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jkildea

IH 4586

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Found a 4586 to buy but I don't know much about them. Any notorious problems?

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Never owned or ran one, but know that the engine is the weak spot. Have seen quite a few repowered with Cummins. The V-8 may not be a bad engine, but you can't afford to fix it. I am also not sure I like the idea of using 1486 rear ends. Don't get me wrong, they can be cheap horsepower, but I think you should look at a Steiger or Versatile of the same age.

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I have heard of the engines also. Cummins conversions would probably be the way to go. Are the V-8's hard to get parts for?

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They are ok as long as the engine air filters are changed on the prescribed intervals. One of my neighbors has one and he had some transmission input shaft trouble. He took the shaft to a big truck repair shop and they got him the correct new one. His has 6000 hours and the motor runs well. No problems otherwise.

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Anyone know what size engines that were typically put into these machines?

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V800 engine, and we were so glad to see that thing go,and the big green steiger coming in. Run like the wind unless its got a cummins replacement,you dont know what kind of care its had in the last 25 years. They are megggggggggga bucks to rebuild the engine.

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Where's Doc Egor when ya need him!? He can tell you all about those V800 engines, all from firsthand experience.

Last time I checked, about two months ago, a sleeve & piston set from CaseIH was about $850 a hole, give or take a few bucks. Injection pump repair for them can be very pricey as well. Plus, the procedure for adjusting valve lash is very annoying, with shimming of the bridges and all that. Plus, everything on that engine is HEAVY! Out of frame is the best way to work on the engine should major repairs be needed.

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What do you think about replacing the V800 with a cummins? What kind of a ballpark figure do you think I can expect to spend on the replacement?

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Local shop does conversions to Cat or Cummins power for $2500.00 with you providing the replacement motor. I think that is quite a bargain price.

The DVT-800 is simply too costly to overhaul anymore, you can drop $10,000.00 in parts easily on just a standard overhaul. Plus 90% of the shops are not equipped to handle that 6000lb beast either.

45 series had 14 series main frames and 47 series had 15 series main frames.

The key to keeping one of those old birds alive is maintence. Forget about the owner's manual recommendations.....the drivelines should be greased at least once or twice daily.

Both 45 and 47 utilized a Spicer 10sp trans. the 45 had a 1 3/4" input shaft and the 47 had the more industry common 2" shaft.

Beings the 6 cyl replacement engines run slower then the V8 there are some issues with ground speed loss.

Plus don't go smaller then a 400hp rated engine to replace the 300 hp V8 engine in a 45. A Cat or Cummins truck engine is actually a automotive engine and as such is not rated for a 100% duty cycle, therefore you will need to detune it and treat it with care to keep it alive.

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Local shop does conversions to Cat or Cummins power for $2500.00 with you providing the replacement motor. I think that is quite a bargain price.

Geez- that does sound pretty reasonable! That's quite an undertaking lengthing the frame on those beasts to accomadate an inline 6. I've seen a few that back yard mechanics have done and they look pretty cobbled up afterwards.

Has anybody ever heard or seen a 903 (nine-o-nothing :P ) in a 45 or a 47? I know they wouldn't be a whole lot better, but they would be cheaper to work on & would fit better with fewer modifacations.

IH RD

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Has anybody ever heard or seen a 903 (nine-o-nothing :P ) in a 45 or a 47? I

IH RD

Boy they are a loud SOB too. Good friends have a Massey 4X4 with one and it has never been touched. Mind you these are very good keepers of their equipment. They ran it some time without a muffler but the complaints from nearby folks about dishes rattling kind of changed their minds :lol:

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Local shop does conversions to Cat or Cummins power for $2500.00 with you providing the replacement motor. I think that is quite a bargain price.

Geez- that does sound pretty reasonable! That's quite an undertaking lengthing the frame on those beasts to accomadate an inline 6. I've seen a few that back yard mechanics have done and they look pretty cobbled up afterwards.

