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1206SWMO

They Say That His Goal Is To Farm 100,000 Acres

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And by the same token we should all hate the likes of C.L. Werner / Werner Enterprise (who by the way farmed about 12 miles from where I now live) or J B Hunt or even Sam Walton.

You say that as if I actually like the guy, or the company he started. I will stear clear of those places as much as possible.

Snowman, I doubt you know them, they are from up by Sandusky, Peters brothers.

As for the Snows, it doesn't suprise me the rate the twins grew the farm that they are not the most liked, but their father is a real nice guy if you ever meet him. He would be the one who owns/operates the sugarbush, along with the dairy farm.

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Well there is a guy here in town that you all wouldnt like then either................. He is a self made man and has money to burn,but to look at him you would swear he couldnt buy a cup of coffee. He started farming along time ago but also got into many things.................. = diversification. Owns part of a bank, heavy equipment salvage in AZ. still farms 1100 acres buys and sells cars and parts or whatever else . He likes to go to the bank withdraw great sums of cash and go to farm auctions that way he doesnt need a letter of credit. I wouldnt mind being like him myself. Does what he wants to with his time NOT what he has to. There is a great difference in those two.

Bash me all you want but yes I myself strive to be successful.

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These guys come around about every 15 years or so. Seen it in my part of the country in fact have a new boy starting in right now. This is nothing new. They go for awhile then something happens, be it going broke, the wife dumps them, or the doctor says you have a problem and I give ya about 6 months. Or the best one and this happened about 15 years ago to one. He was talking along to someone, probably trying to rent some more and he stopped talking "DEAD" right there on the spot. It is funny how things seem to equalize themselves out. I remember Farm Journal had article along time ago, on a guy that was putting tracks on everything and was going to farm most of SE Iowa. Dont know how that boy came out but seems as though there are still alot of farmers down that way. Just flashes in the dark seen it to many times. One thing about this guy his farm sale will be fast.

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How many people do you think DEPEND on him for their living? after all you dont farm that much without help?

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Killer red, successful is one thing, and greed is another.

Where I grew up there is a farm that was started on 160 acres and now covers about 1100. I would guess over 75% owned. The guy who started it invested his money in other places also. Now one son is very, and I mean VERY fruggle, is that the PC word, while the other son knows the markets like you would not belive. The grandson just farms, I suspect will fall victum to the 3 generation unstated law, but only time will tell.

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How many people do you think DEPEND on him for their living? after all you dont farm that much without help?

Keith,

If you are talking about the guy with 55,000 acres I have no idea how many employees he has.I do know that 40-50 farm familes could probably make a living off it if the playing field was fair.They cant when the rent is $30-50 over what it should be.

Weve got two farmers around here in their 70's that have never farmed over 700 acres each.One owns everything and the other rents everything and these old boys net worth would surprise people.Everyone respects the guy with the all rented ground and no one has ever tried to rent the ground away from him.Hes honest and does a great job.The renters landlords are quite wealthy.They built him a new house and machine shed some years ago.He did finally have to buy the buildings and a few acres.

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Ya know it's actually quite humorous to read some of these topics when the majority of the replies are from a one sided, and very short sighted point of view. :D:lol: I mean seriously, confusing success with greed is quite funny. :lol::lol:

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Hi 1206SWMO, just wondering what makes the playing field not fair?? Looks to be capitalism in it's purest form. That's what we want right ??

Reading here I get the feeling if you own land and rent it out you are not entitled to take a profit. The price of an average acre of land here is $3900.00. If you can't at least get 5 or 6 % of the value in rent you might as well sell. Charlie

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I don't know what is defined as "success" but it's pretty clear that this crowd can't stand anyone who excells. Excellence is called "greed" in this strange little world and is for some reason supposed to be proof of some character flaw or some such nonsense.

One would think I would learn to be as smart as RAB and Veggie and some of the others here who are successfully running businesses, and just keep my mouth shut and hide, but for some reason it just rubs me the wrong way when the crowd starts attacking a person who isn't even aware of it for reasons which are not stated or substantiated and then the herd all obediently piles on. I must say that I'm pleased to see a few saner heads have showed up this evening to provide some modicum of decorum.

