and there was talk that he made it to South America because you could not recognize the body. It was also said that it wouldn't be a surprise if it was a murder committed by some of the people that were swindled. Most of this was most probably BS, but it created a big mess that took years to straighten out.

Your Kidding right???????:) That boy is one operator.:)

Funny it didnt mention that in the magazine article.:):)

Must not had enough room for the finer details.:):) What a joke:)

I remember this guy and I to attended his auction .People still bring him up once in a while

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What I would like to know is where the money is coming from to support this little farming adventure. As tight as things are going to get with credit cards and housing problems along with $100 crude. What kind of bank in their right mind would loan money along with the fact this ethanol thing could crash anytime. Say bye-bye to $4 corn. Bodyguard my a........ what a show, ought to be on TV.:):) Like I say seen it all before in this area.

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Very interesting reading!I have no problems with people being successful as long as they are ethical but!!!

I just got off the phone after a very interesting conversation about the huge new 15-20 million dollar 3000 cow dairy farm thats not far from me.The news wasnt all good.It explains another phone call that I got recently wanting to buy some of my farm machinery.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Don't tease us Blaine. I'd like to hear a little more about the Kiwi's!

Chad,I'll PM you later this eve.

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The LDP's have benifited farmers in the past. DCP/CCP's also go to the farm operator and not the land owner if the farm operator has a 100% interest in the crop as would be the case in a cash rent arrangement. About all I can think of right off hand that would benifit a landowner is CRP payments and EQUIP money. Even with EQUIP, if its applied correctly, eventually it will pay off for the farm operator in reduced soilerosion and so forth.

Would you offer the same cash rent for a farm that had no LDP or DCP/CCP's as you would for a farm with nice payments? If the answer is NO then the govt. payments are benefitting the land owner. Most farm payments use the tenant as a conduit to get the money to the owner whether we like it or not. Crop share changes the game a little since both share in the money but still a farm with no payments will likely draw a smaller % share rent.

FWIW I cash rent less than 3% of what I farm and hope to keep it that way. With the exception of 150 acres, every bit of land I've picked up in the last 13 years the previous tenant retired or went broke. Its survival of the fittest. I think crop share is a better way to share the risks and rewards than straight cash. Most of the ground in my area goes for a similar share rent depending how many expenses are shared but they all work out pretty close in the end. In cases like this its in the owners best interest to rent to the person they feel will make the best crop and maintain the land for years to come.

RAB has it 100% correct. If you think payments accrue to anyone other then the landholder you should have stayed awake in Intermediate Microeconomics and Prod Econ.

What I would like to know is where the money is coming from to support this little farming adventure. As tight as things are going to get with credit cards and housing problems along with $100 crude. What kind of bank in their right mind would loan money along with the fact this ethanol thing could crash anytime. Say bye-bye to $4 corn. Bodyguard my a........ what a show, ought to be on TV.:):) Like I say seen it all before in this area.

Judging from the articles I have read about the guy in question, I doubt he is silly enough to go this far out on a limb without having things pretty tightly buttoned up. There's no reason for a lender to be shy at all about financing an operator with a cash rent contract, crop insurance, hedged grain, and inputs already contracted, and a track record of successful growth to boot. Where is the risk in that?

He also said that a favorite tactic used, is to send out checks to people that have land, with out specifying plainly what they were for, that when signed to be cashed, created a long term rental agreement, sometimes lower than the prevailing rate. There were people who rented out ground, and had no idea that they had done so. Legal? Yes. Ethical? Not to me. You can say that it is the people's own fault and to a certain extent it is, but I would hate to think that's the way business needs to be conducted.

If that were somehow true, which I find highly doubtful....the laws are pretty clear about real estate contracts.... the fact remains that it is never going to work for more then one try. He's been farming a lot more then one year, is the claim here that he replaces 100% of his land EVERY YEAR with new rentals, or that people are being "suckered" initially but then for some inexplainable reason decide to continue to rent to the same guy who "suckered" them? Either way, I find it a bit hard to believe.