Has anybody ever heard or seen a 903 (nine-o-nothing :P ) in a 45 or a 47? I know they wouldn't be a whole lot better, but they would be cheaper to work on & would fit better with fewer modifacations.

IH RD

IH RD -

I sure as heck think it's reasonable.

I would never do it for that kind of money...that is for sure!

This guys has jigs built for the frame extension work and has the machine equipment to build the drive adapters to power the hydraulic off of the engine as original.

Tough thing with the cummins is finding the correct from engine cover with the extra provision for another accessory to mount the pump to.

I've always had in the back of my head a idea to try retrofitting a 8V92T detroit in one for fun...someday maybe!

Got a phone call tonight from one of my customers....

His 4890 lost oil pressure and when he drained the oil out of the crank case the plug had a lot of metal filings on it. :(

That particular model tractor has a Saab-Scania 6 cylinder engine in it.

I did a little checking tonight and if a guy thought the IH DVT-800 was a orphan you ought to check into that Saab-Scania engine. :blink:

This is a bad blow to this guy.....a couple years ago I had to replace a complete rear differential in the same tractor as the result of a driveshaft coming loose at road speed and snapping off the pinion.

If anyone out there has any advice as far as where to look for parts for that Saab other then MA case I'd appreciate it.

I'm just worried that if we fix the engine (or replace it) the PS transmission will be the next thing.... :(

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i have a neighbor that put a V-12 deutz in his 4786.you should here that baby scream :blink: they love thier deutz engines,they even swapped a inline 5 into a chevy pickup.

hey doc,i think i would take that case and point its rear end toward the highway and mount a mailbox on it.

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Got a phone call tonight from one of my customers....

His 4890 lost oil pressure and when he drained the oil out of the crank case the plug had a lot of metal filings on it. :(

That particular model tractor has a Saab-Scania 6 cylinder engine in it.

I did a little checking tonight and if a guy thought the IH DVT-800 was a orphan you ought to check into that Saab-Scania engine. :blink:

You ain't kidding there Doc! We had a customer buy the parts to overhaul his Scandia in his 4890 a while back. He had a he!! of a time w/ that thing. First, the crankcase gasket set was backordered for over a month, so he was out his big tillage tractor. Then, he ended up tearing the heads off multiple times to have machine work done & ended up putting all new valves in it. I'd be scared to even know what the total parts $ amount was, but it had to be more than what the tractor was worth, or d@mn near it. Plus, it's not likew the engine spun a bearing or anything. He just figured he had enough hours on the engine that it was time to tear it down & rebuild it! Geez!

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Got a phone call tonight from one of my customers....

His 4890 lost oil pressure and when he drained the oil out of the crank case the plug had a lot of metal filings on it. :(

That particular model tractor has a Saab-Scania 6 cylinder engine in it.

I did a little checking tonight and if a guy thought the IH DVT-800 was a orphan you ought to check into that Saab-Scania engine. :blink:

You ain't kidding there Doc! We had a customer buy the parts to overhaul his Scandia in his 4890 a while back. He had a he!! of a time w/ that thing. First, the crankcase gasket set was backordered for over a month, so he was out his big tillage tractor. Then, he ended up tearing the heads off multiple times to have machine work done & ended up putting all new valves in it. I'd be scared to even know what the total parts $ amount was, but it had to be more than what the tractor was worth, or d@mn near it. Plus, it's not likew the engine spun a bearing or anything. He just figured he had enough hours on the engine that it was time to tear it down & rebuild it! Geez!

Finally got some price quotes from the local Case dealer.

Oil pump $1100.00

Cam $1200.00

No reman rods available, new ones are $1218.00 / each

No oil coolers available

Standard overhaul parts (valves, guides, springs, seats, sleeves & pistons, bearings, oil pump) was running close to $8000.00

That didn't include a new blower, gaskets, water pump, and a new exhaust manifold....lol

This guy's crank is gone....haven't even been able to find one in a salvage yard yet. NLA from mom. If he needs a set of rods it's only another $7300.00 :wacko:

I shot the guy a guestimate of $12,000.00 to $15,000.00 minimum... assuming we can salvage the rods.