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All this talk makes me think. :D 15 or 16 years ago when i started farming a guy told me i should give it up.There was no way i could make a living farming 700 acres with that red junk. :angry: I thought my red tractors at that time were great.A 1486,886 and a 3688 was a great fleet.All paid for plus a 1640 combine.When i asked him if his iron was paid for he did not anwser.Since that time i have updated a few pieces iron built a new house which is paid for and bought 320 acres.That same guy no longer farms,went broke buying iron and paying high rents.

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All this talk makes me think. :D 15 or 16 years ago when i started farming a guy told me i should give it up.There was no way i could make a living farming 700 acres with that red junk. :angry: I thought my red tractors at that time were great.A 1486,886 and a 3688 was a great fleet.All paid for plus a 1640 combine.When i asked him if his iron was paid for he did not anwser.Since that time i have updated a few pieces iron built a new house which is paid for and bought 320 acres.That same guy no longer farms,went broke buying iron and paying high rents.

More power to you, persistence paid off. :D

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I don't know what is defined as "success" but it's pretty clear that this crowd can't stand anyone who excells. Excellence is called "greed" in this strange little world and is for some reason supposed to be proof of some character flaw or some such nonsense.

One would think I would learn to be as smart as RAB and Veggie and some of the others here who are successfully running businesses, and just keep my mouth shut and hide, but for some reason it just rubs me the wrong way when the crowd starts attacking a person who isn't even aware of it for reasons which are not stated or substantiated and then the herd all obediently piles on. I must say that I'm pleased to see a few saner heads have showed up this evening to provide some modicum of decorum.

PlowBoy, that is very true, I will bet if a lot of these individuals that are throwing mud around would be the first to rent thier ground to the highest bidder when it comes that time.

Blain, please enlighten me on why we need 40 - 50 falilies makeing a liveing off of 50,000 acres if one farmer can do it better as it looks like he may be doing? Chances are those individuals have since moved on to better avenuses where thier skills are needed. Farming is a business like any other, it is not a life style, not a right, and it should not require welfare to keep an individual in business. Heating and Cooling companys do not get a welfare check, if they are not preforming good they go out of business and someone bigger and better usaly buys them out. Life in America, I love it! Oh, and I will bet IFF dosent even flinch when Congress gets thier $200K cap put on the farm bill. Jon

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I don't know what is defined as "success" but it's pretty clear that this crowd can't stand anyone who excells. Excellence is called "greed" in this strange little world and is for some reason supposed to be proof of some character flaw or some such nonsense.

One would think I would learn to be as smart as RAB and Veggie and some of the others here who are successfully running businesses, and just keep my mouth shut and hide, but for some reason it just rubs me the wrong way when the crowd starts attacking a person who isn't even aware of it for reasons which are not stated or substantiated and then the herd all obediently piles on. I must say that I'm pleased to see a few saner heads have showed up this evening to provide some modicum of decorum.

PlowBoy, that is very true, I will bet if a lot of these individuals that are throwing mud around would be the first to rent thier ground to the highest bidder when it comes that time.

Blain, please enlighten me on why we need 40 - 50 falilies makeing a liveing off of 50,000 acres if one farmer can do it better as it looks like he may be doing? Chances are those individuals have since moved on to better avenuses where thier skills are needed. Farming is a business like any other, it is not a life style, not a right, and it should not require welfare to keep an individual in business. Heating and Cooling companys do not get a welfare check, if they are not preforming good they go out of business and someone bigger and better usaly buys them out. Life in America, I love it! Oh, and I will bet IFF dosent even flinch when Congress gets thier $200K cap put on the farm bill. Jon

I'll tell you why,any Economist will tell you that small business is the backbone of any economy.The inputs purchases by 40-50 farm families add up to a greater economic impact than one big guy both on a local and national basis.The consumer does not generally benefit because the processors absorb the saving of the big guys economics of scale in the form of profit.These guys are nearly always operating on other peoples money and the lenders know when he fails some other fool will step in to babysit their asset.

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Hi 1206SWMO, just wondering what makes the playing field not fair?? Looks to be capitalism in it's purest form. That's what we want right ??