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Plowboy; There is more to this guys story then what you read. You are being told just what you need to know. There were a couple fellas up here not as many acres doing about the same thing, their motto was they wanted to farm everything that bordered them. Well to do this they had other sideline busisness going on if you follow me. :) :) Farming, a good way to laundry some cash.:) are you with me:) on this:)

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Plowboy; There is more to this guys story then what you read. You are being told just what you need to know. There were a couple fellas up here not as many acres doing about the same thing, their motto was they wanted to farm everything that bordered them. Well to do this they had other sideline busisness going on if you follow me. :) :) Farming, a good way to laundry some cash.:) are you with me:) on this:)

Sure would give the "bodyguard" thing a bit more necessity ;)

Shame the reporters don't actually do any research and instead become more of a public relations tool.

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Plowboy; There is more to this guys story then what you read. You are being told just what you need to know. There were a couple fellas up here not as many acres doing about the same thing, their motto was they wanted to farm everything that bordered them. Well to do this they had other sideline busisness going on if you follow me. :) :) Farming, a good way to laundry some cash.:) are you with me:) on this:)

Sure would give the "bodyguard" thing a bit more necessity ;)

Shame the reporters don't actually do any research and instead become more of a public relations tool.

Yep I agree. Heres another story a fella here going wild on land. Come to find out has a pro basketball player on the sidelines. The story I heard 18 million a year for land. I realize he will wear out in basketball but for the time being hes got the cash. Sure would make farming fun knowing you got that kind of cash backing you.:) There is always a catch to these stories. He.....l people work all their lives to pay for a couple hundred acres and bring up some kids and watch how they spend every penny. Then one of these clowns comes along and puts on a clown show and makes a mess. Then someone else has to put the whole mess back together again, because their off starting another "big plan".:) Idiots..

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Yep I agree. Heres another story a fella here going wild on land. Come to find out has a pro basketball player on the sidelines. The story I heard 18 million a year for land. I realize he will wear out in basketball but for the time being hes got the cash. Sure would make farming fun knowing you got that kind of cash backing you.:) There is always a catch to these stories. He.....l people work all their lives to pay for a couple hundred acres and bring up some kids and watch how they spend every penny. Then one of these clowns comes along and puts on a clown show and makes a mess. Then someone else has to put the whole mess back together again, because their off starting another "big plan".:) Idiots..

Sounds like a smart pro basketball player, sinking that kind of change into real property which is going to produce a return after his career is over, instead of just burning it all off on 'lifestyle.' He should be putting on seminars for his peers.

I think farming tens of thousands of acres would be a pretty time consuming way to launder money, but hey, it makes a better story then some of the others.

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I'm going to keep staying out of this except for one thing: a person shouldn't believe everything they read in a magazine.

Neighbor up the road got wrote up practically everywhere-- including one article in a slick farm monthly that was published six months after he sold his (actually, the bank's) cows and rented the farm out.

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They liked to farm. New equipment the best of everything, what ever they wanted they got. Worked great the boys were on top of the world until "One Day" the party was over. Heres one more story. A guy diaryman married,has a child with health problems, up against the wall needs $40,000. Robs the local bank. He gets caught sentenced to around 10 years. Been several years ago when this happened but last I heard a book or movie deal was in the making. How do you like that story??:)

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It's not uncommon at all to have outside money in a farm operation. Several of the larger farms locally have more than one "silent" partner.

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another thought here:

if i need a silent partner, I'm probably doing something wrong. Silent partners, I cant personally imagine being silent when someone else is playing with my money. SO, esentially you are working for someone else again...hmmm. may as well go to town and get a job and come home after 8 hours, than to bust your balls farming for someone else.

I think the vast majority of us do this thing because we like to work for ourselves? Or at least that is a significant reason.

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another thought here:

if i need a silent partner, I'm probably doing something wrong. Silent partners, I cant personally imagine being silent when someone else is playing with my money. SO, esentially you are working for someone else again...hmmm. may as well go to town and get a job and come home after 8 hours, than to bust your balls farming for someone else.

I think the vast majority of us do this thing because we like to work for ourselves? Or at least that is a significant reason.

Nailed it again Jason.....

At least those are my thoughts on this matter....

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it is not just the BTO farmers that die young ,

CEO"s of companies , and others under lots of stress die young ,or have health problems .

look around ,most of those high achievers die earlier than a common man .