Salvage yard offered him $3500.00 for the tractor as is.

If I was the owner, I'd be more then happy to help them load it up. :P

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Got a phone call tonight from one of my customers....

His 4890 lost oil pressure and when he drained the oil out of the crank case the plug had a lot of metal filings on it. :(

That particular model tractor has a Saab-Scania 6 cylinder engine in it.

I did a little checking tonight and if a guy thought the IH DVT-800 was a orphan you ought to check into that Saab-Scania engine. :blink:

You ain't kidding there Doc! We had a customer buy the parts to overhaul his Scandia in his 4890 a while back. He had a he!! of a time w/ that thing. First, the crankcase gasket set was backordered for over a month, so he was out his big tillage tractor. Then, he ended up tearing the heads off multiple times to have machine work done & ended up putting all new valves in it. I'd be scared to even know what the total parts $ amount was, but it had to be more than what the tractor was worth, or d@mn near it. Plus, it's not likew the engine spun a bearing or anything. He just figured he had enough hours on the engine that it was time to tear it down & rebuild it! Geez!

Finally got some price quotes from the local Case dealer.

Oil pump $1100.00

Cam $1200.00

No reman rods available, new ones are $1218.00 / each

No oil coolers available

Standard overhaul parts (valves, guides, springs, seats, sleeves & pistons, bearings, oil pump) was running close to $8000.00

That didn't include a new blower, gaskets, water pump, and a new exhaust manifold....lol

This guy's crank is gone....haven't even been able to find one in a salvage yard yet. NLA from mom. If he needs a set of rods it's only another $7300.00 :wacko:

I shot the guy a guestimate of $12,000.00 to $15,000.00 minimum... assuming we can salvage the rods.

Salvage yard offered him $3500.00 for the tractor as is.

If I was the owner, I'd be more then happy to help them load it up. :P

ooooooooooooooooooooooohhhh think i feel kinda faint :blink:

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OUCH! Sounds like that Case needs to head for the salvage yard, unless you're up for a Cummins swap into a Case, Doc. :unsure:

That would be pretty cool w/ a N14 under the hood!

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OUCH! Sounds like that Case needs to head for the salvage yard, unless you're up for a Cummins swap into a Case, Doc. :unsure:

That would be pretty cool w/ a N14 under the hood!

It wouldn't be so bad (well actually it still would)....

But sure as **** that PS tranny would toss it's cookies the first afternoon back in the field. :(

The Case owner called me a couple days ago about a 4586 he found in Iowa.

I ran down and looked at it, it's sitting on a dealer's lot with a $5000.00 cash price on it.

At first look it's a nice looking tractor yet, good tires (little 20.8X38s) and it doesn't appear to have been abused much.

Talked to the salesman...lol

The tractor has had 4 owners in the last 4 years.

Original owner unloaded it to #2.

#2 owner had to "replace the camshaft because it wore out" right after he bought it....lol and that is all he did to it.

4 months later #2 owner sold it to owner #3 who was in the construction business. He promptly put it on a scraper and proceeded to completely shread the rear drive frame. He ended up replacing everything in the housings including the carrier and axle shafts....lol :blink:

The next winter owner #3 sold it to #4 (because he just didn't have use for it anymore....lol)

Owner #4 bought it as a "investment" and was going to fix it up and resell it to make some money on it....

Yeah right!.... :lol:

When reality hit and #4 discovered the costs involved in "restoring" such a technological wonder (especially after having to pay for a clutch job).....he quickly consigned the tractor to where it sits in splendor today.

After my little exam the high points were I discovered the top pivot bearing is shot, the dropbox shows signs of freeplay in the gears (very bad..), and the clutch is grossly misadjusted (which means whoever put the clutch in didn't know what the #$%^&* they were doing and botched it. Of course there are some oil leaks etc.