Reading here I get the feeling if you own land and rent it out you are not entitled to take a profit. The price of an average acre of land here is $3900.00. If you can't at least get 5 or 6 % of the value in rent you might as well sell. Charlie

Hi Charlie,

I think that both the landlord and his renter should make a fair profit.They say my ground is worth around $1400 an acre,so I'm getting a 5% return with $70 rent.That should let my renter make at least $70-100 an acre profit on corn in an average year.I myself would sure hate to farm it for less profit.My corn yield for the past 5 years is 123 BPA.Lately we have had alot of problems growing wheat and beans in this area.

If a BTO from 50-100 miles away that I dont even know knocks on my door and offers me $80 per acre I'm not going to kick a friend and neighbor off the place for $10 more per acre.I do not want to be known as a greedy landlord even though it would make good business sense for me.I intend to stay right in the middle of whats being offered.

A nice 720 acre tract of ground that hasnt been crop farmed in many years is up for sealed bids 5 miles from me.The rumor is that nothing less than $80 per acre will be accepted.If thats true then lots will be raising rent in my area and it will soon be $90-100 per acre.I'd sure hate to see high rent squeeze renters down to $25-50 per acre profit in a good year.That means that they have to come up with more and more acres to farm every year.

If ground in western Iowa is worth $3900 per acre then I think $200 per acre rent is probably fair but I dont know your corn yield.As you say,if you cant get a 5% return then you just as well sell it but where could you put the money where its safe?Consumer debt is at 14 trillion dollars now and the dollar is weak.

I'm really not a huge fan of cash rent.It first came to our area in late 1971 and Dad and I lost a good sized chunk of share rented ground to it as Dad was scared of cash rent.The guy got the land owner to sign a contract for $20 per acre for 10 years which came back to haunt the land owner in 1973.The renter farmed 1500 acres total and went busted in 1985.

For many years 1/3rds-2/3rds share rent was the norm in this area.Its still the fairest method of sharing the risk but has pretty much gone by the wayside.In share rent you do need a good and honest farmer to farm your place.That didnt always happen.With share rent a BTO would have a much harder time amassing huge tracts of ground,especially a long ways from home.You are going to want a proven guy that youve known for years farming your place,not someone you dont even know.You are going to want someone that can get the crop in timely.

It looks like the sky is the limit for cash rent in Illinois with $300-400 per acre being offered in some areas.It sounds like the 11,000 acres of U of I ground is renting for $350-400 per acre.The bigger you are,the more you can bid as you are willing to farm it for far less profit per acre.

I may have made some people mad on here but I'm not afraid to speak my mind on controversial issues. :) Youd better enjoy it because I'm taking an extended break from here starting Jan 1st. :):)

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Hes just a "high roller" or sometimes they are called "plungers". When it starts to cave he will just walk away and laugh. Seen that happen also. Its funny as a person gets older they hear these schemes people come up with and you can look back and say. I think thats been done before and it didnt work why should it work now. Because they are smarter,yea right.:)

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I don't think I see anybody on here arguing against being successful. Maybe I'm not reading it right. It's the success at any cost POV that gets irritating. WalMart? I was all for Walmart before they decided they wanted it ALL!! Werner? Hunt? How many smaller trucking companies and owner operators have they put out of business? There's a point where you get past wanting "success", to wanting the whole pie. Then it goes a little far. Top Producer is filled with Whole Pie articles. Sometimes they have good info, but not enough for me to renew my subscription. All you guys that wanna start running aruond the neighborhood knocking on doors and shooting for the moon, just remember, that works both ways. I need to expand too. I've added enterprises, I've rented more ground(could use some more, I'll admit) but I certainly don't think I need a gun and a bodygaurd.

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I guess I might as well throw my 2 cents in here too. While I don't condone the guy's business practices of knocking on land owners doors I see nothing wrong with actually farming that much ground. The playing field is level whether you want to believe it or not. He's not getting any special FSA subsidies because he's farming that much ground....on the contrary I would imagine he's leaving some money on the table because he can't collect them all OR he's spending $$$$ with attorneys to write leases and set up corps. to utilize all possible legal means of collection.

I can't count the number of times I've heard the song and dance about "it doesn't take that much ground to make a living". It all depends on what kind of living you aspire to make....if $24K is enough for you so be it. I personally feel my talents and management capabilities are worth considerably more than that. Do I want to make enough to finance an early retirement or do I want to work until I can't go anymore? Thats another question we'll all have to answer for ourselves. I think many on this board will fall into the latter category and thats perfectly alright. I know lots of people who would rather be on the farm than vacationing with family......thats their choice and its OK but its definitely not mine. I love to farm and would hate to have to do anything else but in the end its a means to make a living.