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It wouldn't take much, especially for some people when they see a check the size he would be presenting them with. Is it legal, I bet it is, but I do not know the law inside out either. Besides if it is a long term contract, say 15-20 years that would explain why he can continue on with the size he is. Quite often I get checks in the mail stating that by cashing it they have a lean against my vehicle, house(Of which I do not own one), even got a $5 check that when cashed signed me up for one of those stupid cash back programs and the card would be charged $145. Is that ethical, I don't belive so, but I doubt somebody like Visa or Mastercard would be stupid enough to do a program like that if their lawyers hadn't checked to make sure it was legal first.

My sister brother-in-laws got out of farming when Pioneer cut seedcorn acres a couple years ago and a guy approched them about renting their farms, all the biggest and greenest of equipment and they are embarressed by the huge piles of corn left when a guy misses the trucks unloading, etc. But they sure like the big rent check and laugh at the huge amount they are willing to pay him when they are barley hauling 200bpa out of the field. The story from them is, once again, he has some big financial backer out of Chicago.

I have to wounder what will happen if/when the bubble blows on the grain markets. Will the guys with these high $$$$$$ rents just piss and moan until the feds put them back on "wellfare", or will they just quite farming the rental ground? Maybe this is not the 70's/80's all over again, I do not know, but I do know some guys who came out of that looking mighty good and they had little if any help.

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I have a question for those that dare to answer.Remember,I'm just playing devils advocate here.I'm off from work for 11 days and have far too much free time. :)

Lets say that you are already sucessfully farming 3000 acres,have access to unlimited funds,and have decided that you want to farm 100,000 acres.Do you think that within 5 years time you could rent up 97,000 more acres within 100 miles from home?To start with you would of course have to live in a large area of mostly tillable ground.

There are no holds barred and anything goes.You dont care what people think of you.Ethics are out the window.You are going to knock on every door (even current farmers that own and farm their own land) and call every land owner within 100 miles offering them more cash rent per acre up front than they have ever seen before,but still allow yourself to make only a very small profit per acre in a good year.When you get over 30 miles from home most arent going to even know you.

Does the dollar talk loudly enough that loyalty goes out the window and 97,000 acres could easily be picked up?Would most dump their current renter of 20 years as fast as they could or will loyalty to a current renter thats paying the going cash rent make them say no thanks,I'm happy with my current renter.Go take your offer elsewhere.

To start with Im probably going to have offer $20 per acre over the customary rate for this area of east Kansas-west Missouri.If needed I'll offer up to $40 more which leaves my profit margin razor thin.Does everyone have their price if the offer is high enough?Will they even give the current renter a chance?

Maybe I'm wrong,but I'm guessing that I would have alot of trouble in my area.I think that enough land lords understand things and are happy enough with their current renters that I might never pick up all the ground to reach my goal.To start with there are no cash rent auctions in my area yet,but I can see the day coming.If I could pick up 5-10,000 acres at cash rent auctions it would sure help.

In my favor I do know of about 4 large farms locally where the owners are fastly approaching retirement age with no one to take over.They might be the easiest ones to get.

What do you think? Could you or I end up with 100,000 acres?If I did,I doubt that I could ever get it all planted and harvested as I'd be moving too much.The fields are too small and the weather is far too fickle.For my area finding and keeping quality help would be an issue.It would take $15 per hour plus insurance.With machinery as big and as expensive as it is,I want good help.

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I have a question for those that dare to answer.Remember,I'm just playing devils advocate here.I'm off from work for 11 days and have far too much free time. :)

Lets say that you are already sucessfully farming 3000 acres,have access to unlimited funds,and have decided that you want to farm 100,000 acres.Do you think that within 5 years time you could rent up 97,000 more acres within 100 miles from home?To start with you would of course have to live in a large area of mostly tillable ground.

There are no holds barred and anything goes.You dont care what people think of you.Ethics are out the window.You are going to knock on every door (even current farmers that own and farm their own land) and call every land owner within 100 miles offering them more cash rent per acre up front than they have ever seen before,but still allow yourself to make only a very small profit per acre in a good year.When you get over 30 miles from home most arent going to even know you.

Does the dollar talk loudly enough that loyalty goes out the window and 97,000 acres could easily be picked up?Would most dump their current renter of 20 years as fast as they could or will loyalty to a current renter thats paying the going cash rent make them say no thanks,I'm happy with my current renter.Go take your offer elsewhere.

To start with Im probably going to have offer $20 per acre over the customary rate for this area of east Kansas-west Missouri.If needed I'll offer up to $40 more which leaves my profit margin razor thin.Does everyone have their price if the offer is high enough?Will they even give the current renter a chance?