Hopefully my buddy (the case owner) has the good sense to leave this thing alone as well.

All of these things that are wrong with this tractor are easy enough for someone like me to fix....but if the new owner would have to pay someone to do it.....he'd have to part with some serious cash.

And on top of it all.....

If the "camshaft wore out" and needed to be replaced....there are other issues as well with that motor.

I've been itching for another project tractor.... :huh:

If I wait another month or so that tractor is pretty much dead property untill next spring.

If the current owner is a "motovated seller" (read hard up for cash)....maybe for $2500.00 or so I can aquire that fine piece of equipment (i.e. rolling chassis) and get a start on a refit project I've been itching to do.

I've got a line on a real nice low mileage 8V92T Detroit that might just look right at home in that engine bay. :o

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Little more on the engine swap thing. Local CaseIH tech and farmer just put an M-11 Cummins in a 4586. No frame stretch, and the correct bell-housing is available. Don't know about the Duty cycle, but I do know the M-11's are used in some construction equipment. He says he likes it. Not overly powerful, but he's not on eggshells the whole time thinking it will blow up.

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Found a 4586 to buy but I don't know much about them. Any notorious problems?

If someone gave you the tractor it would still be a POS. The rest of the tractor cant stay together with the old engine let alone a repower. Hydraulics are poor , AC will not work no matter what you do and you still have one speed to stay in. Cab is noisy and hot and the steering will wear you out. Have I forgot anything

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There are two 4586's with original engines,one real nice looking and good paint on ebay for 4000.00 for choice they are just north of I80 and east part of the state. claim the engines are great,and air conditioning is 100%

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Little more on the engine swap thing. Local CaseIH tech and farmer just put an M-11 Cummins in a 4586. No frame stretch, and the correct bell-housing is available. Don't know about the Duty cycle, but I do know the M-11's are used in some construction equipment. He says he likes it. Not overly powerful, but he's not on eggshells the whole time thinking it will blow up.

at a reasonable h.p. setting of about 280-300 the m-11 will hold up decent . the engine is not one of cummins best designs ,but not the worst thing ever built either . i hated them in our trucks ,maxed out at 370 h.p. ,ate cams ,rocker boxes and heads . figure on a normal consumption of a gallon of oil a day . we did get 500,000 miles out of most of them though .but a m-11 sure is not a n-14 or 60 series detroit. i would like a 4586 with a 60 series in it set @500h.p. ,it would tear up the trans and diffs though.i have wanted a 4366 or 4386 for 20 years , i dont need it but i will have one someday .im just waiting on the right tractor at the right price.

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Little more on the engine swap thing. Local CaseIH tech and farmer just put an M-11 Cummins in a 4586. No frame stretch, and the correct bell-housing is available. Don't know about the Duty cycle, but I do know the M-11's are used in some construction equipment. He says he likes it. Not overly powerful, but he's not on eggshells the whole time thinking it will blow up.

M-11....lol

Nothing like sending a boy to do a man's job. :lol:

Anything over 250hp needs at least 800 cubes or your going to be overhauling it ever 3-5K hours. :)

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Found a 4586 to buy but I don't know much about them. Any notorious problems?

If someone gave you the tractor it would still be a POS. The rest of the tractor cant stay together with the old engine let alone a repower. Hydraulics are poor , AC will not work no matter what you do and you still have one speed to stay in. Cab is noisy and hot and the steering will wear you out. Have I forgot anything

Nope....that pretty much covers every IH tractor made of that era doesn't it?

A dedicated 23gpm pump for aux hydraulics was no slouch in 1978.

AC never seemed to cause that much problems, a decent AC man can certainly make them work as they are exactly the same as the 2wd 86 series ....of course the Micky Mouse Techumseh (sp?) ac pump was a pos to begin with.

And if the AC doesn't work and you have the windows and doors open the cab probably would be hot and noisy :huh:

As far as steering....I've got 3 of them right now, they all steer with one finger in 65F comfort.

just havin' some fun... :)

Doc

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