Gotta run, family is arriving for Christmas. I may post more later.

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I don't know what is defined as "success" but it's pretty clear that this crowd can't stand anyone who excells. Excellence is called "greed" in this strange little world and is for some reason supposed to be proof of some character flaw or some such nonsense.

One would think I would learn to be as smart as RAB and Veggie and some of the others here who are successfully running businesses, and just keep my mouth shut and hide, but for some reason it just rubs me the wrong way when the crowd starts attacking a person who isn't even aware of it for reasons which are not stated or substantiated and then the herd all obediently piles on. I must say that I'm pleased to see a few saner heads have showed up this evening to provide some modicum of decorum.

PlowBoy, that is very true, I will bet if a lot of these individuals that are throwing mud around would be the first to rent thier ground to the highest bidder when it comes that time.

Blain, please enlighten me on why we need 40 - 50 falilies makeing a liveing off of 50,000 acres if one farmer can do it better as it looks like he may be doing? Chances are those individuals have since moved on to better avenuses where thier skills are needed. Farming is a business like any other, it is not a life style, not a right, and it should not require welfare to keep an individual in business. Heating and Cooling companys do not get a welfare check, if they are not preforming good they go out of business and someone bigger and better usaly buys them out. Life in America, I love it! Oh, and I will bet IFF dosent even flinch when Congress gets thier $200K cap put on the farm bill. Jon

Jon,again you didnt dissappoint me as we seldom agree but I do agree that the govt needs to be out of farming..40-50 farm families on 55,000 acres that buy close to home are much better for your local economy than one big guy that may buy 50-100 miles away.

Lots of my neighbors were forced out of farming in the 1980's and most will tell you that they never enjoyed their new jobs.Farming was always their number one love.Lots drove trucks and hated being away from their families.

The wealth in this country is fastly transferring in to the hands of a few people which many will say is great because its Capitalism at its finest.

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Blain, please enlighten me on why we need 40 - 50 falilies makeing a liveing off of 50,000 acres if one farmer can do it better as it looks like he may be doing? Chances are those individuals have since moved on to better avenuses where thier skills are needed. Farming is a business like any other, it is not a life style, not a right, and it should not require welfare to keep an individual in business. Heating and Cooling companys do not get a welfare check, if they are not preforming good they go out of business and someone bigger and better usaly buys them out. Life in America, I love it! Oh, and I will bet IFF dosent even flinch when Congress gets thier $200K cap put on the farm bill. Jon

John, I respectfully disagree with that.

I dont see how 1 BTO that lives out of the county, out of the state or where ever and buys all their inputs and supplies non locally is better for a local economy than 40-50 families that live in the area, pay taxes, send kids to school, contribute to the community and buy locally from local businesses. As far as welfare not being offered to heating and cooling companies, they can set their own prices. If the farmers put up with the government and the rest of the 97% of the publics noses in their business, then they might as well get govt money or breaks like all the other companies get when they grease the palms of the politicians, like tax breaks, money for research, etc. I dont see how 3% of the population that feeds the world should miss out on "welfare" as you want to call it if the other 97% is telling them how much money they need to be making. :D

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If you can figure out a scheme to make the farm program actually benefit the farmer instead of the landholder, perhaps you would have a point, but so far that has not been accomplished.

The industry would be a lot better off if the government left us alone. Farmland price support payments don't do farming any good, that's for sure.

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If you can figure out a scheme to make the farm program actually benefit the farmer instead of the landholder, perhaps you would have a point, but so far that has not been accomplished.

The industry would be a lot better off if the government left us alone. Farmland price support payments don't do farming any good, that's for sure.

The LDP's have benifited farmers in the past. DCP/CCP's also go to the farm operator and not the land owner if the farm operator has a 100% interest in the crop as would be the case in a cash rent arrangement. About all I can think of right off hand that would benifit a landowner is CRP payments and EQUIP money. Even with EQUIP, if its applied correctly, eventually it will pay off for the farm operator in reduced soilerosion and so forth.