Maybe I'm wrong,but I'm guessing that I would have alot of trouble in my area.I think that enough land lords understand things and are happy enough with their current renters that I might never pick up all the ground to reach my goal.To start with there are no cash rent auctions in my area yet,but I can see the day coming.If I could pick up 5-10,000 acres at cash rent auctions it would sure help.

In my favor I do know of about 4 large farms locally where the owners are fastly approaching retirement age with no one to take over.They might be the easiest ones to get.

What do you think? Could you or I end up with 100,000 acres?If I did,I doubt that I could ever get it all planted and harvested as I'd be moving too much.The fields are too small and the weather is far too fickle.For my area finding and keeping quality help would be an issue.It would take $15 per hour plus insurance.With machinery as big and as expensive as it is,I want good help.

$15.00 and hour wont even get you bad help locally.

To me, your whole scenario is quite short. "YOU" or "I" dont have to do all the farming. So, if "I" were to go out for the whole pie as stated earlier, I'd hire a few managers. Or.......go partners with a few managers......The 100,000 acres in no way has to be local. If I could pickup 25,000 acres in the next state with a reasonable distance from each farm, it would work for me. Heck, just give ol' 98j a call and see how big SRS ranch in eastern oregon is. And it aint that big compared to some others in eastern oregon and washington state.

A 100,000 acre farm will have far, far lower inputs than a 1,000 acre farm. Just the buying "power" of that quantity will do it, but if you were well educated and informed in the purchasing of inputs, you could really do some amazing saving. Yes, probably even more than the $40.00 an acre extra you offer the landowner.

Take a look at JR Simplot.

Saving the "family farm" is a noble quest. I like the family farm. I grew up on one, and work on one now. It wont be going away anytime soon. The amount of family farms will however be lower with each passing year. Since you liek to quote things said to you over the years, a wise old man once told me "if you want to control the neighborhood, you'll need to own it". So, as long as you own your piece of land and rent it to a family farm, at least that family farm will continue. That's your choice and I'm sure you would'nt like to have someone take that choice from you. ?? As would others that own land and make their choice to rent to someone else for their own reasons dont want that choice taken from them.

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$15.00 and hour wont even get you bad help locally.

I have the advantage already as I live in an area of cheap labor.The ave job around here pays $10-12 an hour.I know quite a few people with a farm background that would work for $15 per hour and ins.

Several years ago I was visiting with a guy that I know that farms about 4000 acres.He had just lost his hired man of years for more wages and health ins.He wanted to know if I knew of anyone to replace him.I said what do you pay and he said $10 per hour with no ins.I told him that I didnt know of anyone.

I dont think that the family farm will be going away soon.It will just keep getting bigger as fewer and fewer want to get in to farming nor can afford to.

I personally dont think that the guy in Illinois will ever reach 100,000 acres.

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OP has it right about inputs. I used to work for a company (largest contractor in North America for school buses) They were buying about 6000 buses a year from Navistar..........that translates into Navistar doing whatever you want. We bought parts from them cheaper than the lowest pricing the dealer had.....about ten percent below their lowest price sheet.

Another outfit locally buys a lot of one ton 4x4 Cummins Dodges (they were set up to get two a month) Dodge was taking care of them directly, the dealer was just the drop off point. The dealer sold out to another outfit and the new dealer threw a fit when they found out the setup and wanted no part of it.......not sure how that one worked out.

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If money wasn't an issue I think a guy could reach 100,000 acres and the easiest way to do it would be to buy out farmers and hire them on as help. I think it would be harder to maintain the acres than to reach them because at that size your going to have alot of turnover and most of the neighbors are going to hate you. `I remember reading an article in a farm magazine a few years ago where a guy had dropped from around 30,000 acres to less than 10,000 and said he was more profitable and much happier with the smaller acreages. He felt like once he hit 10,000 acres the economics of scale started going backwards and with all the hired labor it was a constant headache.

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You cant for any amount of money hire anyone you can trust with a $200,000 tractor. Ill take that back, there are a few, but why would they wnat to help you? Then there are the ones make em mad and they might pit a bucket of sand in the transmission. Cant be done boys. Its been tired before and never has worked. Look at these big diaries have a couple here the milkers dont care if the cows are getting sick just milk em and get done.

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