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I guess I might as well throw my 2 cents in here too. While I don't condone the guy's business practices of knocking on land owners doors I see nothing wrong with actually farming that much ground. The playing field is level whether you want to believe it or not. He's not getting any special FSA subsidies because he's farming that much ground....on the contrary I would imagine he's leaving some money on the table because he can't collect them all OR he's spending $$$$ with attorneys to write leases and set up corps. to utilize all possible legal means of collection.

I can't count the number of times I've heard the song and dance about "it doesn't take that much ground to make a living". It all depends on what kind of living you aspire to make....if $24K is enough for you so be it. I personally feel my talents and management capabilities are worth considerably more than that. Do I want to make enough to finance an early retirement or do I want to work until I can't go anymore? Thats another question we'll all have to answer for ourselves. I think many on this board will fall into the latter category and thats perfectly alright. I know lots of people who would rather be on the farm than vacationing with family......thats their choice and its OK but its definitely not mine. I love to farm and would hate to have to do anything else but in the end its a means to make a living.

Gotta run, family is arriving for Christmas. I may post more later.

Sorry if I conned you into this RAB :)

I don't believe in actively trying to rent land which someone else is using, but if the owner asks, I am not going to turn it down. The other side of that is that I do not like to see renters paying the same thing they did 30 years ago, taking advantage of owners who don't know any better. I see nothing wrong with a business letting their willingness to pay good rates be known to the public so that prospects might contact them. If land is on the market then I see nothing at all wrong with bidding for it. Any land which is open for bids is already on the market. From the viewpoint of a citizen (as well as by law I would imagine) if a government entity is going to own and rent out farmland then the only acceptable way to do it is by bidding it and taking the best bid. Why should the government rent it for less to one person in favor of another who is willing to pay more? I have not personally seen any 'evidence' that the subject is anything other then ethical. I do not consider anecdotal stories about how so-and-so is supposedly mad at him as any sort of proof of anything. We don't know if so-and-so is just that kind of person or if he has a valid complaint. For all we know, we may not like so-and-so either, if we knew him.

I'm not really interested in what someone else thinks my income "should be." I'm in business to make a profit and that is what business decisions are going to be based on. I guess if someone thinks I make more then I should they are perfectly free to pony up the ante and go show me how they can do it for less. If they do, you won't find me whining about it, you'll find me sharpening the pencil to figure out what I'm missing.

This business, like every business, changes over time. Those of us in it are going to adapt or we are going to quit, that's simply the way it is. It's the way it's always been and I doubt it's going to quit in my lifetime.

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I may have made some people mad on here but I'm not afraid to speak my mind on controversial issues. :)

That sounds pretty much like what everyone else is doing too. There should'nt be any problem with that..................should there?

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At the family gathering last night, I talked with my niece’s husband. I believe the things that I was told. He knows RR from FFA and was in the same house at the U of I. He said that if anyone was capable of running 55,000 to 100,000 acres, he could do it. He also said that a favorite tactic used, is to send out checks to people that have land, with out specifying plainly what they were for, that when signed to be cashed, created a long term rental agreement, sometimes lower than the prevailing rate. There were people who rented out ground, and had no idea that they had done so. Legal? Yes. Ethical? Not to me. You can say that it is the people's own fault and to a certain extent it is, but I would hate to think that's the way business needs to be conducted.

He also said that RR farms in Michigan and Arkansas also. He leases his equipment from the local John Deere dealers. In Arkansas he has just less than 10,000 acres that he put in the wheat this fall. The local Deere dealer didn't want lease the equipment, so Deere was contacted and the dealer was forced to lease.

You can say all this is jealousy that I bring this up, but I don't care if someone has more than I do. I just hope that this doesn't end the way that a similar thing ended at Vandalia, Illinois 25 to 30 years ago. There was an estate attorney, WC, who had built up a reputation of being one of the best in farm estate planning. He had people coming long distances for his services. Sometime he decided to farm big time, and it was said that he started to insert himself and the beneficiary or that he could lease the land very cheaply with out the client’s knowledge. He was said to be farming 11,000 acres, and then things collapsed. He then supposedly killed himself in his car with the exhaust. I say supposedly because I attended the liquidation auction and there was talk that he made it to South America because you could not recognize the body. It was also said that it wouldn't be a surprise if it was a murder committed by some of the people that were swindled. Most of this was most probably BS, but it created a big mess that took years to straighten out.

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